Author Topic: Why Keep #1 Picks  (Read 5670 times)

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Why Keep #1 Picks
« on: January 01, 2012, 11:03:20 AM »

Offline OHCeltic

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We never player our #1 picks because Doc doesn't trust them.
The only #1 pick Doc is going to trust is his son.
Lets trade our number 1's and get veteran guys that Doc trust and lets win now and later.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2012, 11:07:34 AM »

Offline TA9

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 11:12:24 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2012, 11:19:48 AM »

Offline TA9

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed Mikke Moore or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2012, 11:22:33 AM »

Offline TA9

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed Mikke Moore or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..
But i still agree that Doc should trust his rookies a lil more.
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2012, 11:22:47 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..

Despite playing horrible at other times. That's the point no? For some reason Doc is vastly more forgiving to vets regardless if they're the more useful option.

I liked all those pick-ups, but when it was obvious they weren't producing for us, and at times really hurting us, Doc was content with playing them, often at the expense of a better choice. Like House in the 2008 playoffs through the first 2 rounds.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2012, 11:24:46 AM »

Offline TA9

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..

Despite playing horrible at other times. That's the point no? For some reason Doc is vastly more forgiving to vets regardless if they're the more useful option.

I liked all those pick-ups, but when it was obvious they weren't producing for us, and at times really hurting us, Doc was content with playing them, often at the expense of a better choice. Like House in the 2008 playoffs through the first 2 rounds.
Agreed ;) This will hopefully change when we enter Rebuilding mode ;D
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2012, 11:26:44 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..

Despite playing horrible at other times. That's the point no? For some reason Doc is vastly more forgiving to vets regardless if they're the more useful option.

I liked all those pick-ups, but when it was obvious they weren't producing for us, and at times really hurting us, Doc was content with playing them, often at the expense of a better choice. Like House in the 2008 playoffs through the first 2 rounds.
Agreed ;) This will hopefully change when we enter Rebuilding mode ;D

I personally don't think we'll be in rebuilding mode for a few years still, and I don't think he'll be around for that in all honesty. I don't think he has it in him to go through another project like that one.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2012, 11:53:52 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I have no problem trading away the picks if it helps the team this year. 


I don't think either pick is going to be very high. 

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2012, 12:01:30 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..

Despite playing horrible at other times. That's the point no? For some reason Doc is vastly more forgiving to vets regardless if they're the more useful option.

I liked all those pick-ups, but when it was obvious they weren't producing for us, and at times really hurting us, Doc was content with playing them, often at the expense of a better choice. Like House in the 2008 playoffs through the first 2 rounds.
Exactly what better choices did Doc have at the time?

JR Giddens, the guy that is no longer in the league?
Bill Walker, the Knicks worst defensive player and possibly the league worst sixth man ever?
Gabe Pruitt, another player who has never made it back to the league for any significant amount of time.

House wasn't a young player or rookie. He had been in a long slump to end the season and lost his job to Cassell but then Cassell lost that same job because he could hit a shot either. When House returned he played better and kept the job.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2012, 12:39:22 PM »

Offline lantinm

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You keep #1 picks because they are assets.  Here's a hypothetical situation:

Clippers pick is around 15 or 17
Our pick is in the 25-30 range

Add in Bradley or Moore and the Nets 2014 2nd rounder,
and you get yourself in the 8-11 range in the draft to take someone like Austin Rivers, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, or Quincy Miller.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2012, 12:57:58 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Bill Sharman
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Doc plays talented Rookies.
I love all of our Rookies right now, but all of them have some flaws in their game;
EtWaun; Great Offensive, but dont really know about his defense (He moves his feets really slow, dont know if anybody else have noticed)
Avery; Great Defensive, Sucks Offensive.
JaJuan; Great all around talent, but need to bulk up.

There's always going to be something. Yet he played Mikki Moore, Marbury, Robinson, Cassell all because they were experienced players, even though they sucked through many stretches.
I cant understand how we signed or how the hell the guy got minutes, but the other guys were pretty decent..
Cassell played pretty well here (Offensive wise..).
Robinson and Marbury were pretty average pickups, both saved us in playoff games..

Despite playing horrible at other times. That's the point no? For some reason Doc is vastly more forgiving to vets regardless if they're the more useful option.

I liked all those pick-ups, but when it was obvious they weren't producing for us, and at times really hurting us, Doc was content with playing them, often at the expense of a better choice. Like House in the 2008 playoffs through the first 2 rounds.
Exactly what better choices did Doc have at the time?

JR Giddens, the guy that is no longer in the league?
Bill Walker, the Knicks worst defensive player and possibly the league worst sixth man ever?
Gabe Pruitt, another player who has never made it back to the league for any significant amount of time.

House wasn't a young player or rookie. He had been in a long slump to end the season and lost his job to Cassell but then Cassell lost that same job because he could hit a shot either. When House returned he played better and kept the job.

All of the above. It's not all about depth chart discussions, it's also about giving players their due rest to optimize their time on the floor. Walker for one, even with all his misgivings, he could've been very much helpful during that year. If not to keep our players fresh, but to give us an offensive lift from time to time, and if anything be another player Doc could call on when the time presented itself. Which incidentally was during the Magic's series, but Doc couldn't call on Walker by then... he hadn't play much all season.

But let's forget the "young player"  aspect as it doesn't apply to House. How about stubborn, does that define Doc better? Sometimes it comes off as a strength, but at other times it bites us in the ass. The House situation was like this. Cassell wasn't playing well either other than some spot games here and there. He finished the season with some strong meaningless games, though until that time he was pretty much mediocre for us. Had some good games against Atlanta, and a good game against Cleveland early on. Other than that, he was bad for us in those 2 series.

But it's not all about Cassell, how about the misused of Rondo during that playoff run? Rondo was quite bad, other than a few games here and there. Wasn't moving the ball well, was horrible in 4th quarters, and was not scoring the ball much either. And this is very important given that teams were forcing us to play 4 on 5 on offense.

The simple fact that House got on the floor at the end of the Cleveland series, it finally gave the Celtics a good offensive flow which we were missing until then, particularly when using Pierce as a point forward.

So yes, he's very reluctant to play young players, as well as stubborn with his usage of veterans.

And in all honesty, it isn't about playing young players vs. playing the vets, or developing talent. It's about, you have little depth in one position then you better have people ready to play that position when needed. Which was his mistake on how he used Giddens/Walker. We could argue that Ainge should've picked someone to fill that role, but he didn't, so Doc had to make sure to get the people ready, and he didn't and when we needed either of them, even for a few minutes a game to keep our main guys fresh, he couldn't go to them.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2012, 01:05:44 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Sorry I just don't agree with what you are saying here. Doc is one heck of a coach. He also has a tremendous record for developing young talent. Walker might be the only player ever not to get playing time under Doc that got it elsewhere and that's probably says more about the quality of the players on the Knicks bench than it says about Doc's ability to evaluate talent.

I just think, BC, that you are one of these guys that don't like Doc as a coach and think that rookies should always get playing time. I ahppen to trust Doc and I happen to think if young players aren't good enough to play or ready to play, they shouldn't, period. They have to earn their time, not be given it.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2012, 01:11:32 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Sorry I just don't agree with what you are saying here. Doc is one heck of a coach. He also has a tremendous record for developing young talent. Walker might be the only player ever not to get playing time under Doc that got it elsewhere and that's probably says more about the quality of the players on the Knicks bench than it says about Doc's ability to evaluate talent.

I just think, BC, that you are one of these guys that don't like Doc as a coach and think that rookies should always get playing time. I ahppen to trust Doc and I happen to think if young players aren't good enough to play or ready to play, they shouldn't, period. They have to earn their time, not be given it.

No, I love Doc as a coach. I disagree with a lot of the things he does. I don't care about rookies, I just believe they can be used and required to be used in some circumstances.

You trust Doc, that's cool, doesn't mean I'm going to blindly trust him or go against what my intuition of what I'm seeing in the floor is telling me, just because I need to trust Doc.

Want an example of how being stubborn was good for Doc? Well, the whole PJ Brown situation. Brown looked like crap, even during the playoffs, yet Doc kept giving him chances and he was rewarded. Doesn't always work, but it doesn't mean that Doc's decisions are golden always, and they often hurt us.

Re: Why Keep #1 Picks
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 01:28:10 PM »

Offline diconzo

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Why does everyone want to trade up in the draft? By the time that player hits his prime Rondo will be in his early 30's and it will all have been a waste. We will have been a 8th seed/just missing the playoffs for the next 4-5 years. We need to either go full on rebuild, or find players around Rondo's age that will make an impact (Monta Ellis, Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, Lamarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, OJ Mayo)