You know you want it - Paul vs. Rondo

[MBunge]

LOL at this thread. Don't get me wrong, Rondo's a great player, but there's a reason why Paul has been regarded as the top pure point guard in the game for years now.

Paul WAS the top pure PG in the game before his injury.  He hasn't been that since on a consistent basis and a lot of folks seem to be in denial about that.

Mike

[BudweiserCeltic]

What Rondo needs to improve on is making defenses adjust to him, and when they adjust to him, exploit weaknesses. What he's done well this year so far is shooting the jumper they're giving him. When teams stop giving him that shot because he's being consistent, then the fun should really start with Rondo. But at the moment, teams are simply packing the middle, they try to contain penetration, but at the same time, our inside game also suffers because of it. So for the time being we need better use of our perimeter players, tired of seeing them wide-open and not get passes to help open up the floor both for himself and the big men.

Allen has been hitting a lot of threes, but most of them have been difficult off-balance, and contested shots. Let's see if we start finding him when he actually gets open, see better ball movement from everyone involved.

  I don't think Ray's really been that open. But Rondo seems to be hitting him when he is. I was watching Rondo and Ray in the Miami game(since it was a topic of discussion that day. Ray made 6 threes in that game, Rondo assisted on 5 of them. Rondo was putting the ball right where it needed to be, right when it needed to be there.

I agree for the most part. The main problem I see, is that often let's say Ray comes off the screen, there's still some hesitation at giving him the ball, unless Rondo seems to have pre-planned to giving him the ball in that particular play. So what happens is that the hesitation allows the defender to catch up, often because Rondo is either planning to penetrate or go inside.

Passing wise, overall I've liked what I've seen from Rondo this season (in the aspects I've complained before), though not as much ball movement as I would like to see. But won't complain much since he's improved offensively himself by a good margin. So now it's all about finding a good balance of getting his offense and keeping the ball moving.

In my opinion, I would do the opposite. Always try to give Ray the ball, if the defense plays it close, it should then open up Rondo for better opportunities for himself and KG, while not wasting Ray's effort moving around. But that's a coaching problem more than anything I think, but still would like to see Rondo making quicker decisions as far as running plays go. Just tired of being down on the shot clock without doing anything, happens to often in our team.

[indeedproceed]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

  I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

TP. I was looking at that thinking, "Yeah, but what was Rondo's floor last year?"..but then realized that I was just too tired to look it up.

[LakersFan_33]

LOL at this thread. Don't get me wrong, Rondo's a great player, but there's a reason why Paul has been regarded as the top pure point guard in the game for years now.

Paul WAS the top pure PG in the game before his injury.  He hasn't been that since on a consistent basis and a lot of folks seem to be in denial about that.

Mike

Then why was your GM desperately trying to trade Rondo for him?

[MBunge]

LOL at this thread. Don't get me wrong, Rondo's a great player, but there's a reason why Paul has been regarded as the top pure point guard in the game for years now.

Paul WAS the top pure PG in the game before his injury.  He hasn't been that since on a consistent basis and a lot of folks seem to be in denial about that.

Mike

Then why was your GM desperately trying to trade Rondo for him?

1.  The previously mentioned denial.

2.  Uncertainty over Rondo's shooting.  If Rondo can just hit free throws at a 70% clip and avoid 2-10 nights at the line, he doesn't even need to hit many jumpers to close a lot of the gap on Paul offensively.

3.  I believe Boston was one of the team's willing to take Paul without him picking up his 2nd year option, indicating that Ainge also valued the cap room that he would get by offloading Rondo's salary.

Mike

[BballTim]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

  I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

[ms.ball]

LOL at this thread. Don't get me wrong, Rondo's a great player, but there's a reason why Paul has been regarded as the top pure point guard in the game for years now.

Paul WAS the top pure PG in the game before his injury.  He hasn't been that since on a consistent basis and a lot of folks seem to be in denial about that.

Mike

Your are correct sir....  TP for you!

[TheTruthFot18]

Although I grabbed Cp3 on the celtics blog draft and in my money league, I feel he is overrated. Obviously not surprising anyone on here, but Cp3 is even with rondo as a distributor, defender, theif (steals), ball handling, and driving to the hoop. What makes Cp3 a top fantasy option and the "unanimous" PG king is his ability to make FT's (~85%) and make jump shots.

I didn't really feel last year was gonna be a up year for rondo in terms of FT's, jump shot, scoring, despite some claims on this blog. However I will bank on it this year. Injuries to the Big 3 will force rondo into the leading role more than any year and like always he will step up. I used to cringe when he pulled up for a J or shot a FT, now I just expect them to go in, and first 3 games argument aside, he's been delivering. Just gotta get those TO's down

Rondo > Paul all day(even on thursdays)

[indeedproceed]

I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

We were talking about the 'basements' for two players last season. A season in which Paul was also, IIRC, recovering from injury.

[PosImpos]

With that said

Deron Williams
32.3mpg 29%fg 84% from the line 14.3ppg 5.7apg 5.0rpg 1steal 5.4TO's

Derrick Rose
35.7 minutes 45%fg 90%ft 18ppg 7ast 2.3rebounds Zilch in steals and 4.7TO's

It's safe to say at the early stage of the season, we have the best point guard in the league and yet we'll still manage to complain about him.

Kyle Lowry begs to differ

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3012/kyle-lowry

[indeedproceed]

With that said

Deron Williams
32.3mpg 29%fg 84% from the line 14.3ppg 5.7apg 5.0rpg 1steal 5.4TO's

Derrick Rose
35.7 minutes 45%fg 90%ft 18ppg 7ast 2.3rebounds Zilch in steals and 4.7TO's

It's safe to say at the early stage of the season, we have the best point guard in the league and yet we'll still manage to complain about him.

Kyle Lowry begs to differ

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3012/kyle-lowry

Called it.

[BballTim]

I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

We were talking about the 'basements' for two players last season. A season in which Paul was also, IIRC, recovering from injury.

  I'd say that 5 poor games in a row that probably coincide with an injury is somewhat different than randomly occurring within a season, but that's not the point. The claim was that "true franchise players" like CP3 are not at all inconsistent and never have poor games.

[indeedproceed]

I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

We were talking about the 'basements' for two players last season. A season in which Paul was also, IIRC, recovering from injury.

  I'd say that 5 poor games in a row that probably coincide with an injury is somewhat different than randomly occurring within a season, but that's not the point. The claim was that "true franchise players" like CP3 are not at all inconsistent and never have poor games.

Nobody would claim that.

[BballTim]

I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

We were talking about the 'basements' for two players last season. A season in which Paul was also, IIRC, recovering from injury.

  I'd say that 5 poor games in a row that probably coincide with an injury is somewhat different than randomly occurring within a season, but that's not the point. The claim was that "true franchise players" like CP3 are not at all inconsistent and never have poor games.

Nobody would claim that.

  The claim was players like that don't have games as poor as Rondo's bad games. I listed a number of poor statistical games that Paul had and asked if he'd seen those games. I mean, injuries aside, how do people know that Rondo's worst (healthy) games are worse than anything you'll see from CP3 or Deron Williams with having seen the worst games from those players?

[ben_from_boston]

I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

  A 5 game stretch, likely because he was playing through an injury. Not quite what we were talking about.

We were talking about the 'basements' for two players last season. A season in which Paul was also, IIRC, recovering from injury.

  I'd say that 5 poor games in a row that probably coincide with an injury is somewhat different than randomly occurring within a season, but that's not the point. The claim was that "true franchise players" like CP3 are not at all inconsistent and never have poor games.

Nobody would claim that.

  The claim was players like that don't have games as poor as Rondo's bad games. I listed a number of poor statistical games that Paul had and asked if he'd seen those games. I mean, injuries aside, how do people know that Rondo's worst (healthy) games are worse than anything you'll see from CP3 or Deron Williams with having seen the worst games from those players?

And, points wise, even when those top players have horrible nights, they make sure they "get theirs," just they'll take that many more shots to do so, thereby hurting the team. Rondo won't. He'll change his game.