Rubio > Rondo, right?

[dark_lord]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

[jarufu]

Rubio's been playing professional basketball since he was, what, 8 years old?  I think what you're seeing is Rubio the player that just left Spain to a lockout-shortened training camp (I haven't watched the game yet). 

I think that the next question is whether the Euroleague Rubio can translate (or up) his game to the NBA .. i.e: are you looking, now, at Rubio's ceiling as a player or is their another step-change to come once he settles into the NBA ..

I think I'd waive any comparisons for a while yet ..

[Greenbean]

Looking at the numbers Rubio is better than Rondo now at a younger age...essentially

I get the sense that you're just trying to bait people, but I'll bite:  what numbers are you talking about?  Certainly not points, assists, or overall shooting percentage.

He's a better free throw shooter, and a better three point shooter.  Those are the only numbers where he's really better than Rondo right now.

I'm getting a little tired of people's jedi senses tuned to bait whenever I disagree. Math is math. 

This is pretty textbook baiting.  I ask for numbers to back up what you're talking about, and you respond "math is math"? 

The only equivalent between math and this thread:  they both rely upon imaginary numbers.

Oh fine. Open the textbook to page one.

In a small sample size, which should logically be the hardest time of his career he hits threes at about 3 times the rate, hits free throws faaaarrrr more efficiently, has similar rebs and steals in less minutes (which makes sense because he's taller) has a couple blocks (also possibly because he's taller) per 36 minutes is only 1 assist less, and is doing it all on the Timberwolves instead of with 3 hall of famers and a former all star point guard for a coach like Rondo has.

Then there's the whole part about how Rondo definitely didn't have stats like this his rookie year

Isn't it widely accepted that when stars come together individual stats go down?

Yeah...see Rondo's first three games this year with no Pierce.

[DavorCroatiaFan]

I was for a potential trade Rubio & Love for Rondo and first even before Rubio's first NBA game. I think its basically because US fans are maybe surprised with Rubio, but we in Europe knew what kind of player is he.

[Moranis]

rubio is not on rondos level....at least not now. 

true, but I'd make the trade.

[Celtics18]

Rubio's a special player.  That was a thrilling performance he put on against Derrick Rose and the Bulls last night. 

Welcome to the NBA.  He's looking like he'll get the Rickey of the Year award for sure. 

[mmmmm]

The only thing it proves is that Rondo has been put in a winning situation and has been able to fill a significant role on a championship team.  Rubio has not yet had such an opportunity.  It's impossible to say whether or not he would rise to such an occasion.

What we can say is that Rubio is putting up excellent numbers and showing great poise and feel for the game as a rookie.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the same point in his career Rondo could not do the same things that Rondo is doing. 

As I've already said, I don't think Rubio is a better player than Rondo right now, but I don't think it's silly to say that they are very similar players who produce in similar ways.  Rubio happens to be better earlier in his career than Rondo was (more NBA-ready, you could say), and he's already a considerably better shooter.

Just as we cannot know how great Rubio might be playing if the team around him suddenly transformed itself into the 2007-2008 Celtics, we also cannot know how much better Rondo's performance might have been in 2006-2007 if the team around him suddenly transformed itself into the 2011-2012 T-Wolves.

This Minnesota team is miles ahead in talent over the historic wreck that the 2006-2007 Celtics were.  Jeezus, folks - that team lost 58 games!!!!  We have no way of knowing how Rubio might have fared if placed in that context.

All we can say is that

1) Right now Rubio is posting excellent numbers for a rookie on a good T-Wolves team.
2) His numbers still trail what Rondo is putting up at the moment for the Celtics.
3) Rondo has been amazingly consistent in posting overall value numbers every season since his rookie year. 

The last bit is important because it is a bit disingenuous to dismiss Rondo's accomplishments based on the fact that he has played with "three Hall of Famers".  The fact is that NONE of the 'Big 3' are anywhere near the dominant players that they were in their individual peaks and all of them peaked well before they came into Rondo's world.

What they are is 3 still extremely good veteran players who complement each other (and Rondo) to a level far above the sum of their parts.   Of the four, Rondo is the one who is young enough to still grow his game and a significant aspect of his game has been to maximize the offensive results of his teammates even as their raw physical talents may be declining.  Rondo is a critical part of why Ray and Paul, in their mid-thirties were able to post career highs in shooting percentages last year.

Rubio may end up being a far better player than Rondo.  But he has a long way to go before we'll be able to say that for sure.  And Rondo is still young and improving his own game.

[Celtics18]

When Rajon Rondo entered this league, he didn't come in with the talent and polish of the higher drafted guards like Paul, Rose, Williams, and now Rubio.  This is one of the things I like so much about him.  Rondo is one of those rare players who has significantly improved his game while being an NBA player.  He's worked his way to becoming one of the top players in the league over the past five seasons.

Based on his history of getting better, I don't think our point guard is quite done improving yet. 

I love that he's in that mix with a very good group of young point guards currently playing in this league.

I say bring it on.  I welcome new stars at the point guard position who will give Rajon people to compete against for the next ten years.  I just hope he spends those years in Celtics green.

Rubio's a special player, Derrick Rose is a special player, Chris Paul is a special player, and most importantly for me, Rajon Rondo is a special player.

[kozlodoev]

When Rajon Rondo entered this league, he didn't come in with the talent and polish of the higher drafted guards like Paul, Rose, Williams, and now Rubio.  This is one of the things I like so much about him.  Rondo is one of those rare players who has significantly improved his game while being an NBA player.  He's worked his way to becoming one of the top players in the league over the past five seasons.

Based on his history of getting better, I don't think our point guard is quite done improving yet.  

This argument suffers from a fallacy of composition. It's obviously easier to significantly improve your game when you have significant flaws.

[Celtics18]

When Rajon Rondo entered this league, he didn't come in with the talent and polish of the higher drafted guards like Paul, Rose, Williams, and now Rubio.  This is one of the things I like so much about him.  Rondo is one of those rare players who has significantly improved his game while being an NBA player.  He's worked his way to becoming one of the top players in the league over the past five seasons.

Based on his history of getting better, I don't think our point guard is quite done improving yet. 

I love that he's in that mix with a very good group of young point guards currently playing in this league.

I say bring it on.  I welcome new stars at the point guard position who will give Rajon people to compete against for the next ten years.  I just hope he spends those years in Celtics green.

Rubio's a special player, Derrick Rose is a special player, Chris Paul is a special player, and most importantly for me, Rajon Rondo is a special player.

This argument suffers from a fallacy of composition. It's obviously easier to significantly improve your game when you have significant flaws.

Name five current NBA players without flaws. 

[greenpride32]

The last bit is important because it is a bit disingenuous to dismiss Rondo's accomplishments based on the fact that he has played with "three Hall of Famers".  The fact is that NONE of the 'Big 3' are anywhere near the dominant players that they were in their individual peaks and all of them peaked well before they came into Rondo's world.

I'll agree the big three are not as dominant as they were before.  But in their 4 years together here, I believe they have made 11 out of 12 possible All Star teams amongst them (with Ray not being selected one year).  So yes Rondo is playing on a stacked team.  What you say would be true if it were guys like AI or Vince Carter who used to be All Stars in their earlier years, but are no longer.

[kozlodoev]

Name five current NBA players without flaws.

That has nothing to do with the case in point. When you come in the league as a more polished player, it's by default harder to improve than when you come in as a seriously flawed player.

I'll give you a simple example: it's much easier to improve your FT% from .600 to .700 than it is to improve from .900 to 1.000. This general principle applies for other areas that are not necessarily as easy to quantify as well.

Just because Rondo has a history of progress (which is commendable in and of itself, because many players come into the league flawed and stay flawed), this doesn't mean he's not done improving. His improvement curve has leveled off quite a bit in recent seasons.

[BballTim]

Name five current NBA players without flaws.

That has nothing to do with the case in point. When you come in the league as a more polished player, it's by default harder to improve than when you come in as a seriously flawed player.

I'll give you a simple example: it's much easier to improve your FT% from .600 to .700 than it is to improve from .900 to 1.000. This general principle applies for other areas that are not necessarily as easy to quantify as well.

Just because Rondo has a history of progress (which is commendable in and of itself, because many players come into the league flawed and stay flawed), this doesn't mean he's not done improving. His improvement curve has leveled off quite a bit in recent seasons.

  I'd say that his 2010-2011 jump may  have been the biggest of his career.

  It's true that it's easier for less polished players to improve more, but by the same token players that enter the league with more polish will generally improve less than Rondo has. Being better than Rondo was at the same age doesn't imply a player will maintain that advantage over time.

[Celtics18]

Name five current NBA players without flaws.

That has nothing to do with the case in point. When you come in the league as a more polished player, it's by default harder to improve than when you come in as a seriously flawed player.

I'll give you a simple example: it's much easier to improve your FT% from .600 to .700 than it is to improve from .900 to 1.000. This general principle applies for other areas that are not necessarily as easy to quantify as well.

Just because Rondo has a history of progress (which is commendable in and of itself, because many players come into the league flawed and stay flawed), this doesn't mean he's not done improving. His improvement curve has leveled off quite a bit in recent seasons.

The only year that Rondo's improvement leveled off was last year.  I happen to think that was in large part to playing on painful feet all season.  We'll see how this season ends up.

[wdleehi]

I am keeping Rondo at this point.


I will be interested to see if Rubio's effectiveness will stay as high as teams finally have some scouting tape on him and start to adjust.