Is KG Done?

[Snakehead]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I take "comeptitive" there as speaking to what Garnett brings to your team psychology, identity, and intensity over the course of a season.  A pick up game is all fine and good but they hardly touch those aspects, while in a competitive situation you are part of the team and going through the whole experience of a season together.

I don't think playing "competitive" makes that totally clear, or the lack of that experience means you could never understand, but it has to help. 

Ultimately, how some are dismissing Garnett to me shows a lack of understanding of basketball at some level, regardless of the reasons behind it.

[Kane3387]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't want to get into this argument. But you don't learn the game of basketball playing in pick-up games. KG is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the NBA and he is getting no respect on this board.

For example. On defense name me a better player today who can hedge on a pick and roll and recover to his man on defense. There might be two. My point is that because the guy doesn't look pretty doesn't mean he isn't overall an effective player. The fact so many on here are putting him down and asking if he "is done?" causes me to question just whether or not they even watch this guy when he doesn't have the ball.

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful.

But Kg is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. If he is the 3rd or 4th best player on your team then you have nothing to be upset about. It's a little frustrating that others want to ignore that and cast him as some washed up has been.

Again I want to go on record in saying that I enjoy these forums because the overall knowledge on this board is the best I have ever seen. Still there are few people in the NBA let alone people who are alive who have the ability to do what KG presently does. I think he is not getting the credit he deserves.

[Greenbean]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

Seriously...


I mean I played "competitive" basketball but I would never pretend to know what it's like to play in the NBA.

As fans we have knowledge based on what we watch, research, read and discuss.

Everyone here has different views on the game of basketball and it is why I post and read here.

[Greenbean]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't want to get into this argument. But you don't learn the game of basketball playing in pick-up games. KG is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the NBA and he is getting no respect on this board.

For example. On defense name me a better player today who can hedge on a pick and roll and recover to his man on defense. There might be two. My point is that because the guy doesn't look pretty doesn't mean he isn't overall an effective player. The fact so many on here are putting him down and asking if he "is done?" causes me to question just whether or not they even watch this guy when he doesn't have the ball.

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful.

But Kg is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. If he is the 3rd or 4th best player on your team then you have nothing to be upset about. It's a little frustrating that others want to ignore that and cast him as some washed up has been.

Again I want to go on record in saying that I enjoy these forums because the overall knowledge on this board is the best I have ever seen. Still there are few people in the NBA let alone people who are alive who have the ability to do what KG presently does. I think he is not getting the credit he deserves.

Okay but what does recognizing KG's ability to hedge a pick and roll efectively have to do with actually playing basketball?


It's not that difficult of a concept to pick up and observe.

[birdwatcher]

He's done as a consistent offensive threat. I think he could extend his career if he put on a few pounds and played more center off the bench. Hey, Jordan bulked up and changed positions when he came back with the Wizards, and he was effective. We just can't lean on KG on both ends of the floor anymore. Adding weight may slow him a bit, but he can't get up anymore, anyway--when was the last time he finished an alley oop from Rondo, 2009?
He can still play, but our expectations for him at this stage of his career may not match what he's capable of.

[vinnie]

I just don't believe that Kevin Garnett is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. I think he will give the team 12-14 points per game and 7-8 boards. He would be much better defensively, however, if the Celtics had a center. He is still starter caliber, but not an all star by any means.

[Kane3387]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I take "comeptitive" there as speaking to what Garnett brings to your team psychology, identity, and intensity over the course of a season.  A pick up game is all fine and good but they hardly touch those aspects, while in a competitive situation you are part of the team and going through the whole experience of a season together.

I don't think playing "competitive" makes that totally clear, or the lack of that experience means you could never understand, but it has to help. 

Ultimately, how some are dismissing Garnett to me shows a lack of understanding of basketball at some level, regardless of the reasons behind it.

The mental aspect of playing basketball doesn't come into play as much when you are playing pickup basketball. There is little strategy put into place. It's very chaotic and disorganized. No game planning, etc. What these guys are doing in the NBA at that level is astonishing to be honest with you. The familiarity they have with one another and the preparation that takes place is off the charts.

Kg for the last few years has been successful more so because of his mental abilities more then his physical. The fact he has been able to play at such a high level into his mid 30s is unreal. He's being disrespected on here plain and simple. Forget what he has done in the past. He should be appreciated for what he is doing now. He is still playing at a level that only a hand full of other PFs can surpass. People are in a hurry to get rid of him, but I ask you who you will replace him with that can give you the overall production he currently does?

[Kane3387]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't want to get into this argument. But you don't learn the game of basketball playing in pick-up games. KG is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the NBA and he is getting no respect on this board.

For example. On defense name me a better player today who can hedge on a pick and roll and recover to his man on defense. There might be two. My point is that because the guy doesn't look pretty doesn't mean he isn't overall an effective player. The fact so many on here are putting him down and asking if he "is done?" causes me to question just whether or not they even watch this guy when he doesn't have the ball.

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful.

But Kg is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. If he is the 3rd or 4th best player on your team then you have nothing to be upset about. It's a little frustrating that others want to ignore that and cast him as some washed up has been.

Again I want to go on record in saying that I enjoy these forums because the overall knowledge on this board is the best I have ever seen. Still there are few people in the NBA let alone people who are alive who have the ability to do what KG presently does. I think he is not getting the credit he deserves.

Okay but what does recognizing KG's ability to hedge a pick and roll efectively have to do with actually playing basketball?


It's not that difficult of a concept to pick up and observe.

BC that's a huge part of playing offense in the NBA. If a team's set doesn't work they either resort to a pick and pop/roll or isolation type play. His ability to defend that has been a huge part of our success.

[Kane3387]

I just don't believe that Kevin Garnett is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. I think he will give the team 12-14 points per game and 7-8 boards. He would be much better defensively, however, if the Celtics had a center. He is still starter caliber, but not an all star by any means.

I can't come up with a list of 30-40 players better them him. 14 and 8 is nothing to look down on. Not everything this guy brings to the table will show up on a stat sheet.

[Greenbean]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't mean to put words in his mouth, but I take "comeptitive" there as speaking to what Garnett brings to your team psychology, identity, and intensity over the course of a season.  A pick up game is all fine and good but they hardly touch those aspects, while in a competitive situation you are part of the team and going through the whole experience of a season together.

I don't think playing "competitive" makes that totally clear, or the lack of that experience means you could never understand, but it has to help. 

Ultimately, how some are dismissing Garnett to me shows a lack of understanding of basketball at some level, regardless of the reasons behind it.

The mental aspect of playing basketball doesn't come into play as much when you are playing pickup basketball. There is little strategy put into place. It's very chaotic and disorganized. No game planning, etc. What these guys are doing in the NBA at that level is astonishing to be honest with you. The familiarity they have with one another and the preparation that takes place is off the charts.

Kg for the last few years has been successful more so because of his mental abilities more then his physical. The fact he has been able to play at such a high level into his mid 30s is unreal. He's being disrespected on here plain and simple. Forget what he has done in the past. He should be appreciated for what he is doing now. He is still playing at a level that only a hand full of other PFs can surpass. People are in a hurry to get rid of him, but I ask you who you will replace him with that can give you the overall production he currently does?

Okay I understand the difference between pickup ball and organized ball. I still dont get how it affects someone's knowledge of NBA ball.

Regardless, speaking to KG I think I nknow why some people are jumping on him this early.

Our team defense has been embarassingly bad and KG is the face of team defense.

I do not think he is done because physically he looks fine but his timing is off for some reason. He just doesnt look fluid on defense and he is not being as disruptive as he was last year in passing lanes. Hopefully it is just rust I think he'll be fine.

Just try not to generalize comments by saying "this board" because the voice of a few does not mean everyone here thinks KG is ready for burial.

[Greenbean]

TP for this too. You can't expect everyone  on here to understand the game. I doubt the majority of people on here even played it at a competitive level; otherwise they would understand the impact Garnett still has even at this stage of his career.

While I agree with you on Garnett's impact the past two years despite his offensive decline, the underlined part of the post irks me hugely.

Its far too casual put down of the membership of this blog's basketball intelligence, along with an unverifiable appeal to authority of "playing competitively" (which is a rather vague term, some places pick up games are more competitive than HS tournaments).

I don't want to get into this argument. But you don't learn the game of basketball playing in pick-up games. KG is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the NBA and he is getting no respect on this board.

For example. On defense name me a better player today who can hedge on a pick and roll and recover to his man on defense. There might be two. My point is that because the guy doesn't look pretty doesn't mean he isn't overall an effective player. The fact so many on here are putting him down and asking if he "is done?" causes me to question just whether or not they even watch this guy when he doesn't have the ball.

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful.

But Kg is still a top 30-40 player in the NBA. If he is the 3rd or 4th best player on your team then you have nothing to be upset about. It's a little frustrating that others want to ignore that and cast him as some washed up has been.

Again I want to go on record in saying that I enjoy these forums because the overall knowledge on this board is the best I have ever seen. Still there are few people in the NBA let alone people who are alive who have the ability to do what KG presently does. I think he is not getting the credit he deserves.

Okay but what does recognizing KG's ability to hedge a pick and roll efectively have to do with actually playing basketball?


It's not that difficult of a concept to pick up and observe.

BC that's a huge part of playing offense in the NBA. If a team's set doesn't work they either resort to a pick and pop/roll or isolation type play. His ability to defend that has been a huge part of our success.

No I mean why do you have to have played competitve basketball to understand what hedging on a P&R is.

[Fafnir]

I don't want to get into this argument. But you don't learn the game of basketball playing in pick-up games. KG is one of the most fundamentally sound players in the NBA and he is getting no respect on this board.

Then don't presume that others lack knowledge or understanding that you have when they disagree with you based on an assumption (whether they played competitive organized ball I guess is how I understand you).

1. No one knows who played and who didn't and at what level here, we're all fairly anonymous on the internet (unless we take the trouble to cyber-stalk, thanks Facebook for making it easy!)

2. Playing at some set level isn't a requirement for understanding, plenty of players play and never understand after all (Hi Gerald Green! How was Russia, still cold?)

3. It is just a different appeal to authority in my book. You're attempting to give your argument more weight outside of what you can manage with your rheatoric so you bring up "playing the game".

In subsequent posts you're pivoting the issue to the difference between pickup and organized ball, which is entirely beside the point.

In the end this probably isn't worth going into all that much more than that. Just use your own experience with basketball to inform your opinions, don't use it to lessen others views.

I learn random things from my fiance who played women's basketball at a much higher level than I ever did. First one, girls are catty about freshmen taking their playing time. Second one, most people suck at post entry passing (hi Jameer Nelson!).

[Greenbean]

Oh man Faf you just touched on a big pet peeve of mine...post entry passing!

Ill save that for another thread but when I have kids and I teach them to play, they will be the best dang post entry passers in their age group!

[PosImpos]

Done as a superstar / all-star.  Yes, absolutely.

He's still capable of being a very high quality roleplayer and making a big impact on defense.

That said, I imagine he'll struggle to score more than 10-12 points per game this season, and might not grab more than 7 or 8 rebounds.

  He clearly deserved his spot on the all-star team last year. He's clearly not a superstar, but I'd give him a little more time before I declared him a role player.

I never said he didn't deserve his spot on the All-Star team last year.

[Snakehead]

Oh man Faf you just touched on a big pet peeve of mine...post entry passing!

Ill save that for another thread but when I have kids and I teach them to play, they will be the best dang post entry passers in their age group!

As a big man who played all through the school years and continues to in college for fun, I can't tell you how many guards don't even understand the concept that there is a correct way to do it.  And I don't remember a single coach ever mentioning it (unless the angle a guard took was so absurd he had to).


Good post though Faf I think some (like myself) are just annoyed by the KG disrespect.  True though that basketball experience should just add to your points and we can't judge others on here.