Wojnarowski Article. Is Pierce getting traded?

[slamtheking]

I know why they shouldn't make the trade, but part of me thinks Golden State would entertain a trade for Pierce.

The real question is who/what is coming back.

Monta: Pass, Curry/Lee: I'm listening.

gsw wouldn't give up Curry for CP3, no way they give him up for a 35 year old PP . Same goes for Ellis. Makes no sense for GSW.

The only trades that make sense are

Den sends: JR Smith or Chandler s+t and Miller(expiring)
Bos sends: PP and Dooling

Por sends: Wallace or Batum and Camby,Filler
Bos sends: PP, JO

Those teams make the most sense to me and are pretty fair trades I think.

Ya, Portland I keep circling back to, but if they're making a move for Pierce I don't think they could possibly surrender Camby.

Maybe Batum, Oden and a pick for Pierce?

Money doesn't match.  Oden makes like 2 million. 

pas vrai. Oden's cap is 6 or so or something from the qualifying offer.

His cap hold might have been, but his cap hit is $1.5 million, and that would be the salary in any trade.  Instead of signing the QO, they renegotiated a 1 year deal.

the Portland deal is the most intriguing IF (and it's a big IF) Oden is in the deal AND he can pass a physical.  If Portland is willing to do that, the matching of monies can be worked out with some pieces.

[StartOrien]

Blast, so in order to make a Portland trade work you're looking at:

Wallace & Crawford (maybe a first too cuz they both expire)

for

Pierce & Pietrus.

That's a tough call for everyone involved.

------

-I'm assuming that Portland would need Pietrus b/c they've got limited depth at the wing
-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

[Chris]

I know why they shouldn't make the trade, but part of me thinks Golden State would entertain a trade for Pierce.

The real question is who/what is coming back.

Monta: Pass, Curry/Lee: I'm listening.

gsw wouldn't give up Curry for CP3, no way they give him up for a 35 year old PP . Same goes for Ellis. Makes no sense for GSW.

The only trades that make sense are

Den sends: JR Smith or Chandler s+t and Miller(expiring)
Bos sends: PP and Dooling

Por sends: Wallace or Batum and Camby,Filler
Bos sends: PP, JO

Those teams make the most sense to me and are pretty fair trades I think.

Ya, Portland I keep circling back to, but if they're making a move for Pierce I don't think they could possibly surrender Camby.

Maybe Batum, Oden and a pick for Pierce?

Money doesn't match.  Oden makes like 2 million. 

pas vrai. Oden's cap is 6 or so or something from the qualifying offer.

His cap hold might have been, but his cap hit is $1.5 million, and that would be the salary in any trade.  Instead of signing the QO, they renegotiated a 1 year deal.

the Portland deal is the most intriguing IF (and it's a big IF) Oden is in the deal AND he can pass a physical.  If Portland is willing to do that, the matching of monies can be worked out with some pieces.

How can it be?  They would have to include Camby, Matthews, Wallace, or Felton.  All guys could be traded for Pierce, but none of them would be throw-ins, because they are big parts of their team.

And there is absolutely no benefit to the C's trading for Oden.  He is an unrestricted free agent next summer, when the C's have cap space, and if he is traded, he loses his Bird Rights, because he is playing on a 1 year deal (he would have bird rights in Portland, because he has been on their roster for more than 3 years).

So, the C's would have no more right to Oden this offseason than they would if they don't trade for him.  And since he isn't playing this year, there is zero value there.

[Chris]

-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

I actually think Danny would love Matthews.  He is very productive on a very good team, and paid below market value for his production.  He may not be a superstar, but he would absolutely help with rebuilding. 

[StartOrien]

-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

I actually think Danny would love Matthews.  He is very productive on a very good team, and paid below market value for his production.  He may not be a superstar, but he would absolutely help with rebuilding. 

But in this theoretical trade, you're then sacrificing the ability to sign 2 max players if you take on Matthews.

[Chris]

-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

I actually think Danny would love Matthews.  He is very productive on a very good team, and paid below market value for his production.  He may not be a superstar, but he would absolutely help with rebuilding. 

But in this theoretical trade, you're then sacrificing the ability to sign 2 max players if you take on Matthews.

True.  But I don't think there are 2 max players to sign.  So, you take what you can get.  You would be coming close to replacing Pierce's production at half the price.  That would be hard to turn down.

[StartOrien]

-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

I actually think Danny would love Matthews.  He is very productive on a very good team, and paid below market value for his production.  He may not be a superstar, but he would absolutely help with rebuilding. 

But in this theoretical trade, you're then sacrificing the ability to sign 2 max players if you take on Matthews.

True.  But I don't think there are 2 max players to sign.  So, you take what you can get.  You would be coming close to replacing Pierce's production at half the price.  That would be hard to turn down.

I think you're better off taking your chances then having that money tied up in Matthews & Rondo. My fear there is that you're starting a rebuilding project destined for mediocrity, though I guess both players could be moved after.

[Chris]

-I'm also assuming that there's no way Danny takes on Wes Matthews' contract (Matthews may be worth that much now, but certainly not for a rebuilding team).

I actually think Danny would love Matthews.  He is very productive on a very good team, and paid below market value for his production.  He may not be a superstar, but he would absolutely help with rebuilding.  

But in this theoretical trade, you're then sacrificing the ability to sign 2 max players if you take on Matthews.

True.  But I don't think there are 2 max players to sign.  So, you take what you can get.  You would be coming close to replacing Pierce's production at half the price.  That would be hard to turn down.

I think you're better off taking your chances then having that money tied up in Matthews & Rondo. My fear there is that you're starting a rebuilding project destined for mediocrity, though I guess both players could be moved after.

That's the key.  If they have a use for the cap space, Rondo and Matthews can not only be moved easily, they can both be moved for positive value.  

I completely understand the argument of maximizing cap space to get superstars, but that has such a miniscule chance of happening, you need to have a backup plan.  And when you can get guys who are young, underpaid, and productive, you need to take them over cap space, and in a worst case scenario, you just include them in a sign and trade for the guy you are signing anyways.  

You just don't want to compromise the cap space with bad contracts, but value players are never bad to have, because they can always be moved very easily if you are so inclined.

[Neurotic Guy]

I tried to get through the 10 pages of the thread, but gave up.  Hopefully, I am not being redundant in my reaction.

Assuming that the decision is made to go all-in on the future:

Loyalty, Shmoyalty. 

If the C's get the right value, trade him. I hope -- because I've loved watching him play -- that Pierce goes to a contender (and I think he'd rather play his last years on a contender rather than in a rebuilding project), but the key is getting the right mix of young prospects, draft picks, financial considerations.  I'd take the right trade from any team.

I loved the 1st big 3 as much (if not more) than the current big 3, but I guarantee that if a trade of LB, KM, and/or Chief, had resulted in sustained prominence and a couple more championships (rather than the ensuing 20 year drought), we all be thrilled that we made the moves.  And the old big 3 would be just as important to Celtic history as they are now (and just as involved with the organization as they are now).

[goCeltics]

think the rockets or jazz are the best trading partners,

with rockets

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=89g48ng

with jazz

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lzlc42

i think the probable suspects that are calling danny are most probably these two as danny know mchale and morey very well, and because of his faith he probably has alot of contacts in the utah organization. 

[JBcat]

I really hate the idea of trading Pierce, but if we did the playoff teams with young prospects I would be interested in would be;  

Philly.  Philly could desperately use a go to scorer and they have some nice young talent.   Maybe a deal centered around us getting Evan Turner with other pieces such as Young.

Indiana-Granger and George or Hansbrough for Pierce and maybe 1 or 2 of our young guys.

Atlanta-I think Horford rather Smith fits better for the Celtic type of personality we would like to have.  Plus it's lost year for Horford and Atlanta might be more willing to trade him than Smith this year.  So a deal centered around Horford.

Utah could be a good trading partner.  We could take 1 or 2 out of their big guys Jefferson, Millisap, Kanter, or Favors.  Gordon Hayward is a decent young prospect too.  

So much can happen between now and the trade deadline.   The offers would get better then too.

If Pierce was traded I would expect a domino effect of even some of our role players such as Bass, JO, Wilcox, Pietrus, Daniels, and Dooling being traded to contending teams.

However we could be in the thick of the playoff race by the trade deadline, and I doubt Danny would pull the trigger on a trade with Pierce if that were the case.  

 

[Kane3387]

I just can't picture Pierce playing in another team's uniform. It would be so weird if we traded him.

[LooseCannon]

The time to trade Pierce, if he should be traded, might be after the 2012-2013 season and before June 30, 2013, to a team that wants to shed salary and acquire Pierce so that it can waive him before the June 30 deadline when his final year becomes fully guaranteed.  (But if traded and waived, Pierce can't re-sign with the Celtics until one year after the trade.)  The Celtics can bring back over $22 million in salary under the new trade rules if they are not a luxury tax-paying team, so some other team could be saving $17 million in salary, plus over $25 million in luxury tax with the more punitive new structure.

It's more likely that the other team would see something more like $25-30 million rather than $40+ million in one-year savings (not considering luxury tax savings in future years), but if there is a non-contender well over the luxury tax threshold in blow-it-up mode, that level of savings might make Pierce and a likely late first-round pick or two more attractive than a big expiring contract and a middle first-round pick if someone wants to blow up a team and get rid of an aging superstar.

[chambers]

think the rockets or jazz are the best trading partners,

with rockets

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=89g48ng

with jazz

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lzlc42

i think the probable suspects that are calling danny are most probably these two as danny know mchale and morey very well, and because of his faith he probably has alot of contacts in the utah organization. 

Not to be rude, but do you seriously think the Rockets or Jazz would take a second look at those proposals?
Giving up 75% of their young talent for some old guys?
Why would we want all that mediocre young talent?
Probably better off trading into the draft rather than playing these mid level young guys for 3-4 years.

[goCeltics]

think the rockets or jazz are the best trading partners,

with rockets

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=89g48ng

with jazz

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6lzlc42

i think the probable suspects that are calling danny are most probably these two as danny know mchale and morey very well, and because of his faith he probably has alot of contacts in the utah organization. 

Not to be rude, but do you seriously think the Rockets or Jazz would take a second look at those proposals?
Giving up 75% of their young talent for some old guys?
Why would we want all that mediocre young talent?
Probably better off trading into the draft rather than playing these mid level young guys for 3-4 years.

in the first deal the rockets they are getting pierce and o'neal for hill, lee and budigner, fair trade i say, it leaves the rockets with a starting five of pierce, scola, dalember, lowry and martin and a bench of parsons, patterson, o'neal and dragic that could contend in the west.

thabeet,flynn and williams are just salary filler/expiring contracts, they have no value, so what % of the rockets "young talent" doesn't really matter.

second trade is al and hayward for pierce and allen, bit more ambitious but jazz have favors and kantor and al taking all the shots and minutes inside is a barrier to their development.

jazz would end up with lineup of pierce/howard favors/millsap, o'neal/kantor, harris/watson and allen/burks that could possibly contend in the west, maybe.

When rebuilding you better off with youth and potential, if there medicore that's not the worse thing cos that can net you a higher pick.