i'm all for Stiemsma starting and i'm all for KG not playing the center spot

[green7]

I think we should start a lucky fang from the audience at PF just so that we can appreciate KG better. I say give it a shot Doc! Yeah!  

Come on now. Despite what you may think of Greg Stiemsa's game, I don't think there are very many fans in the seats at the TD BankNorth on any given night who could give us over two blocks a game in less than 15 minutes.

Jermaine O'Neal gives us 1.6 blocks per game, and unlike Stiemsma, he doesn't get tossed around like a rag doll on defense. Also, his shot blocking numbers are not skewed by a single six-block game.

Stiemsma is a great find for someone who came for free off the scrap heap, but he's not starting material at this stage of his career.

Stiemsma = youth he can learn alot from garnett & JO when it comes to post defense etc no need for the c's to have 4 players in their mid 30's in the starting line up! what are you going to say when JO get's injured huh? then doc has no choice but to start greg

[TA9]

Stiemsma is way better playing with KG than JO is.
Jermaine is sleeping half the game it annoys me!
But Stiemsma plays GREAT! Nice jumper, contests every shot man i can go on all night long.

[green7]

Stiemsma is way better playing with KG than JO is.
Jermaine is sleeping half the game it annoys me!
But Stiemsma plays GREAT! Nice jumper, contests every shot man i can go on all night long.

agreed

[ianboyextreme]

I think we should start a lucky fang from the audience at PF just so that we can appreciate KG better. I say give it a shot Doc! Yeah! 

Come on now. Despite what you may think of Greg Stiemsa's game, I don't think there are very many fans in the seats at the TD BankNorth on any given night who could give us over two blocks a game in less than 15 minutes.

Jermaine O'Neal gives us 1.6 blocks per game, and unlike Stiemsma, he doesn't get tossed around like a rag doll on defense. Also, his shot blocking numbers are not skewed by a single six-block game.

Stiemsma is a great find for someone who came for free off the scrap heap, but he's not starting material at this stage of his career.

With KG helping him out defensively, I think he could be adequate.  Also, it strikes me that having JO come in off the bench and match up against the opposition's second unit might help him regain his confidence and his form some. 

I'm not saying play Greg Stiemsa for 30 minutes a night, but he's already in the rotation, and I think it might be a worthwhile idea.

There's not much chance of this happening anyway.  So it's kind of a moot point, but there's no need to start mocking people for being compelled by an interesting idea to shake up the line up a little.

Thats all that dude (poster) does. Expect it whenever you post an idea.

[kozlodoev]

Thats all that dude (poster) does. Expect it whenever you post an idea.

Unlike you, I actually don't target individual forum users.

[kozlodoev]

With KG helping him out defensively, I think he could be adequate.  Also, it strikes me that having JO come in off the bench and match up against the opposition's second unit might help him regain his confidence and his form some.  

Stiemsma doesn't need help. He actually contributes to the team defense pretty well, all things considered (closing out angles, taking charges, weakside help, etc). Compared to other centers we've signed, he's decidedly above average.

His problems come when people start leaning on him, including low-post isolation and rebounds in traffic. So unless Garnett props him or something, I really don't see how he can help.

[Celtics18]

With KG helping him out defensively, I think he could be adequate.  Also, it strikes me that having JO come in off the bench and match up against the opposition's second unit might help him regain his confidence and his form some.  

Stiemsma doesn't need help. He actually contributes to the team defense pretty well, all things considered (closing out angles, taking charges, weakside help, etc). Compared to other centers we've signed, he's decidedly above average.

His problems come when people start leaning on him, including low-post isolation and rebounds in traffic. So unless Garnett props him or something, I really don't see how he can help.

I find myself agreeing with the first part.  I also agree about his weakness as a one on one defender and a rebounder, but considering the dearth of low post scorers in this league, I actually think the first part is way more valuable.

If he's getting killed early, you pull him and throw JO in there.  This would give JO a little push early, as well. 

Also, at the risk of being derided and mocked, I will add that I think that Stiemsa provides an energy that could be infectious in the starting lineup.  Guys like playing with guys who are exceeding expectations and performing well despite the odds.  Stiemsa has been that guy on the Celtics thus far.

To me, it seems like it would be worth the risk to try it out.

 

[kozlodoev]

I think that's fair. Use of Stiemsma, it looks, may be very situational. He didn't fare well against Hibbert, who was clearly too big and too strong for him. Also, being matched up with Okur seems to take away from his strengths, and Okur mostly stays around the three-point line. I also agree about energy.

But the thing is, we've always needed energy off the bench, so there's no harm to keep Stiemsma there. For one, less risk to be overmatched, and there are plenty of minutes to be had behind O'Neal.

[Who]

Premature to put Stiemsma into the starting lineup.

He has shown some promise and deserves minutes and a consistent role as a backup center. If Stiemsma handles that well, over a considerable period of time, then it'll be time to re-visit this topic.

[Chris]

Premature to put Stiemsma into the starting lineup.

He has shown some promise and deserves minutes and a consistent role as a backup center. If Stiemsma handles that well, over a considerable period of time, then it'll be time to re-visit this topic.

Exactly.  I think there is a very strong chance that his effectiveness will diminish very quickly as teams get a book on him.  Lets not speed that up by overexposing him too early. 

And that isn't even mentioning the difference between playing against starters (who will really attack him) and backups.

[Celtics18]

I think that's fair. Use of Stiemsma, it looks, may be very situational. He didn't fare well against Hibbert, who was clearly too big and too strong for him. Also, being matched up with Okur seems to take away from his strengths, and Okur mostly stays around the three-point line. I also agree about energy.

But the thing is, we've always needed energy off the bench, so there's no harm to keep Stiemsma there. For one, less risk to be overmatched, and there are plenty of minutes to be had behind O'Neal.

I'm not sure why I keep arguing this, as I'm certainly not married to the idea of starting Stiemsa. 

I just want to make a point about matching up with someone like Hibbert.  Sure, Hibbert overpowered Stiemsa some, but really his advantage is that he has low post skills that are very rare for a big his size. 

Again, there aren't a lot of guys like Hibbert out there. And, even for teams that have decent offensive low post bigs, very few feed the ball inside to the big on the block consistently.  The dominant low post game isn't a big factor in the NBA these days.  Even someone like Dwight Howard, the most dominant big in the game, is not a very good one on one low post player.

In the end, I'm happy starting JO and bringing Stiemsa off the bench for now.  But, if JO continues to not produce, and Stiemsa continues to play well off the bench, I would certainly consider making this move.   

[YouGotRondo d]

Playing more regular minutes with the starters would only help Stiemsma to improve. His athleticism and shot blocking would be a great help for Garnett, who I feel is trying to do much when JO is on the floor. Also, Stiemsma's below average post game would force KG to play more on the block, (which he did successfully pre-Shaq). He has played there sparingly this year.

This offense demands a talented post player to run successfully and JO isn't cutting it. KG can still be that guy if he has the energy, but he's no youngster! He's not a dominant two way player anymore, but his intelligence and inside/outside game will allow him to have continued success offensively. Let Stiemsma anchor the D.

On the other hand, JO is playing too many minutes. I already see the same signs from last year: his body starts breaking down. Last year it was his knees, now his hammy and ribs. He's still got ability, but I notice that he drops off in the 2nd half. If he's just tired, reduce his minutes and allow him to play with the more athletic Bass. This way JO could (hopefully) anchor your second unit offense long term in a reduced role while Bass anchors the D.