Rumor: Ray Allen going to Minnesota??

[wdleehi]

This only makes sense as a small part of a bigger trade.  I can't imagine that is the best return the Celtics can get for Ray.  

[Who]

This only makes sense as a small part of a bigger trade.  I can't imagine that is the best return the Celtics can get for Ray.  

What type of return would you expect for Ray Allen?

[Roy H.]

So, how is this Ray for LRidnour and WJohnson and upgrade for now or the future?

It's neither, and Ridnour has two additional years on his contract, so it eats into our cap space, too.  And we're supposed to be giving up a draft pick, as well?

Obviously, it's just a made up sports talk radio rumor.  However, I'm surprised that some Celtics fans seem to be in favor of it.  It's really a pretty bad deal for us.

I really don't see it as a BAD deal for us.  Trades like this may be our only shot at a bright future.  Yeah we take back extra years on Ridnour, but how would you use that money in FA.  It's not looking like K. Love or D. Howard are coming to town and after them this FA pool is pretty shaky.  So instead of letting Ray walk or bringing him back for the short term, we take a chance on a Wesley Johnson.  Sure he hasn't shown too much yet, but he's been on a pretty bad team with bad PG play(until this season).  Rondo and Doc will give Johnson every chance to succeed.  

Johnson and Ridnour take up a combined $8.3 million in cap space next year, and $9.7 million the year after.  We're using 1/6th of our cap on a young player who has looked poor overall (despite a few flashes) and a backup point guard.  In addition, we'd be giving up a #2.

You'd be better off keeping the $8.3 million in space next year, and trading Ray for an expiring contract plus a #1 pick.  Chances are that a random first rounder in next year's draft will outperform Johnson's sub-40% shooting, and that cap space can be used to retain a superior player (somebody in the Jeff Green range, or even Green himself).

So, Green + #1 + not giving up a #2, or Johnson + Ridnour?  I think the first package is clearly superior for a rebuilding team.

[Green 18]

This only makes sense as a small part of a bigger trade.  I can't imagine that is the best return the Celtics can get for Ray.  

What type of return would you expect for Ray Allen?

Starter quality players? Allen is one of the best SG in the league right now & you want to trade him for 2 bench players? Cuz neither one would start in Boston...

[Who]

I liked the trade. I thought it was a good deal.

A quality young player who should be a quality starter in the league for the next 8-10 years and a rotation quality point guard (above average backup PG).

How do you define "quality"?

A solid contributor.

Earlier in the trade I compared him in value to someone like a Marvin Williams or a Nic Batum. Both are quality starter caliber players at the three. Top 20 SFs.

Can defend and rebound his position well. Well able to become a high level defensive player with more experience. Not a shot creator but will play well off of others. Is a very good shooter from the perimeter for a three. Has excellent athleticism and can finish at the rim. Transition play. Cutter. Very good role player in the making.

[clover]

I liked the trade. I thought it was a good deal.

A quality young player who should be a quality starter in the league for the next 8-10 years and a rotation quality point guard (above average backup PG).

How do you define "quality"?

A solid contributor.

Earlier in the trade I compared him in value to someone like a Marvin Williams or a Nic Batum. Both are quality starter caliber players at the three. Top 20 SFs.

Can defend and rebound his position well. Well able to become a high level defensive player with more experience. Not a shot creator but will play well off of others. Is a very good shooter from the perimeter for a three. Has excellent athleticism and can finish at the rim. Transition play. Cutter. Very good role player in the making.

IMO the last thing Danny should be doing right now is filling in 'nice role players' on their salary cap.  It's three All-Stars or bust and he needs to use his space and assets for that.

[Fan from VT]

So, how is this Ray for LRidnour and WJohnson and upgrade for now or the future?

It's neither, and Ridnour has two additional years on his contract, so it eats into our cap space, too.  And we're supposed to be giving up a draft pick, as well?

Obviously, it's just a made up sports talk radio rumor.  However, I'm surprised that some Celtics fans seem to be in favor of it.  It's really a pretty bad deal for us.

I really don't see it as a BAD deal for us.  Trades like this may be our only shot at a bright future.  Yeah we take back extra years on Ridnour, but how would you use that money in FA.  It's not looking like K. Love or D. Howard are coming to town and after them this FA pool is pretty shaky.  So instead of letting Ray walk or bringing him back for the short term, we take a chance on a Wesley Johnson.  Sure he hasn't shown too much yet, but he's been on a pretty bad team with bad PG play(until this season).  Rondo and Doc will give Johnson every chance to succeed.  

i think Gerald Green showed more in his first 2 years than Johnson, and Green was doing it at 18-19 whereas Johnson is stinking up the joint a 23-24. And this year, with a good PG (Rubio/Ridnour platton) he's at a 6.69 PER, a -12.9 in terms of his PER vs. the PER of who he is guarding, and an astounding -13.0 in terms of +/-. That is terrible, in no other words. If we are taking a "risk" for the future, i'd rather risk that Derron Williams and Dwight would want to play with each other enough that we could convince them to sign in Boston and trade Pierce/Rondo for complementary picks and pieces (NJ's complementary pieces look pretty bad, and their picks were dealt to get Derron...Play your cards right and you could have Derron and Dwight deciding between NJ with Morrow, Petro, and maybe Humphries but he might be too expensive or Boston with Doc, 2-4 first round picks, and someone like kevin martin, wes matthews, or milsap) than take on money for Ridnour when we have Rondo, Dooling, Bradley, Moore, with the money significantly limiting our ability to pounce on free agents, for the maybe 1% chance that Johnson suddenly, at 24-25, becomes a completely utterly different player.

[FearTheBeard]

I liked the trade. I thought it was a good deal.

A quality young player who should be a quality starter in the league for the next 8-10 years and a rotation quality point guard (above average backup PG).

How do you define "quality"?

A solid contributor. Not a liability.

Similar in value to someone like a Marvin Williams or a Nic Batum. Should be a top 20 SF.

Can defend and rebound his position well. Well able to become a high level defensive player with more experience. Not a shot creator but will play well off of others. Is a very good shooter from the perimeter for a three. Has excellent athleticism and can finish at the rim. Transition play. Cutter. Very good role player in the making.

Isn't a liability? Wes Johnson shoots 37% this year and 38% for his career. His PER is under 10.his TS% is an abysmal 480. He has NEGATIVE WIN SHARES!

Wes Johnson is one of the biggest busts in the past half decade...at least Thabeet can play okay D in the post.

[hpantazo]

Maybe Wes Johnson is not the right guy for us, but we are not getting young all-stars for any of our big three.

[Roy H.]

I liked the trade. I thought it was a good deal.

A quality young player who should be a quality starter in the league for the next 8-10 years and a rotation quality point guard (above average backup PG).

How do you define "quality"?

A solid contributor. Not a liability.

Similar in value to someone like a Marvin Williams or a Nic Batum. Should be a top 20 SF.

Can defend and rebound his position well. Well able to become a high level defensive player with more experience. Not a shot creator but will play well off of others. Is a very good shooter from the perimeter for a three. Has excellent athleticism and can finish at the rim. Transition play. Cutter. Very good role player in the making.

Theoretically Johnson could reach that level, but he's not close to there yet. 

Right now, Johnson is 313th in the NBA in terms of points per minute.  He ranks 270th in points per possession.  He's 339th in TS%.  Defensively, he's not in the top 100 players in the NBA. 

Wes Johnson right now is a terrible, terrible player.  Maybe there's a bit of potential there, but he hasn't showed it thus far in his career.

[Who]

Folks shouldn't get tied up over Luke Ridnour's contract. He is a tradeable commodity.

The Celtics will have no problem moving him on to another team in the near future and will likely pick up another positive asset or two in the process.

[ChefEricT]

So, how is this Ray for LRidnour and WJohnson and upgrade for now or the future?

It's neither, and Ridnour has two additional years on his contract, so it eats into our cap space, too.  And we're supposed to be giving up a draft pick, as well?

Obviously, it's just a made up sports talk radio rumor.  However, I'm surprised that some Celtics fans seem to be in favor of it.  It's really a pretty bad deal for us.

I really don't see it as a BAD deal for us.  Trades like this may be our only shot at a bright future.  Yeah we take back extra years on Ridnour, but how would you use that money in FA.  It's not looking like K. Love or D. Howard are coming to town and after them this FA pool is pretty shaky.  So instead of letting Ray walk or bringing him back for the short term, we take a chance on a Wesley Johnson.  Sure he hasn't shown too much yet, but he's been on a pretty bad team with bad PG play(until this season).  Rondo and Doc will give Johnson every chance to succeed.  

Johnson and Ridnour take up a combined $8.3 million in cap space next year, and $9.7 million the year after.  We're using 1/6th of our cap on a young player who has looked poor overall (despite a few flashes) and a backup point guard.  In addition, we'd be giving up a #2.

You'd be better off keeping the $8.3 million in space next year, and trading Ray for an expiring contract plus a #1 pick.  Chances are that a random first rounder in next year's draft will outperform Johnson's sub-40% shooting, and that cap space can be used to retain a superior player (somebody in the Jeff Green range, or even Green himself).

So, Green + #1 + not giving up a #2, or Johnson + Ridnour?  I think the first package is clearly superior for a rebuilding team.

Who would give us a 1st rounder for Ray at this point?  Maybe a very late first round pick.  Green is as big a question mark at this point as Johnson.  Johnson was a high first round pick.  

I'm not saying this is an awesome trade scenario, but it's not terrible either.  I love the big three and appreciate all that they've done, but I think that they get extremely over valued around here too.  If this is the best we can get for Ray, then it's not so bad.  If we can do better, I trust that Danny will do so.

[Roy H.]

[Jeff] Green is as big a question mark at this point as Johnson.  

Agree to disagree, I guess.  Jeff Green has had a quality NBA career.  Wes Johnson has been absolute garbage.  They're not equivalent, at all.

[wdleehi]

Folks shouldn't get tied up over Luke Ridnour's contract. He is a tradeable commodity.

The Celtics will have no problem moving him on to another team in the near future and will likely pick up another positive asset or two in the process.

I agree with that, but I don't see the value to make up for Johnson. 


Either it is part of a bigger trade or a plant rumor to lower Ray's trade value.  (or of course, a trade machine rumor)

[hpantazo]

[Jeff] Green is as big a question mark at this point as Johnson.  

Agree to disagree, I guess.  Jeff Green has had a quality NBA career.  Wes Johnson has been absolute garbage.  They're not equivalent, at all.

I agree. Jeff Green is a proven commodity, Wes Johnson is a total gamble at this point. Green is expected to return at full strength next year.