You know you want it - Paul vs. Rondo

[Fafnir]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

[Chris]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

[dark_lord]

i love rondo, but one thing that is frustrating for me is he isn't just inconsistent game to game....but sometimes qtr to qtr within the same game.

[BballTim]

What Rondo needs to improve on is making defenses adjust to him, and when they adjust to him, exploit weaknesses. What he's done well this year so far is shooting the jumper they're giving him. When teams stop giving him that shot because he's being consistent, then the fun should really start with Rondo. But at the moment, teams are simply packing the middle, they try to contain penetration, but at the same time, our inside game also suffers because of it. So for the time being we need better use of our perimeter players, tired of seeing them wide-open and not get passes to help open up the floor both for himself and the big men.

Allen has been hitting a lot of threes, but most of them have been difficult off-balance, and contested shots. Let's see if we start finding him when he actually gets open, see better ball movement from everyone involved.

  I don't think Ray's really been that open. But Rondo seems to be hitting him when he is. I was watching Rondo and Ray in the Miami game(since it was a topic of discussion that day. Ray made 6 threes in that game, Rondo assisted on 5 of them. Rondo was putting the ball right where it needed to be, right when it needed to be there.

[snively]

Call me crazy, but I've been disappointed with Rondo's first three games and feel like it's kind of been confirmation that he's not ready to be a franchise guy.

He's had flashes of brilliance, and incredible quarters. Looking at the numbers it sounds crazy to critique him. But it seems to me like when the teams back is against the wall, when we absolutely need him the most - Rondo doesn't want to be the guy.

That's fine on a team with talent around, but pretty concerning for a guy a team might have to build around.

The idea that a franchise building block player has to be a scorer in halfcourt on an iso play is a misguided one.

While I agree with this, I think the argument he was making was the Rondo has been too inconsistent to be a franchise guy...and I agree with that. 

Rondo has a unique skillset that he can be a franchise player without being a go-to scorer (similar to someone like Dwight Howard in a way).  But, what is holding him back from making that jump is his inconsistency. 

His good games are certainly good enough to be a franchise player, but true franchise players don't have games as bad as Rondo does, and certainly not as often as Rondo does. 

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't think you're going to see consistent all-around offensive production from Rondo until he learns to shoot or the team commits to play up-tempo and makes him the focal point of the offense. 

Right now the offense is as much about getting Ray free off of pin downs and establishing a post game as getting Rondo involved in pick and pops/rolls. There's not always a big role for Rondo (other than passing from perimeter).

I've seen you argue that he should be more defensively consistent in other threads, but I think Rondo's already consistent enough defensively. 

[Kane3387]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

Good point. The consistent players are either small role players or your elite stars. Rondo like Al Jefferson or Danny Granger or Devin Harris, etc. is in the "in between". It's the caliber of player he is and might be for the rest of his career. It's difficult to get "consistent" players that are stars.

I think you got to just throw the NO game out the window. We just didn't bring it. That NO team will a lot of games against teams who don't come ready to play. Perhaps no team in the NBA is playing for pride and respect more then them this season.

[BballTim]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

  I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

[Fafnir]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

Good point. The consistent players are either small role players or your elite stars. Rondo like Al Jefferson or Danny Granger or Devin Harris, etc. is in the "in between". It's the caliber of player he is and might be for the rest of his career. It's difficult to get "consistent" players that are stars.

I think you got to just throw the NO game out the window. We just didn't bring it. That NO team will a lot of games against teams who don't come ready to play. Perhaps no team in the NBA is playing for pride and respect more then them this season.

I think there is a greater spectrum of talent in the NBA, and Rondo is above one dimensional guys like Big Al and Danny Granger. Devin Harris is (or at least was early on) a talented defensive PG who got miscast as some sort of offensive floor leader.

[snively]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

Good point. The consistent players are either small role players or your elite stars. Rondo like Al Jefferson or Danny Granger or Devin Harris, etc. is in the "in between". It's the caliber of player he is and might be for the rest of his career. It's difficult to get "consistent" players that are stars.

Al Jefferson and Devin Harris are not Rondo-caliber.  Not particularly close at the moment either.

[ianboyextreme]

Chris Paul is easily the most overrated player in the game...and doesnt get critiqued the way rondo does...Rondo got blasted for everything even "going in the tank" last season after the Perkins trade....thats reason to trade him for Chris Paul!
..who went completely in the tank when the hornets traded tyson chandler and didnt re sign his buddy janerro pargo, but I digress.
Rondo still has room for improvement and will have the better season this year

Prepare to be blasted because you blasted the one who shouldn't be blasted and not blasting the one who everyone here is blasting.

lol, thou shall not speak ill of the Paul.

[ianboyextreme]

With that said

Deron Williams
32.3mpg 29%fg 84% from the line 14.3ppg 5.7apg 5.0rpg 1steal 5.4TO's

Derrick Rose
35.7 minutes 45%fg 90%ft 18ppg 7ast 2.3rebounds Zilch in steals and 4.7TO's

It's safe to say at the early stage of the season, we have the best point guard in the league and yet we'll still manage to complain about him.

seriously?!  ur claiming we have the best pg, based on THREE games of stats. 

I hope your not one of those dudes who says the season is doomed after only 3 games....

[ianboyextreme]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

  I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Sick stats. That puts things in a clear perspective. TP

[LakersFan_33]

LOL at this thread. Don't get me wrong, Rondo's a great player, but there's a reason why Paul has been regarded as the top pure point guard in the game for years now. Stats are analyzed over the course of seasons and entire careers, not 3 or 2 games. Rondo is a great passer and is great at getting to the basket; Great floor general/offense orchestrator as well. CP3 is good at those things, also, except he can shoot free throws, outside shots and three pointers. He's obviously a more complete player.

[mqtcelticsfan]

The first two games were absolutely a good sign, but the NOH game was a huge step backwards.  He needs to raise his floor, so when he is bad, he is still much better.

I don't know about that, I agree that he needs to keep adjusting to his ever increasing role of being the best player on this team. But I don't think he's noticably more inconsistent than most players in the NBA. Most of the guys I think of as more consistent are either MVP caliber players, or play a much smaller role for their team.

There was so much bad play in the NOH game that I can't even get on Rondo. The entire team looked slow, not just him.

I think he is noticably more inconsistent than most true franchise players (which I can probably count on 2 hands...maybe 1).  And that is the point.  I think we are probably passing in the night here, and talking about different things.  I was explaining what sets him apart from a guy like Paul, who is a true franchise player.  I am not sure you are arguing the same thing.

  I don't think Paul is a true franchise player. But ignoring that, Rondo went for 13/6 in the last game. Last year CP3 had games of 11/8, 7/8, 14/6 (twice), 11/6, 11/5, 8/5, 7/5. 14 games with 9 or fewer points, 23 games where he shot under 38% from the field and made 4 or fewer field goals. Did you see all of these games? Most of them? Any of them? Are we hoping Rondo raises his floor to at least *that* level?

Considering Rondo's floor last year was a 5 game stretch that saw him put up 2/3, 2/9, 0/8, 4/6 and 9/5, I'd say it'd be nice to see him raise his floor to that level.

[dark_lord]

With that said

Deron Williams
32.3mpg 29%fg 84% from the line 14.3ppg 5.7apg 5.0rpg 1steal 5.4TO's

Derrick Rose
35.7 minutes 45%fg 90%ft 18ppg 7ast 2.3rebounds Zilch in steals and 4.7TO's

It's safe to say at the early stage of the season, we have the best point guard in the league and yet we'll still manage to complain about him.

seriously?!  ur claiming we have the best pg, based on THREE games of stats. 

I hope your not one of those dudes who says the season is doomed after only 3 games....

far from it.