Celtics/Hawks trade idea (Josh Smith to C's)

[wdleehi]

Joe Johnson is a contract you don't come back from: 4 years, $90 mil left on that contract once this year is through. 

As for Josh Smith, last year Gerald Wallace was obtained for Joel Przybilla's expiring, a low-level prospect (Dante Cunningham) and a couple of mid-to-late first-rounders.  Certainly Charlotte was in a different situation than Atlanta, but Smith shouldn't be too much more expensive. 

I could see JO, Bass and both of our 2012 picks doing the trick.  Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Smith/KG with Daniels/Pietrus/Wilcox/Stiemsma off the bench would be an intriguing team. 

What would you think if the C's traded Rondo for JO, Bass, and 2 late first round picks?

Rondo's an all-star PG locked up on a bargain deal for 4 years.

Josh Smith is a good but not great swing forward who is overpaid by a few million per.  There's a significant difference.

Again, I point to Gerald Wallace, an athletic swing forward of similar value in a similar contract situation who got traded for Przybilla's expiring contract (equivalent to JO), Dante Cunningham (low-level prospect, inferior to Bass) and two first rounders that project to be on par with our 2012 first rounders. 

Gerald Wallace is 4 years older than Josh Smith, was on a team that wasn't the 5th seed in the East (and coming off a playoff series victory), who doesn't block shots, who doesn't pass, etc.

Josh Smith is a significantly better all around player than Gerald Wallace. 

Not to mention Wallace is still probably one more concussion from retiring. 


Smith is a on a team with talent.

The Bobcats had no talent, just older, long term contract players.

[Chris]

Joe Johnson is a contract you don't come back from: 4 years, $90 mil left on that contract once this year is through. 

As for Josh Smith, last year Gerald Wallace was obtained for Joel Przybilla's expiring, a low-level prospect (Dante Cunningham) and a couple of mid-to-late first-rounders.  Certainly Charlotte was in a different situation than Atlanta, but Smith shouldn't be too much more expensive. 

I could see JO, Bass and both of our 2012 picks doing the trick.  Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Smith/KG with Daniels/Pietrus/Wilcox/Stiemsma off the bench would be an intriguing team. 

What would you think if the C's traded Rondo for JO, Bass, and 2 late first round picks?

Rondo's an all-star PG locked up on a bargain deal for 4 years.

Josh Smith is a good but not great swing forward who is overpaid by a few million per.  There's a significant difference.

Again, I point to Gerald Wallace, an athletic swing forward of similar value in a similar contract situation who got traded for Przybilla's expiring contract (equivalent to JO), Dante Cunningham (low-level prospect, inferior to Bass) and two first rounders that project to be on par with our 2012 first rounders. 

The difference is, the Hawks are one of the better teams in the league so far this year, and are built for this short season, while the Bobcats had bottomed out, and were starved for assets.

The Hawks would not only be giving up a quality player for 50 cents on the dollar (who I don't believe is overpaid BTW), but they would also be giving up the chance for greater playoff revenue in a market that has a lot of trouble drawing crowds.

Now, this summer, I think Smith would be a legitimate target to trade for using our cap space and some assets.  But this year, I just do not think it is going to happen.  

  

[snively]

Joe Johnson is a contract you don't come back from: 4 years, $90 mil left on that contract once this year is through. 

As for Josh Smith, last year Gerald Wallace was obtained for Joel Przybilla's expiring, a low-level prospect (Dante Cunningham) and a couple of mid-to-late first-rounders.  Certainly Charlotte was in a different situation than Atlanta, but Smith shouldn't be too much more expensive. 

I could see JO, Bass and both of our 2012 picks doing the trick.  Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Smith/KG with Daniels/Pietrus/Wilcox/Stiemsma off the bench would be an intriguing team. 

What would you think if the C's traded Rondo for JO, Bass, and 2 late first round picks?

Rondo's an all-star PG locked up on a bargain deal for 4 years.

Josh Smith is a good but not great swing forward who is overpaid by a few million per.  There's a significant difference.

Again, I point to Gerald Wallace, an athletic swing forward of similar value in a similar contract situation who got traded for Przybilla's expiring contract (equivalent to JO), Dante Cunningham (low-level prospect, inferior to Bass) and two first rounders that project to be on par with our 2012 first rounders. 

Gerald Wallace is 4 years older than Josh Smith, was on a team that wasn't the 5th seed in the East (and coming off a playoff series victory), who doesn't block shots, who doesn't pass, etc.

Josh Smith is a significantly better all around player than Gerald Wallace. 

Eh, Gerald Wallace was also a little cheaper, a better man defender (Smith is a little lost between the 3 and 4 - vulnerable man defender at both spots, while Gerald Wallace is excellent at the 3 and vulnerable at the 4) and a better scorer/shooter.  He was also 28 at the time of the trade, only two years older than Josh is now.

The team situations are different, but I'm not sure how much that affects trade value.  Lamar Odom got dumped from a contending team for a TE and a protected 1st rounder.  Playoff-bound OKC sent Jeff Green and Krstic and what looked to be a good pick for an injured Perk and Nate's negative value contract. 

[Eddie20]

Joe Johnson is a contract you don't come back from: 4 years, $90 mil left on that contract once this year is through. 

As for Josh Smith, last year Gerald Wallace was obtained for Joel Przybilla's expiring, a low-level prospect (Dante Cunningham) and a couple of mid-to-late first-rounders.  Certainly Charlotte was in a different situation than Atlanta, but Smith shouldn't be too much more expensive. 

I could see JO, Bass and both of our 2012 picks doing the trick.  Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Smith/KG with Daniels/Pietrus/Wilcox/Stiemsma off the bench would be an intriguing team. 

What would you think if the C's traded Rondo for JO, Bass, and 2 late first round picks?

Rondo's an all-star PG locked up on a bargain deal for 4 years.

Josh Smith is a good but not great swing forward who is overpaid by a few million per.  There's a significant difference.

Again, I point to Gerald Wallace, an athletic swing forward of similar value in a similar contract situation who got traded for Przybilla's expiring contract (equivalent to JO), Dante Cunningham (low-level prospect, inferior to Bass) and two first rounders that project to be on par with our 2012 first rounders. 

Good comparison with Wallace/Smith. However, Allen was an All-Star last year, is playing at the same level this season, and is obviously much better than Pryz.

I have no idea what Smith has done for people here to overrate him so much. "Hang up the phone" is very farfetched. Trades aren't simply done because of X's and O's. Atlanta is trying to sell it's team and surely a lesser payroll could make that more intriguing to a prospective buyer. Plus, Smith is hardly "untouchable". He has been rumored in trades for the past year or so.

So before you scoff at the idea let's remember the following article written just 6 months ago:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_josh_smith_hawks_nba_draft_062011

The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith, and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him.

“The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic.

There’s been growing acrimony between Smith and the organization, sources said, largely because of the feeling that Smith has been too convenient of a scapegoat. Smith had one of his most complete seasons for the Hawks, averaging 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists.

Payroll is an issue for the Hawks, too, and Smith’s contract – which has two years and $25.6 million remaining – is an attractive target for management to unload, if, for no other reason, than the five years, $110 million left on Joe Johnson’s deal is far more difficult to move.

The Hawks have looked to identify veteran players near the end of their contracts, sources said, but have had no serious discussions on trading Smith.

“They’re looking for a change,” one Eastern Conference executive said. “They would die to be rid of Joe Johnson’s contract or move Smith, but they won’t give away. They want something in return.”

Dwight Howard has been a proponent of the Magic trying to make a deal for Smith, a childhood friend, but general manager Otis Smith is low on assets. Houston has long been intrigued with Smith, but like Orlando and New Jersey, also probably doesn’t have the right pieces to make a trade. Hawks GM Rick Sund has long coveted Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen- two aging Celtics entering the final years of contracts – but Celtics GM Danny Ainge has yet to show an inclination to break up his core for next season.

[2short]

Smith at pf running next to rondo would be something to see.  But is he that much better than bass, really?

[snively]

Joe Johnson is a contract you don't come back from: 4 years, $90 mil left on that contract once this year is through. 

As for Josh Smith, last year Gerald Wallace was obtained for Joel Przybilla's expiring, a low-level prospect (Dante Cunningham) and a couple of mid-to-late first-rounders.  Certainly Charlotte was in a different situation than Atlanta, but Smith shouldn't be too much more expensive. 

I could see JO, Bass and both of our 2012 picks doing the trick.  Rondo/Ray/Pierce/Smith/KG with Daniels/Pietrus/Wilcox/Stiemsma off the bench would be an intriguing team. 

What would you think if the C's traded Rondo for JO, Bass, and 2 late first round picks?

Rondo's an all-star PG locked up on a bargain deal for 4 years.

Josh Smith is a good but not great swing forward who is overpaid by a few million per.  There's a significant difference.

Again, I point to Gerald Wallace, an athletic swing forward of similar value in a similar contract situation who got traded for Przybilla's expiring contract (equivalent to JO), Dante Cunningham (low-level prospect, inferior to Bass) and two first rounders that project to be on par with our 2012 first rounders. 

The difference is, the Hawks are one of the better teams in the league so far this year, and are built for this short season, while the Bobcats had bottomed out, and were starved for assets.

The Hawks would not only be giving up a quality player for 50 cents on the dollar (who I don't believe is overpaid BTW), but they would also be giving up the chance for greater playoff revenue in a market that has a lot of trouble drawing crowds.

Now, this summer, I think Smith would be a legitimate target to trade for using our cap space and some assets.  But this year, I just do not think it is going to happen. 

 

I'd agree that the TE plus picks would probably be a more appealing offer to Atlanta.  Give them a chance to add some young, low-cost talent and eventually find a quality veteran with the TE. 

I do think posters here are placing more value than is warranted on Josh Smith.  A nice rim protector, a mobile and versatile team defender with an intriguing combination of play-making and finishing skills, but a vulnerable man defender, an inefficient scorer in Atlanta's system and a very questionable decision maker.

[PosImpos]

Smith at pf running next to rondo would be something to see.  But is he that much better than bass, really?

Yes, absolutely, yes.

[2short]

Smith at pf running next to rondo would be something to see.  But is he that much better than bass, really?

Yes, absolutely, yes.

shot blocking is a huge difference but I for one am still waiting for josh smith to suddenly figure "it" all out and become a dominate player
figure in his stats and contract, so far this year there isn't a big difference in numbers (statwise) to bass

[Tradetime]

Boston Receives:

Josh Smith
Zaza Pachulia


Atlanta Receives

Ray Allen
Chris Wilcox


Why for Boston?

Smith immediately increases our lack of athletic ability. He could start at the 3 (moving Pierce to the 2), or he could start at the 4 (moving KG to the 5 and inserting Pietrus at the 2 for better shooting). Him and Rondo are close friends and their on-court chemistry, particularly on breaks, will pay immediate dividends.

Smith on Rondo:

"He's one of my close friends," Smith said. "If I tell him anything [personal], it won't get out. We talk about everything. He's like one of my brothers. He would fight for me just like I would fight for him

Pachulia, although not a fan favorite in Boston, will bring some toughness and physical play to a team that has been lacking it since Perk was traded. He can rebound, runs the floor well for a big, and will get under the skin of opponents.

This summer looks bleak in terms of landing a big name FA. Instead the summer of 13 looks much more promising when some major players (Love, Gordon, etc.) won't have the restricted tag attached to their name. So the key would be to add players, like Smith and Pachulia, that have contracts that expire in 2013. We can get a close look at Smith, which allows to make a better decision on whether or not he's a building block for the future, while not compromising cap space going forward.

This also gives us a complimentary piece to Rondo and the fast pace team Ainge looks to be trying to build. Smith, Green (if health permits), & Rondo could be a devastating trio in transition.

Why not for Boston?

Losing Allen could be a major locker room problem. On the court, his shooting created space. Not having him around would definitely hurt spacing.

Why for Atlanta?

Allen brings to the Hawks something they seem to have lacked for some time, veteran leadership and player that can space the floor for Joe Johnson and Al Horford.

Both Allen and Wilcox have expiring contracts, so the Hawks would be shedding approximately 17.2 million in salary for next season. This is important for a team that was nearly sold in November. The smaller payroll makes it much more likely for a prospective owner to buy the team.

Smith has been on the block for some and seems as though the feeling is mutual:

 Adrian Wojnarowski:

Josh Smith hasn’t changed his mind on a future with his hometown Atlanta Hawks: He believes he’s probably run his course with Atlanta. Without an owner committed to making the changes to push this team past its second-round Eastern Conference ceiling, sources said he’d still welcome the team putting him into a trade.

Why not for Atlanta?

Allen is a FA and there is no certainty that he will re-sign with the Hawks. This could be a major obstacle for Atlanta since, save for cap space, they would have nothing to show for trading away Smith.


NOTE:

This trade cannot be completed until after March 1st because of Wilcox's deal

Would rather this be Garnett for Smith and Teague. KG has lost a step on Defense, and no longer protects the basket the way he did even in comparison to last year. He looked back on track last year; this year he looks spent.

Futhermore, Ray has been our best offensive option. He keeps himself in immortal shape.


With the surprising defense of Stiemmsma, we'd have two guys that could protect the rim the majority of the time.

In an era when Pau Gasol and Gerald Wallace get flipped for next to nothing, I say Atlanta shows great interest in this deal. Smith clearly no longer wishes to be there, and would be a great fast break option with Rondo.

[snively]

Smith at pf running next to rondo would be something to see.  But is he that much better than bass, really?

Bass is the better complementary offensive player - much better spot-up jump-shooter and free throw shooter, sticks within his limits - and a similar rebounder/man defender at the 4.  He has none of Josh Smith's play-making ability as a quick 4, he's nowhere near the transition threat Smith is (either by creating transition opportunities with blocks/steals, leading them with the dribble or finishing them) and he's far less of shot-deterrent around the rim.

[Swoopz]

Smith at pf running next to rondo would be something to see.  But is he that much better than bass, really?

Last three games for J Smoove: 26, 6 reb, 4 assists, 3 steals
25 pts 5 reb 5 assists, 6  blks, 4 steals
23 pts 13 reb, 2 blocks, 3 steals

My favorite stat? 1-1 for 3s

I highly doubt that he will be able to keep up these kind of numbers but it shows you the potential he has. I imagine a team with both Rondo and Smith would be either amazing and really fun to watch or amazingly frustrating with both missing every free throw, depending on the night.

[CelticG1]

The hawks obviously laugh and ask us to throw in our whole team , a few banners, and 1 billion dollars.......i mean come on its Josh freaking Smith!! He is a pretty good to good player in this league!

[Celticjay]

Josh for Ray and a filler isn't a bad idea.  Before we landed Pietrus it would have made NO sense now I think it is doable and it would bring some life and energy to this team which badly needs it.  

I could see Dwight being much more interested in the prospect of playing with Rondo and JSMITH with possibly Jeff green in there.  That would be a dynamic and crazy athletic team.  I think we need to make a trade as the cap space isn't going to be enough and our team won't look that attractive to top FA's with Rondo and only an aging pierce..

Next Year's starting 5

DHoward
JSMith
Jeff Green
Michael Pietrus
Rondo.

Realistic Squad
Kaman
JSmith
JGreen
Michael Pietrus
Rondo

Bench
Pierce,KG, Bass, and rookies..

[Eddie20]

The hawks obviously laugh and ask us to throw in our whole team , a few banners, and 1 billion dollars.......i mean come on its Josh freaking Smith!! He is a pretty good to good player in this league!

For the laughter...

The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith, and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him.

“The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic.

There’s been growing acrimony between Smith and the organization, sources said, largely because of the feeling that Smith has been too convenient of a scapegoat. Smith had one of his most complete seasons for the Hawks, averaging 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists.

Payroll is an issue for the Hawks, too, and Smith’s contract – which has two years and $25.6 million remaining – is an attractive target for management to unload, if, for no other reason, than the five years, $110 million left on Joe Johnson’s deal is far more difficult to move.

The Hawks have looked to identify veteran players near the end of their contracts, sources said, but have had no serious discussions on trading Smith.

“They’re looking for a change,” one Eastern Conference executive said. “They would die to be rid of Joe Johnson’s contract or move Smith, but they won’t give away. They want something in return.”

Dwight Howard has been a proponent of the Magic trying to make a deal for Smith, a childhood friend, but general manager Otis Smith is low on assets. Houston has long been intrigued with Smith, but like Orlando and New Jersey, also probably doesn’t have the right pieces to make a trade. Hawks GM Rick Sund has long coveted Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen- two aging Celtics entering the final years of contracts – but Celtics GM Danny Ainge has yet to show an inclination to break up his core for next season.

[pearljammer10]

Atlanta laughs and hangs up the phone.

And then they continue laughing