take Danny back in time ..........

[gpap]

just for some distraction from our current pain, let's take Danny back in time a couple of years and reverse his horrible judgement ............

put Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins and Nate Nate and even Semih on this team right now and keep Bass and add David West -that team might get some things done, DANNY !!!!!!!

The only Celtic that would be nice to still have on the court is Perkins. I do admit that yesterday I was saying to myself during the Knicks game "boy would it be nice to have Perk right now."

That said, I don't agree with the premise of your post. Semih Erden and Nate Robinson weren't very good players. Tony Allen was OK...not great, and I am not even sure if I'd say he was a good player. He was more of the type of player that would just turn the switch on and off as he pleased.

As for David West, how do you figure that having Perkins, Nate, Erden and Allen would make a difference? Not sure I get your point. Sounded to me like David West was going to Indiana, no matter what.

I think it's time to get over the past and focus on the present and future. Yes, we need a dominant center. But the Perkins trade already happened. Time to move on.

[Moranis]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

[gpap]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

I'll agree with you there. Over the last few seasons, the Celtics just haven't drafted any good talent (though I think J Johnson could be good.)

Didn't Danny have a chance to draft DeAndre Jordan a couple years ago and chose JR Giddens instead? If so, yes....that was bad!!

[bbd24]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

No doubt.  Trading with Phoenix in the draft and getting Rondo in the 20's was dumb.  He should of waited til like the 30's, where he usually drafts since the team is a contender year in and year out.

Drafting a guy like BBD or Al Jefferson was horrid as well.  I mean, who can you trade BBD or Jefferson for ?  Or a Rondo ?

[bbd24]

If the draft picks were a bit higher, and you missed, than start complaining.

[Moranis]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

No doubt.  Trading with Phoenix in the draft and getting Rondo in the 20's was dumb.  He should of waited til like the 30's, where he usually drafts since the team is a contender year in and year out.

Drafting a guy like BBD or Al Jefferson was horrid as well.  I mean, who can you trade BBD or Jefferson for ?  Or a Rondo ?

the thread post was going back 3 years.

2007 - traded the first for Ray Allen, but took Gabe Pruitt at 32 notable after him aside from Glen Davis (who was a good pick) - Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts, Dominic McGuire, Aaron Gray, Ramon Sessions.

2008 - Boston takes JR Giddens, the next 6 picks included these four players all of which would actually help the Celtics this year: Deandre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Mario Chalmers, Omir Asik.

2009 - no picks

2010 - Avery Bradley (raw player coming off a knee surgery) - Still a bit early to tell with this draft, but a couple of notables after him are Greivis Vasquez and Landry Fields.


The Celtics missed badly when drafting the last four seasons (aside from Glen Davis).  Perhaps if Ainge had drafted better the future of the team as a contender wouldn't be ending this summer. 

[BostonArizona]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

No doubt.  Trading with Phoenix in the draft and getting Rondo in the 20's was dumb.  He should of waited til like the 30's, where he usually drafts since the team is a contender year in and year out.

Drafting a guy like BBD or Al Jefferson was horrid as well.  I mean, who can you trade BBD or Jefferson for ?  Or a Rondo ?

the thread post was going back 3 years.

2007 - traded the first for Ray Allen, but took Gabe Pruitt at 32 notable after him aside from Glen Davis (who was a good pick) - Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts, Dominic McGuire, Aaron Gray, Ramon Sessions.

2008 - Boston takes JR Giddens, the next 6 picks included these four players all of which would actually help the Celtics this year: Deandre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Mario Chalmers, Omir Asik.

2009 - no picks

2010 - Avery Bradley (raw player coming off a knee surgery) - Still a bit early to tell with this draft, but a couple of notables after him are Greivis Vasquez and Landry Fields.


The Celtics missed badly when drafting the last four seasons (aside from Glen Davis).  Perhaps if Ainge had drafted better the future of the team as a contender wouldn't be ending this summer. 

How is this horrid drafting? These players were not reached for and were solid value as of draft day.

If you expect to get a player that will be superior to every player drafted after him EVERY TIME you make a pick, you're going to be disappointed no matter what team your talking about.

[Moranis]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

No doubt.  Trading with Phoenix in the draft and getting Rondo in the 20's was dumb.  He should of waited til like the 30's, where he usually drafts since the team is a contender year in and year out.

Drafting a guy like BBD or Al Jefferson was horrid as well.  I mean, who can you trade BBD or Jefferson for ?  Or a Rondo ?

the thread post was going back 3 years.

2007 - traded the first for Ray Allen, but took Gabe Pruitt at 32 notable after him aside from Glen Davis (who was a good pick) - Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts, Dominic McGuire, Aaron Gray, Ramon Sessions.

2008 - Boston takes JR Giddens, the next 6 picks included these four players all of which would actually help the Celtics this year: Deandre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Mario Chalmers, Omir Asik.

2009 - no picks

2010 - Avery Bradley (raw player coming off a knee surgery) - Still a bit early to tell with this draft, but a couple of notables after him are Greivis Vasquez and Landry Fields.


The Celtics missed badly when drafting the last four seasons (aside from Glen Davis).  Perhaps if Ainge had drafted better the future of the team as a contender wouldn't be ending this summer. 

How is this horrid drafting? These players were not reached for and were solid value as of draft day.

If you expect to get a player that will be superior to every player drafted after him EVERY TIME you make a pick, you're going to be disappointed no matter what team your talking about.

Pruitt and Giddens aren't even in the league anymore.  Bradley has looked awful.  That is essentially 2 first round picks that didn't even last 3 years in the league, and Bradley is well on his way to being a third.  That is poor drafting.  You can't hit homeruns every time, but you certainly should expect your first round picks to last at least through their rookie contracts.

[Roy H.]

the bigger problem has been the horrid drafting.

No doubt.  Trading with Phoenix in the draft and getting Rondo in the 20's was dumb.  He should of waited til like the 30's, where he usually drafts since the team is a contender year in and year out.

Drafting a guy like BBD or Al Jefferson was horrid as well.  I mean, who can you trade BBD or Jefferson for ?  Or a Rondo ?

the thread post was going back 3 years.

2007 - traded the first for Ray Allen, but took Gabe Pruitt at 32 notable after him aside from Glen Davis (who was a good pick) - Marc Gasol, Josh McRoberts, Dominic McGuire, Aaron Gray, Ramon Sessions.

2008 - Boston takes JR Giddens, the next 6 picks included these four players all of which would actually help the Celtics this year: Deandre Jordan, Nikola Pekovic, Mario Chalmers, Omir Asik.

2009 - no picks

2010 - Avery Bradley (raw player coming off a knee surgery) - Still a bit early to tell with this draft, but a couple of notables after him are Greivis Vasquez and Landry Fields.


The Celtics missed badly when drafting the last four seasons (aside from Glen Davis).  Perhaps if Ainge had drafted better the future of the team as a contender wouldn't be ending this summer. 

How is this horrid drafting? These players were not reached for and were solid value as of draft day.

If you expect to get a player that will be superior to every player drafted after him EVERY TIME you make a pick, you're going to be disappointed no matter what team your talking about.

Pruitt and Giddens aren't even in the league anymore.  Bradley has looked awful.  That is essentially 2 first round picks that didn't even last 3 years in the league, and Bradley is well on his way to being a third.  That is poor drafting.  You can't hit homeruns every time, but you certainly should expect your first round picks to last at least through their rookie contracts.

Here's a look at how drafted players do, relative to draft position:



Players picked in the very late first / early 2nd are rarely successful.

[lightspeed5]

When will people stop mentioning Perkins? The man would not be on the team this year even without the trade. Perk wanted more money than what we could offer. It is one thing to mention last season, but stop mentioning Perk for the current and future seasons.

you will never convince me that Perk would have left. that was just a smokescreen that Ainge threw up in a pathetic attempt to calm the anger from fans after that trade.

also ............ i probably misunderstand the salary rules, but didn't we offer Jeff Green more for this season than Perk is currently making ?

finally - if threads such as this one anger you so much, don't read them - it's an open forum, i'll discuss what i want.

jeff green was offered more because we could only get him on a 1 year deal. You think he would accept a cheap one year deal? really?

[Celticjay]

I think the biggest blunders were not finding a suitable replacement for Posey after the championship year and then absolutely wasting their mid levels on old bigs in Sheed and JO.  I can't recall who was available those years but if they had just got some more athletic players without so much mileage or injury histories we would have had enough depth to beat the Lakers and possibly get through the Heat last year.  (Maybe)  If we had 2 difference makers Danny may not of traded Perk..

Definitely Agree not showing Tony Allen the love was a big mistake...

This is why I'm a little happier this year as the additions have more athleticism are slightly younger and we can likely count on them actually playing. 

[tenn_smoothie]

just for some distraction from our current pain, let's take Danny back in time a couple of years and reverse his horrible judgement ............

put Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins and Nate Nate and even Semih on this team right now and keep Bass and add David West -that team might get some things done, DANNY !!!!!!!

The only Celtic that would be nice to still have on the court is Perkins. I do admit that yesterday I was saying to myself during the Knicks game "boy would it be nice to have Perk right now."

That said, I don't agree with the premise of your post. Semih Erden and Nate Robinson weren't very good players. Tony Allen was OK...not great, and I am not even sure if I'd say he was a good player. He was more of the type of player that would just turn the switch on and off as he pleased.

As for David West, how do you figure that having Perkins, Nate, Erden and Allen would make a difference? Not sure I get your point. Sounded to me like David West was going to Indiana, no matter what.

I think it's time to get over the past and focus on the present and future. Yes, we need a dominant center. But the Perkins trade already happened. Time to move on.

David West in the Pacers opener tonite - 11 pts & 12 boards incl/ 7 offensive - we could use that. you are correct in that i am not familiar with the inside details on the West flirtation. did he choose Indy for more money, plain & simple ? could we have offered him that much, just for a couple of seasons or would it have mattered ?

Tony Allen is only a leading candidate for Defensive Player of the Year and he, like Perk, was partly responsible for bringing the toughness that we are now lacking a little. with Perk & Tony, no one even thought about pushing us like the Bulls did in that embarrassing game near the end of last season. i'd sure take Tony Allen over what Jeff Greene provided last year.

as for Semih and Nate, i always thought they were decent players. Nate isn't a point and he was somewhat hindered by that responsibility - and he often came up big in big games. Semih could at least move and i think he would have kept improving. i'd sure rather have Nate and Semih than Avery Bradley and Greg Stiemsma.

plus, without all of Danny's clever changes, we would have maintained the chemistry, togetherness and continuity that this group seems to thrive on, exception being i'll admit it was time for Glen Davis to go for his sake as well as ours.

[RebusRankin]

Add DeAndre Jordan for Giddens in 2008 and he has Ray to work with and Perkins to back-up would be a huge boost now.
Draft Fields versus Bradley last year and we have the versatile wing we lack. Given this, chances are we keep Perkins last year and don't use the MLE on Jo.Oh what might have been.

[TripleOT]

Perk ended up signing a quite team friendly deal with OKC (4/$35m).  Considering that a healthy Jeff Green would get at least that much, I don't accept the premise that Perk was not re-signable here in Boston.

If the team had $9m to give a softie like Jeff Green, who never has done a [dang] thing for the Celtics, they should have had the money to retain Perk.

Perk's physicality and toughness is not easily replaced. The guy was still in his mid-20s and figured to have provided value to his team even at $8.5m a year on average. 

Giving away Perk was a huge miscalculation by Ainge and the Celtics. I would have written this post even if I just hadn't watch Perk make a defensive play with 3 seconds left to deny Michael Beasley a game tying basket, and then make two FTs at the other end to secure the victory.

That fact that Perk looks excellent physically and the Celtics have nothing on their roster to show for breaking up their championship nucleus hurts even more.  And now with the Clippers figuring to be a top 10 team this season, it looks like the number one draft pick will be low enough in the first round for Ainge to pick another bum like Giddens and Bradley (although a pull like Ainge made in 20006, when he grabbed the best player in that draft at 21 with Rondo, would certainly help balance up the Perk trade.)     

[Inside-Out]

I think the biggest blunders were not finding a suitable replacement for Posey after the championship year and then absolutely wasting their mid levels on old bigs in Sheed and JO.  I can't recall who was available those years but if they had just got some more athletic players without so much mileage or injury histories we would have had enough depth to beat the Lakers and possibly get through the Heat last year.  (Maybe)  If we had 2 difference makers Danny may not of traded Perk..

Definitely Agree not showing Tony Allen the love was a big mistake...

This is why I'm a little happier this year as the additions have more athleticism are slightly younger and we can likely count on them actually playing. 

Agreed.  Better at that point to have taken a shot at getting another young piece at any position instead of old, broken bigs.

And the last couple of  drafts before 2011 sucked.  Bradley sure sucks.

So this year's team is what I would have liked to have had every year: veterans off the bench who can get it done, and a couple of young prospects to get overexcited about every now and then.