Danny Ainge: I wasn't shopping Rondo (But would trade him for impact player)

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is the top pg in the nba (and I'm a big rondo fan) but if the reports were true on how much we were going to give in the trade AND not have Paul signed to an extension it would have been foolish.  I don't care for Williams as much now, says a lot about a player who is pouting in new home and his old team he forced the firing of the best coach in nba (shame on utah!)
early in the season but as of now rondo is playing like #1 or #2 pg in the nba
my hope is danny is going to build the team around rondo and start a fast break team who can also do half court when it needs to ala 70's celtics
go after Love, great rebounding is the key to fast breaks, Pierce, Green, Bass, Ray & KG?    as great as Rondo's assist totals are he's never had the fast break game to "pad" assist totals and no this doesn't mean because the suns run that nash has padded assist totals but running obviously adds easy assists and easy buckets for the wing men to fill lanes

While this has nothing to do with the trading Rondo for Williams issue, which I don't think I would, I've always thought Rondo's assist totals were padded by having shooters like Ray, PP, and KG.
I mean he passes the ball out to Ray who takes a # falling out of bounds and gets an assist. Passes to KG at the top of the key, jump shot, assist. Kicks the ball to Pierce for an outside shot, assist.
I don't have a problem with Rondo, I just think assists are given out to easilly now a days. I even see guys get a pass, take a few dribbles before they shot and the guy who passed them the ball gets an assist?

So off topic, is it me or assists given out much easier that they used to be? And if that's the case, doesn't someone like Rondo who has great shooters benefit greatly from that?

  I don't think it's the case that the big three are standing around wide open and Rondo tosses them the ball for easy assists. He does a great job of running the offense, setting up mismatches, and the timing and placement of his passes is great.

  I think it's true that the assists are given out differently than they were in, say, Cousy's day, but I don't think there's been a huge change in the percentage of assisted baskets.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP 2short, I really agree with the entirety of your post.

I like Rose, I like Chris Paul, I'm so so with Deron Williams mostly because he seems like a malcontent to me.

This being said, I truly believe that Rondo is the best "pure point guard" in the league. I also think he can hurt the opponent in more ways than any other point guard in the league - steals, rebounds, assists, points, whatever is needed.

I think we've become accustomed to, logically, watching Rondo in a more half court environment because of the age of KG, RR and to some extent Paul Pierce. While this has been very effective, brought us a ring, and kept us in the hunt, I think it's hard to imagine Rondo surrounded by a young, athletic team with two young, max contract guys in the mix who can play uptempo in general but as 2short says, also play the half court when needed. The Celtics and Lakers of the 80's were opportunistic fast break teams who could also execute in the half court when needed.

Here are two scenarios:

Imagine Rondo from 2008 forward with a young KG, Pierce and Ray Allen. Pierce 25, KG and Ray 28 and 29 when they landed here. I think, without question, and assuming reasonable health we would be on our way to our 4th or 5th championship and that team would have been absolutely flying up and down the court.

Now, imagine building the next team around Rondo that is young and can really fly.

Let's imagine two possible future lineups if we get lucky in Free agency:

Dwight Howard / Stiemsma
Josh Smith /Bass / Johnson
Jeff Green / Pietrus
OJ Mayo / Moore
Rondo / Bradley

JaVale McGee / Stiemsma
Kevin Love /Bass / Johnson
Jeff Green / Pietrus
OJ Mayo / Moore
Rondo / Bradley

Mix and match the names above - just assume we can land two young max free agents in a couple spots of our roster.

Rondo is 27 or 28 by then - I'm assuming 2-3 years after this to build it.

I think Rondo is a Stockton / Kidd / Magic type of point. I do not think Rose, Paul or Williams are.

I therefore think Rondo would just decimate teams on a nightly basis. Not only because of the players around him, but moreso because of the type of play maker he is.

These other guys seem to help win games more by scoring themselves. Rondo does it by helping make everyone else on the floor score more...

This is the main reason I'd rather build around Rondo as my point than the other guys listed. and I hope we see it.    

[OsirusCeltics]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

[rondohondo]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

[BballTim]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

[rondohondo]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

With PP and Ray still in their late primes....

I say Deron would have won that series for us 

[Overrated]

Everyone and their mom knew Rondo was being shopped for CP3.

[BballTim]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

With PP and Ray still in their late primes....

I say Deron would have won that series for us 

  I say Deron wouldn't have gotten the Celts past the Bulls that year.

[wdleehi]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

[BballTim]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

[wdleehi]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

Sorry.


I still didn't know that Boozer > Pierce and Ray.

[BballTim]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

Sorry.


I still didn't know that Boozer > Pierce and Ray.

 Yes, but it actually wasn't a 3 on 3 tournament that year. Did you know that Okur/Fisher/Harpring/AK47/Millsap/Girasek > Perk/Baby/Scal/House/Marbury? These things tend to even out a bit.

[wdleehi]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

Sorry.


I still didn't know that Boozer > Pierce and Ray.

 Yes, but it actually wasn't a 3 on 3 tournament that year. Did you know that Okur/Fisher/Harpring/AK47/Millsap/Girasek > Perk/Baby/Scal/House/Marbury? These things tend to even out a bit.

Not really.   Perk was providing 11 and 11 in the playoffs.  (plus 2.6 blocks) 


Davis averaging 15 points a game in the playoffs. 

House was hitting 48% of his outside shots.

[BballTim]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

Sorry.


I still didn't know that Boozer > Pierce and Ray.

 Yes, but it actually wasn't a 3 on 3 tournament that year. Did you know that Okur/Fisher/Harpring/AK47/Millsap/Girasek > Perk/Baby/Scal/House/Marbury? These things tend to even out a bit.

Not really.   Perk was providing 11 and 11 in the playoffs.  (plus 2.6 blocks) 


Davis averaging 15 points a game in the playoffs. 

House was hitting 48% of his outside shots.

  Yeah, Davis and House were practically playing like all-stars. Swapping them with players like Millsap and AK47 probably wouldn't have improved our chances at all...

[rondohondo]

Apparently Williams is struggling recently while Rondo is on the rise. Is that true?

Rondo still hasn't improved his FT shooting at all and Williams is playing with a starting 5 of Deron, Sundiata Gaines, Damien James, Humphries and Petro....

I think Williams would be on the rise too if he was playing with the big 3 and Bass.

williams sucks stop making excuses

I don't think he sucks, but his hunger and clutchness is questionable. People praise his crossover moves and three-pointers, but has he ever had great games in the playoffs? Or put a team on his back to win important games? I don't think so.. while Rondo has plenty of clutch moments and leadership qualities that everyone overlooks

Williams is averaging 21ppg,10apg, 46%fg and 40% 3pts,80%ft in 44 career playoff games.....

He took that Jazz team with Boozer as his second best teammate to the conference finals . Rondo definitely doesn't do that with Boozer as his best teammate .

  We lost in game 7 to the team that went to the finals when our top 8 included Perk, Baby, Scal, House and Marbury. I'd say Deron wouldn't take the Jazz far with a team like that.

Way to ignore Pierce, KG and Ray


I would say the Celtics would have had a better shot at winning with Williams then with Rondo.

  Yes, all that trash talking KG did from the sidelines really tilted things in our favor.

Sorry.


I still didn't know that Boozer > Pierce and Ray.

 Yes, but it actually wasn't a 3 on 3 tournament that year. Did you know that Okur/Fisher/Harpring/AK47/Millsap/Girasek > Perk/Baby/Scal/House/Marbury? These things tend to even out a bit.

Not really.   Perk was providing 11 and 11 in the playoffs.  (plus 2.6 blocks) 


Davis averaging 15 points a game in the playoffs. 

House was hitting 48% of his outside shots.

  Yeah, Davis and House were practically playing like all-stars. Swapping them with players like Millsap and AK47 probably wouldn't have improved our chances at all...

Millsap was a rookie who averaged 6ppg and 4.5 rpg that year. Kirelinko was playing out of position at the SF because they had Boozrer.....


Sorry but the c's had the better roster that year.