Ever since the big 3, Ainge has been horrid at drafting

[birdman33]

we have been piacking late, so that gets challenging. He found Rondo, Baby, in the second, hopefully Moore can be a good find. Johnson may go via trade. He is real thin

[Moranis]

I think the OP's point is that Ainge used to draft much better in similar positions.  Perkins, West, Allen, and Rondo were all drafted in the 20's.  Jefferson was 15.

Of course he missed badly in 05 (gerald green though did get Gomes at 50) and traded the 06 lottery pick for Telfair (he made up for it by purchasing 21 to take Rondo), which was before the big 3. 

  The 06 pick was to do a Raef for Theo trade, which led to KG. Not exactly a disaster.

It wasn't an immediate turn around so you can't use it like that, especially when you don't know if the deal could have been made using Raef anyway.

  You also can't completely ignore the fact that we saved about $13M in that deal and it put us in a position to make the deals we did and act like it was a straight up draft pick for Telfair deal.

It saved 13 million two years in the future.  Who is to say he couldn't have made the trade for Garnett with Raef and #6 (Roy, Gay, or Foye) or future firsts (and everyone else) rather than Ratliff and Telfair (and everyone else).  That trade didn't save any money that season and was a clear talent downgrade at multiple positions and was really only necessary because he made a bad deal trading Antoine Walker for Raef to begin with. 

Ainge should get absolutely no credit for that trade and wasted the #7 pick in the draft just to undo a previous bad trade.  Ainge did well getting KG and Allen and did well to have Jefferson, Gomes, and West on the roster to make those deals, but Ainge has made a lot of bad deals and hasn't exactly torn up the drafting of late. 

[BballTim]

I think the OP's point is that Ainge used to draft much better in similar positions.  Perkins, West, Allen, and Rondo were all drafted in the 20's.  Jefferson was 15.

Of course he missed badly in 05 (gerald green though did get Gomes at 50) and traded the 06 lottery pick for Telfair (he made up for it by purchasing 21 to take Rondo), which was before the big 3. 

  The 06 pick was to do a Raef for Theo trade, which led to KG. Not exactly a disaster.

It wasn't an immediate turn around so you can't use it like that, especially when you don't know if the deal could have been made using Raef anyway.

  You also can't completely ignore the fact that we saved about $13M in that deal and it put us in a position to make the deals we did and act like it was a straight up draft pick for Telfair deal.

It saved 13 million two years in the future.  Who is to say he couldn't have made the trade for Garnett with Raef and #6 (Roy, Gay, or Foye) or future firsts (and everyone else) rather than Ratliff and Telfair (and everyone else).  That trade didn't save any money that season and was a clear talent downgrade at multiple positions and was really only necessary because he made a bad deal trading Antoine Walker for Raef to begin with. 

Ainge should get absolutely no credit for that trade and wasted the #7 pick in the draft just to undo a previous bad trade.  Ainge did well getting KG and Allen and did well to have Jefferson, Gomes, and West on the roster to make those deals, but Ainge has made a lot of bad deals and hasn't exactly torn up the drafting of late. 

  Yes, Danny made a bad move for trading for Raef. He deserves full credit for extricating himself from that contract in a way that set up our flexibility for future moves. But whatever you thought of the Antoine trade, claiming that trade was a straight up pick for Telfair deal is silly.

[clover]

Was Danny more attentive to the draft before he had a good team?  Has he somehow lost his touch?

Perk didn't look too good his first couple of years, and probability distributions are typically uneven.  He's a bit of  gambler, so it is not surprising he's had both busts and great successes, but that's probably a good strategy for the task at hand.  He's tended to do relatively a little better in the 2nd round, for whatever reason.

[Brendan]

For whatever reason he's much better in the second, than the late first. Since big 3 late first have been shots at filling needs IMO - which is always silly. For the love of Baby - he was redundant with a better player on the team (Powe) and came instead of Marc Gasol.

Pruitt was terrible.

Hindsight is 20/20 though. He's used the draft as a way to make the team better fairly well, even during the Big 3 era. I'd put him top 10-15 in drafting, but not top 10.

[LooseCannon]

I think his MO was draft the best regardless of position. How'd that work out?

Arguably, drafting Giddens because of a need for a backup wing was a mistake because it went away from that strategy.  In recent drafts, it feels like Ainge has been going for players who can contribute immediately if they pan out instead of grabbing players who are more likely to be useful and have a higher upside but are much less likely to contribute as a rookie.  Taking Avery Bradley, a top-rate talent who may not be a solid rotation player until he is 23 years old, went away from that recent trend.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Bill Walker was a good draft choice any way you look at it.

[Snakehead]

I think the OP's point is that Ainge used to draft much better in similar positions.  Perkins, West, Allen, and Rondo were all drafted in the 20's.  Jefferson was 15.

Of course he missed badly in 05 (gerald green though did get Gomes at 50) and traded the 06 lottery pick for Telfair (he made up for it by purchasing 21 to take Rondo), which was before the big 3. 

  The 06 pick was to do a Raef for Theo trade, which led to KG. Not exactly a disaster.

It wasn't an immediate turn around so you can't use it like that, especially when you don't know if the deal could have been made using Raef anyway.

  You also can't completely ignore the fact that we saved about $13M in that deal and it put us in a position to make the deals we did and act like it was a straight up draft pick for Telfair deal.

It saved 13 million two years in the future.  Who is to say he couldn't have made the trade for Garnett with Raef and #6 (Roy, Gay, or Foye) or future firsts (and everyone else) rather than Ratliff and Telfair (and everyone else).  That trade didn't save any money that season and was a clear talent downgrade at multiple positions and was really only necessary because he made a bad deal trading Antoine Walker for Raef to begin with. 

Ainge should get absolutely no credit for that trade and wasted the #7 pick in the draft just to undo a previous bad trade.  Ainge did well getting KG and Allen and did well to have Jefferson, Gomes, and West on the roster to make those deals, but Ainge has made a lot of bad deals and hasn't exactly torn up the drafting of late. 

  Yes, Danny made a bad move for trading for Raef. He deserves full credit for extricating himself from that contract in a way that set up our flexibility for future moves. But whatever you thought of the Antoine trade, claiming that trade was a straight up pick for Telfair deal is silly.

Agreed.  As a GM you will make mistakes, you don't have the benefit of hindsight, and I for one really appreciate that Ainge figured a way to get out of a bad situation and create potential for a positive one (which totally happend) instead of just riding it out.  So many GMs do that, either because they are not that great at their job or just stubborness.

[Kane3387]

Semih was a success in the Giddens draft.  Lester Hudson looks like he can play, and could be in the league next year.  (At last look, he was leading the Chinese Basketball Association in scoring).  Harangody could last for a bit as an end of roster player.

We'll see on JJ and Moore. 

So, his misses are really Giddens, and potentially Bradley.  Giddens didn't last, but he was the 30th pick in the draft, in a draft where Danny repeatedly said he didn't like the talent.  Sure, a lot of us wanted Chalmers, CDR, or Jordan, but Danny wanted a more mature guy who could compete right away.  It didn't work out.  With Bradley, Danny took upside.  It's clear Bradley has the athleticism and the defense to stick in the league; time will tell if the offense is there.

It's hard to condemn somebody for their drafting when they've picked 19th, 30th, and in the 50s.  Danny doesn't have any huge success stories, but historically, very few GMs have.

People are really hard on Bradley on here. I think the kid will be a player for us this season. His man defense is arguably the best on the court. He hit a nice three in rhythm last night and his first step is explosive. I think his confidence will improve over the season and as a result his offensive game will as well.

[bbd24]

Semih was a success in the Giddens draft.  Lester Hudson looks like he can play, and could be in the league next year.  (At last look, he was leading the Chinese Basketball Association in scoring).  Harangody could last for a bit as an end of roster player.

We'll see on JJ and Moore. 

So, his misses are really Giddens, and potentially Bradley.  Giddens didn't last, but he was the 30th pick in the draft, in a draft where Danny repeatedly said he didn't like the talent.  Sure, a lot of us wanted Chalmers, CDR, or Jordan, but Danny wanted a more mature guy who could compete right away.  It didn't work out.  With Bradley, Danny took upside.  It's clear Bradley has the athleticism and the defense to stick in the league; time will tell if the offense is there.

It's hard to condemn somebody for their drafting when they've picked 19th, 30th, and in the 50s.  Danny doesn't have any huge success stories, but historically, very few GMs have.

People are really hard on Bradley on here. I think the kid will be a player for us this season. His man defense is arguably the best on the court. He hit a nice three in rhythm last night and his first step is explosive. I think his confidence will improve over the season and as a result his offensive game will as well.

I think it's a huge mistake to count out a 21 year old Bradley.  Great pick by Ainge IMO.  I disagree that it will be this year that he helps, but I can easily see him as a player 2-3 years down the line.  The talent is there, and now it's up to the player & the coaches to continue developing it.

I'm all for it happening sooner for the youngster, but don't see it this year on this team as is.

[LB3533]

This thread is just a case of "being spoiled" by Danny's tenure here in Boston.

The guys has done a fantastic job, overall.

He's done an excellent job, if you consider what he has had to work with.

It was rough times, earlier on, but it's been pretty fun the last 5-6 years.

[Neurotic Guy]

I think the OP's point is that Ainge used to draft much better in similar positions.  Perkins, West, Allen, and Rondo were all drafted in the 20's.  Jefferson was 15.

Of course he missed badly in 05 (gerald green though did get Gomes at 50) and traded the 06 lottery pick for Telfair (he made up for it by purchasing 21 to take Rondo), which was before the big 3. 

Green is a miss in hindsight, but I think Celtic Nation would have crucified DA at the time had he not selected Green.  It's true that many were hoping Indy would take GG instead of Granger, but when GG fell, most fans were ecstatic. 

In a way, it's like saying Oden was a bad selection by Portland -- even though virtually every GM would have made the same choice (and anyone who wouldn't have selected him first would absolutely have selected him second).  Is 'bad choice' only determined by hindsight? Can't blame a GM (IMO) if he makes a consesus correct choice that just doesn't pan out.

[Snakehead]

I think the OP's point is that Ainge used to draft much better in similar positions.  Perkins, West, Allen, and Rondo were all drafted in the 20's.  Jefferson was 15.

Of course he missed badly in 05 (gerald green though did get Gomes at 50) and traded the 06 lottery pick for Telfair (he made up for it by purchasing 21 to take Rondo), which was before the big 3. 

Green is a miss in hindsight, but I think Celtic Nation would have crucified DA at the time had he not selected Green.  It's true that many were hoping Indy would take GG instead of Granger, but when GG fell, most fans were ecstatic. 

In a way, it's like saying Oden was a bad selection by Portland -- even though virtually every GM would have made the same choice (and anyone who wouldn't have selected him first would absolutely have selected him second).  Is 'bad choice' only determined by hindsight? Can't blame a GM (IMO) if he makes a consesus correct choice that just doesn't pan out.

To prove your point, I remember Doc talking about the Oden vs Durant draft choice and saying that the Celtics would have chose Oden if they had the first pick and anyone who said otherwise was just using hindsight.  Some within the organization tried to claim otherwise but you know that's all hindsight.  Oden was the right pick and if he stayed healthy would be dominant.

[CelticsFanNC]

All of them late picks; what do you expect? I believe most of those picks remain in the league.

  Exactly.  Picks in the late first round are a crap shoot.  Not a single pick out of the lottery is a sure things and even some of them bust.

  Bradley has talent and could make some sort of an impact this season for the Celtic's or elsewhere.

  The toughest thing for the guys Ainge has been picking in the late first round or second round is that they are coming to a contending so they don't see the court much if at all.  Guys drafted there all need work on certain areas of their games.  If they didn't have issues they'd have been picked higher. Many of those issues pertain to not being able to play NBA defense and that wont get you off the pine playing for Doc Rivers.  It's hard to improve when you don't see action in live games.

[bruinsandceltics]

We are ignoring the fact that we aren't able to develop these picks like we used to when he hit all the time. Al, Perk, Rondo, etc. all got to play in games regularly.

All of our recent picks have had to sit on the bench or in the D-League.....and there is a significant different.

You can have all the talent in the world, but development is key too.