Is Stiemsma the real deal? Have we found a Perk replacement?

[Finkelskyhook]

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

His track record is his predictable non-contract seasons since he signed the big contract with Indiana.

The shape he came into last season was disgraceful.....And very conducive to being injured....Or "injured".  To his credit, he's in much better shape this season.  But a player with that many miles simply can't tank a season and come back sharp the next.  If O'Neal actually decides to take the court this year...He'll be in playing shape probably by mid-season.  

That's a big if....Unless O'Neal wants to con another GM into signing him next year.

I've never liked him since I saw him run across the court and coldcock a guy in Detroit...Then scream racism when he got suspended.  But this isn't about liking or disliking.  It's about seeing the obvious over several seasons.

[clover]

couple good games.  No big deal.  He was even a bum in College averaging like 11 minutes.  In the D-League he won 2010 Defensive player of the year, but the guy averaged like 8 points, 7 rebounds and 3.5 blocks... I expect him to have a Scalabrine-esque career at most.  The Timberwolves and Cavs already gave up on him.

I imagine his early success has something to do with him being a complete unknown and players not expecting him to have some blocking ability.  They probably also don't expect him to be able to hit open shots.  They probably assume he's some stiff who they can dunk over.  They probably assume his range ends beyond 2 feet.  Right now he's benefiting from being a nobody.  

I have a feeling when teams become familiar with him, his success will end.  There have been countless examples of this.  For instance... I specifically remember in 2004 when we finally gave minutes to scrub Brandon Hunter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huntebr01/gamelog/2004/

Game 1:  35 minutes 17 points, 9 rebounds
Game 2:  34 minutes 11 points, 16 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal
Game 3:  33 minutes 10 points, 4 rebounds
Game 4:  27 minutes 7 points, 12 rebounds, 1 steal

Around this time people there were threads like this popping up on Celtic forums... declaring Brandon Hunter to be the next Charles Barkley.  He was out of the league a year later after playing a total of 67 games.... and I imagine Stiemsma will too.  

You could be right. Not saying you aren't. But Hunter was an undersized PF. He also came straight to the league after 4 years of college, where he was basically the man.

Steimsma is a true 7 footer who was basically never used or developed in college. His coaches didn't even try to take advantage of his size other than to set screens because Wisconsin was such a guard oriented program.

But Steimsma went to Europe, worked on his body and his game, matured it in the NBDL and has become more than he ever was in college. Mentally and physically he is a different player than the one that came out of college with real pro size and gifts.

Hunter was undersized and had already maxed out his physique and his playing abilities because he was properly developed in college. I think Steimsma is a different animal and could actually have some more growing room as a player.

Or I could be all wrong and you could be 100% right. Time will tell.

TP--nice post!

[Neurotic Guy]

Cblog isn't prone to negativity, but rather, to knee-jerk conclusions. 

After Game 3 a few were suggesting that KG is done and the C's are done.  After Game 6 a few are advocating that Stiemsma be the starting center. 

To be honest, I think most posters have been realistic on both sides -- it's far too early to tell.

[twinbree]

No I don't think he's the next Perk. For me Perk is irreplaceable sniff sniff. Expected zero for him so I’m pleasantly surprised by him so far. Otherworldly blocks stats aside, I think he needs to improve a lot defensively. He does seem to have a good motor and attitude so he can develop into a nice backup C and stick in the league. I wish Clifford Ray was still around to work with him.

[Celtics4ever]

Me too, he is a work in progress who needs lots of work on positional D.  That being said he is a nice find who shows more potential than some draft picks.   He looks better than Acie Earl to me.

[LarBrd33]

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now. 

lol. 

ITS 6 GAMES.  Would you be happier if he averaged 30/15/6/6 ?

Geez.  He's a significant contributer.  That's a huge surprise.  He'll be better as he learns his new teammates.  Stiemsma's clearly not afraid to work.

I'm saying he would have shown more over the course of 4 seasons at University of Wisconsin-Madison where he only earned 11 minutes a game as a senior... would have shown more playing in Turkey and South Korea... wouldn't have been signed and cut by both the Timberwolves and the Cavs before even appearing in a single game...  He averaged 8.8 points, 7.1 rebounds and 3.6 blocks in the D-League.  None of that really points to him having major potential.  He's a 26 year old scrub who we picked up, because we literally had no other options.  Our David West deal fell apart... so we shockingly let our training camp invite stick around to fill a roster spot.

[CoachBo]

Six games isn't an adequate sample size to evaluate the guy.

He does a lot of good things - defensively. Pretty useless offensively.

For now. We'll see, but I'm not at all prepared to go hyperbolic over a guy who has played six games.

[LooseCannon]

It's a huge mistake to think that players with Stiemsma's resume can't ever become useful rotation players.  I'm not ready to anoint him as the guy who solidifies the center position for cheap as a starter, but I could certainly see him as a guy who could provide some long-term bench continuity for the team as a second- or third-string center over the next 3-5 years so long as he plays for approximately the minimum.

[cman88]

Six games isn't an adequate sample size to evaluate the guy.

He does a lot of good things - defensively. Pretty useless offensively.

For now. We'll see, but I'm not at all prepared to go hyperbolic over a guy who has played six games.

he was pretty good offensively last night..13pts.he can be useful in the pick and pop

[33_Larry Legend_33]

Bill Laimbeer had a good career for being some "useless" pick and pop big man jump shooter...

[the_Bird]

Bill Laimbeer had a good career for being some "useless" pick and pop big man jump shooter...

Laimbeer had 10x more ass than Stiemsma, which helped his post defense.

He also was 1000x more of an ass than Stiemsma, but that's really a point in Greg's favor.

[Eddie20]

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now. 

lol. 

ITS 6 GAMES.  Would you be happier if he averaged 30/15/6/6 ?

Geez.  He's a significant contributer.  That's a huge surprise.  He'll be better as he learns his new teammates.  Stiemsma's clearly not afraid to work.

I'm saying he would have shown more over the course of 4 seasons at University of Wisconsin-Madison where he only earned 11 minutes a game as a senior... would have shown more playing in Turkey and South Korea... wouldn't have been signed and cut by both the Timberwolves and the Cavs before even appearing in a single game...  He averaged 8.8 points, 7.1 rebounds and 3.6 blocks in the D-League.  None of that really points to him having major potential.  He's a 26 year old scrub who we picked up, because we literally had no other options.  Our David West deal fell apart... so we shockingly let our training camp invite stick around to fill a roster spot.

Sometimes players, especially bigs, take a longer time to develop. Brad Miller, Ben Wallace, and Birdman all went undrafted. Miller and Wallace did not start receiving consistent PT until they were 24. Anderson when he was 26. Steam just turned 26.

West, or no West, he would have made the roster. Let's not forget JO would have been part of that deal.

[mmmmm]

If Stiemsma was "the real deal" he would have shown more by now. 

lol. 

ITS 6 GAMES.  Would you be happier if he averaged 30/15/6/6 ?

Geez.  He's a significant contributer.  That's a huge surprise.  He'll be better as he learns his new teammates.  Stiemsma's clearly not afraid to work.

I'm saying he would have shown more over the course of 4 seasons at University of Wisconsin-Madison where he only earned 11 minutes a game as a senior... would have shown more playing in Turkey and South Korea... wouldn't have been signed and cut by both the Timberwolves and the Cavs before even appearing in a single game...  He averaged 8.8 points, 7.1 rebounds and 3.6 blocks in the D-League.  None of that really points to him having major potential.  He's a 26 year old scrub who we picked up, because we literally had no other options.  Our David West deal fell apart... so we shockingly let our training camp invite stick around to fill a roster spot.

Wisconsin's offense was completely guard-oriented and all they ever used bigs like Stiemsma for were for screens and rebounds.  Thus his college experience was really poor prep for the NBA.  That doesn't in any way prove he would not have been better prepped if he'd gone to some place else.   It only establishes that at that time he was not.

He's basically been forced to develop his skills post-NCAA through over seas play and in the D-League and at this point in his career has proven so far to be worth his roster spot.  We have no way to be certain whether he's reached the limit of his upside or not.

Let's check back in a couple months before we label him as a scrub or a stud.

[mmmmm]

Six games isn't an adequate sample size to evaluate the guy.

He does a lot of good things - defensively. Pretty useless offensively.

For now. We'll see, but I'm not at all prepared to go hyperbolic over a guy who has played six games.

Pretty useless offensively?   A big who can hit a 12-15 foot jumper (and free throws) is useless offensively?

[Tai]

1. What's this "track record"? Last season? I'll be blunt on this point, as to not "imply" one thing or another; I just think you don't like him, so you're the one using spin with this.

2. CONSIDERING last season, If Doc was infact told not by JO, but a TRAINER, that JO shouldn't play, why should Doc ignore that and play him anyways, and risk JO being out for a longer period of time JUST LIKE LAST SEASON?! I'll be slightly insulted if you claim Doc lied about what Ed told him.

His track record is his predictable non-contract seasons since he signed the big contract with Indiana.

The shape he came into last season was disgraceful.....And very conducive to being injured....Or "injured".  To his credit, he's in much better shape this season.  But a player with that many miles simply can't tank a season and come back sharp the next.  If O'Neal actually decides to take the court this year...He'll be in playing shape probably by mid-season.  

That's a big if....Unless O'Neal wants to con another GM into signing him next year.

I've never liked him since I saw him run across the court and coldcock a guy in Detroit...Then scream racism when he got suspended.  But this isn't about liking or disliking.  It's about seeing the obvious over several seasons.

If this isn't about liking or disliking, why even mention this? Sounds to me you haven't been objective about this at all. Not that I haven't heard you mention that before, but I think you basically admitted this IS about liking or disliking a player....

And what do you mean "if he decides to take the court this year"? Monday was the first game he sat out this season, and the C's have played 6 so far. And he's apparently good to go for Wednesday night.