Rubio > Rondo, right?

[OmarSekou]

Rondo is the better player right now. You don't need to look at the stats to know that. I get that people are mad the Celts are at 4-4 and it's easiest to blame Rondo, but this thread is out of hand.

Rubio's a great talent and has played well. If he's better than Rondo he'll have plenty of time to prove it. Let's wait until he does something before we compare him to Rondo. Rondo's been a top 5 pg for the past few years. Rubio hasn't played 10 games.

You can argue that you like Rubio's style better or that he has a brighter future, but he's a young player that's been effective during the early part of a lockout year. Settle down.

It's a shame that no one will appreciate how special and unique Rondo is until he's gone and everyone can complain about how the new guy isn't Rondo.

[greg683x]

Rondo was unsurprisingly 4th on the team in usage rate.  Point guard or not, he was not the leader of that team. 

The characterization is as absurd as saying Mario Chalmers was the leader of the Eastern Conference champions this past year.

I thought this was a thread comparing Rubio to Rondo, not the semantics of the word "leader" ... I'll be careful not to use the word to describe PGs again, (even though it's a widely accepted term when talking about the game of basketball, and the starting PG being the "floor leader").

He helped to lead the team to a championship, much as Paul or Ray or KG or Perk. Better?

this is a thread about rubio and rondo, you were the one who brought up leading a team to a championship as the difference.  So when people disagree with you, of course what you define as being a leader is gonna be brought into question.

just saying someone is a PG on the championship team, therefore they led their team to a title is very inaccurate.  Did BJ Armstrong lead the Bulls to a title or did Jordan? Do you always think that the QB on a superbowl winning team is just the leader of that team by default?  If so, then the leader of the 2000 super bowl Ravens team was Trent Dilfer.  Rex Grossman was the QB of a Bears team that went to the Super Bowl, was he the leader of that team, or did they win games despite him?

i think a lot of us forget how far Rondo has come since 2008.  If we had beaten the Lakers in 2010, Id have no problem saying he led that team to a title.

Actually, yes, in the same way I meant Rondo is the "leader" while on the floor, (I explained why PGs are desribed as such), so is the QB the "leader" while on the field.

Sorry, but I already clarified what my intent was, and corrected the statement ... really not any point in arguing that part of it further.

This team wins and as team and loses as a team, and that's what makes it great, but the starting PG on any team is considered the "floor leader", and I'm not the only fool who says so.

no one says youre a fool.  stop being so dramatic.

more often than not, yes, the PG is the floor leader on a basketball team.  more often than not, the field general on the football field is the QB.

if it always the case? certainly not.  Theres always exceptions.  Such as the cases I brought up in football, and also in basketball.

Youre telling me BJ Armsstrong led the bulls to a title??

People might point out that BJ Armstrong is an extreme case.  But isnt a team filled with three hall of famers, with a 2nd year, unproven PG extreme as well??  A PG that the Lakers were completely abandoning on offense and using his defender as a help defender bc his deficiencies on offense were so glaring?

I understand the point youre trying to make, but there are exceptions to the rule.

Dramatic, lol?!?

That was irony, not drama, (or maybe comic relief) ... sorry, guess you don't know me too well.

TP for the good discussion anyway.

guess I interpreted that wrong. 

Wasnt much of a discussion, you replied to my initial post, then instead of replying back to me, i get a wink and a dismissive TP.

Oh well, its better off, probably wasnt going anywhere anyway

[BballTim]

People might point out that BJ Armstrong is an extreme case.  But isnt a team filled with three hall of famers, with a 2nd year, unproven PG extreme as well??  A PG that the Lakers were completely abandoning on offense and using his defender as a help defender bc his deficiencies on offense were so glaring?  A PG that people were saying the Lakers should start doing the 'Hack-a-Rondo' gameplan bc hes such a bad free throw shooter

  People really seem to have forgotten some of the games Rondo had in the Finals vs the Lakers. Game 1, 15/5/7. Game 2, 4/6/16, and he was toying with the Lakers while the Celts built up a big lead. Game 6, 21/7/8 with 6 steals. If the Lakers completely abandoned him on offense it was a glaring mistake.

[BballTim]

What we can say is that Rubio is putting up excellent numbers and showing great poise and feel for the game as a rookie.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the same point in his career Rondo could not do the same things that Rondo is doing. 

  It depends on your definition of "at the same point in his career" is. Rubio's the same age Rondo was when he was starting point guard on a title team, and Rubio's got, what, 6+ years of professional basketball experience, plus a lot of international experience?

[PosImpos]

What we can say is that Rubio is putting up excellent numbers and showing great poise and feel for the game as a rookie.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the same point in his career Rondo could not do the same things that Rondo is doing. 

  It depends on your definition of "at the same point in his career" is. Rubio's the same age Rondo was when he was starting point guard on a title team, and Rubio's got, what, 6+ years of professional basketball experience, plus a lot of international experience?

That's a fair point, but there's still a very sizeable difference between playing professionally in Spain and playing in the NBA.  Plus, part of judging a player's ceiling is considering their age and how much time they have to develop physically before they are fully matured (in their prime).

[Bahku]

Rondo was unsurprisingly 4th on the team in usage rate.  Point guard or not, he was not the leader of that team. 

The characterization is as absurd as saying Mario Chalmers was the leader of the Eastern Conference champions this past year.

I thought this was a thread comparing Rubio to Rondo, not the semantics of the word "leader" ... I'll be careful not to use the word to describe PGs again, (even though it's a widely accepted term when talking about the game of basketball, and the starting PG being the "floor leader").

He helped to lead the team to a championship, much as Paul or Ray or KG or Perk. Better?

this is a thread about rubio and rondo, you were the one who brought up leading a team to a championship as the difference.  So when people disagree with you, of course what you define as being a leader is gonna be brought into question.

just saying someone is a PG on the championship team, therefore they led their team to a title is very inaccurate.  Did BJ Armstrong lead the Bulls to a title or did Jordan? Do you always think that the QB on a superbowl winning team is just the leader of that team by default?  If so, then the leader of the 2000 super bowl Ravens team was Trent Dilfer.  Rex Grossman was the QB of a Bears team that went to the Super Bowl, was he the leader of that team, or did they win games despite him?

i think a lot of us forget how far Rondo has come since 2008.  If we had beaten the Lakers in 2010, Id have no problem saying he led that team to a title.

Actually, yes, in the same way I meant Rondo is the "leader" while on the floor, (I explained why PGs are desribed as such), so is the QB the "leader" while on the field.

Sorry, but I already clarified what my intent was, and corrected the statement ... really not any point in arguing that part of it further.

This team wins and as team and loses as a team, and that's what makes it great, but the starting PG on any team is considered the "floor leader", and I'm not the only fool who says so.

no one says youre a fool.  stop being so dramatic.

more often than not, yes, the PG is the floor leader on a basketball team.  more often than not, the field general on the football field is the QB.

if it always the case? certainly not.  Theres always exceptions.  Such as the cases I brought up in football, and also in basketball.

Youre telling me BJ Armsstrong led the bulls to a title??

People might point out that BJ Armstrong is an extreme case.  But isnt a team filled with three hall of famers, with a 2nd year, unproven PG extreme as well??  A PG that the Lakers were completely abandoning on offense and using his defender as a help defender bc his deficiencies on offense were so glaring?

I understand the point youre trying to make, but there are exceptions to the rule.

Dramatic, lol?!?

That was irony, not drama, (or maybe comic relief) ... sorry, guess you don't know me too well.

TP for the good discussion anyway.

guess I interpreted that wrong. 

Wasnt much of a discussion, you replied to my initial post, then instead of replying back to me, i get a wink and a dismissive TP.

Oh well, its better off, probably wasnt going anywhere anyway

I meant for the entire discussion (in quotes) ... I already gave TPs to others involved. I wasn't being dismissive, I've explained it more than once, that's plenty ... if you don't get my meaning by now, you're not going to. I was trying to end this on an up note, but you seem to not be satisfied with that. I'm done with this one, thanks.

[ianboyextreme]

Yall have reached a new level of rediculousness if you think ricky rubio, whilst being very good, is somehow better than the player with the 7th most playoff triple-doubles of all time- Rajon Rondo. Smarten up.

[xmuscularghandix]

Looking at the numbers Rubio is better than Rondo now at a younger age...essentially

I get the sense that you're just trying to bait people, but I'll bite:  what numbers are you talking about?  Certainly not points, assists, or overall shooting percentage.

He's a better free throw shooter, and a better three point shooter.  Those are the only numbers where he's really better than Rondo right now.

I'm getting a little tired of people's jedi senses tuned to bait whenever I disagree. Math is math. 

This is pretty textbook baiting.  I ask for numbers to back up what you're talking about, and you respond "math is math"? 

The only equivalent between math and this thread:  they both rely upon imaginary numbers.

Oh fine. Open the textbook to page one.

In a small sample size, which should logically be the hardest time of his career he hits threes at about 3 times the rate, hits free throws faaaarrrr more efficiently, has similar rebs and steals in less minutes (which makes sense because he's taller) has a couple blocks (also possibly because he's taller) per 36 minutes is only 1 assist less, and is doing it all on the Timberwolves instead of with 3 hall of famers and a former all star point guard for a coach like Rondo has.

Then there's the whole part about how Rondo definitely didn't have stats like this his rookie year

Isn't it widely accepted that when stars come together individual stats go down?

Not assists, especially when all the other stars give up their ball handling duties to their PG.

[guava_wrench]

Surprising that Rubio has the advantage in DWS.

Still a very small sample size so we can't distinguish the signal from the noise yet to make real comparisons. Nevertheless, Rubio is solid as most expected.

[BballTim]

What we can say is that Rubio is putting up excellent numbers and showing great poise and feel for the game as a rookie.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that at the same point in his career Rondo could not do the same things that Rondo is doing. 

  It depends on your definition of "at the same point in his career" is. Rubio's the same age Rondo was when he was starting point guard on a title team, and Rubio's got, what, 6+ years of professional basketball experience, plus a lot of international experience?

That's a fair point, but there's still a very sizeable difference between playing professionally in Spain and playing in the NBA.  Plus, part of judging a player's ceiling is considering their age and how much time they have to develop physically before they are fully matured (in their prime).

  But there's probably an equally large difference between Rubio's experience and Rondo's experience at that age. Rubio's far from your average rookie experience wise.

[Sketch5]

I think its like comparing Nash and Kidd. Both great passers, one can shoot better than the other. But which one has the ring and been to the finals multiple times? But does that mean Kidd is a better PG than Nash?

I think it all depends on the team you have. With less shooters you want a Nash/Rubio/Paul type PG. But if you have a ton of shooters, Rondo is the best PG to have because he doesn't look for his shot, and it wouldn't bother him.

Too many people think PG's are suppose to shoot and score 17-20 points a game. Rondo gets crap because he's old school.

Rubio is a good player, can't really look at him as a rookie, he's been playing pro ball for quite a while now. And its hasn't even been a dozen games yet. Lets see if he's doing the same next season, and if teams don't figure him out. Let him get into the play offs. 10 games is just to early to tell what kind of player he's going to be.

  Remember Harold Minor??

[Fafnir]

Surprising that Rubio has the advantage in DWS.

Still a very small sample size so we can't distinguish the signal from the noise yet to make real comparisons. Nevertheless, Rubio is solid as most expected.

Not really the C's defense has been bad this year.

I'm very concerned by this development, if we can't be a top tier defensive team we're cooked.

[rickyfan3.0...]

I'm not buying Rubio AT ALL.

[2short]

Yall have reached a new level of rediculousness if you think ricky rubio, whilst being very good, is somehow better than the player with the 7th most playoff triple-doubles of all time- Rajon Rondo. Smarten up.

ZING!
I've noticed "some" people go out of their way to bash our BEST player.  Nothing against rubio as he's look good in the nba, wasn't sure how he'd transistion from euroleague

[Bankshot]

I don't think Rubio is better than Rondo, yet, but I believe he will be, especially if Rondo doesn't improve his free throw shooting on a consistent basis.  Rubio even looked excellent on defense in spurts, so not sure Rondo will be able to claim that advantage either, especially if Rubio continues to improve in that area.  I'm not mad at Rondo though.  So what if Rubio ends up better than Rondo?  I'm pretty happy that we have Rondo.