Would you actively shop KG/Ray now? I personally wouldn't

[indeedproceed]

It depends on the offer for KG, if Toronto offers Amir Johnson and a 1st round pick, yes I would trade him (cause he really sucks right now and don't be too ignorant Celtic fans, be open minded and in reality). But if I was offered Magetter and a 2nd round pick for Ray Allen, Heavens NO! Ray Allen will stay Green until his retirement (or a LeBron/Melo/Superstar offer, obviously)

KG sucks?!?!?!?!

I think its fairly easy to say that he isn't worth his $21 million contract but he is still one of the top defensive PFs in the league, has the sweetest outside shot ever seen on a 7'1" guy, can give you 14/8 in 30 MPG and is an unquestioned warrior and leader that you want young players to emulate.

I don't think he comes even close to the word sucks.

Is disagree that he wasn't worth his contract.  He was the cornerstone for a championship team and was the best defensive player in the league.

Obviously, he's not making 21 million next year, but I would say that he earned his contract

I don't think you're disagreeing here. KG obviously earned his contract on a whole, 'big picture' kind of view. What Nick was saying is that his production this year will be a pretty far cry from the 21 million he'll be paid.

[Q_FBE]

I would rather keep KG and Ray Allen and resign them to one year deals at lesser money until they retire or we can build up young assets like Danny did in the mid 2000s then engineer a killer deal for Blake Griffen.

[BballTim]

It depends on the offer for KG, if Toronto offers Amir Johnson and a 1st round pick, yes I would trade him (cause he really sucks right now and don't be too ignorant Celtic fans, be open minded and in reality). But if I was offered Magetter and a 2nd round pick for Ray Allen, Heavens NO! Ray Allen will stay Green until his retirement (or a LeBron/Melo/Superstar offer, obviously)

KG sucks?!?!?!?!

I think its fairly easy to say that he isn't worth his $21 million contract but he is still one of the top defensive PFs in the league, has the sweetest outside shot ever seen on a 7'1" guy, can give you 14/8 in 30 MPG and is an unquestioned warrior and leader that you want young players to emulate.

I don't think he comes even close to the word sucks.

Is disagree that he wasn't worth his contract.  He was the cornerstone for a championship team and was the best defensive player in the league.

Obviously, he's not making 21 million next year, but I would say that he earned his contract

I don't think you're disagreeing here. KG obviously earned his contract on a whole, 'big picture' kind of view. What Nick was saying is that his production this year will be a pretty far cry from the 21 million he'll be paid.

  I think that if KG is healthy this year he'll contribute a lot more to the Celts than a fair amount of max players will to their teams.

[MBz]

I think the question is this...do you think the celtics can win it all this year? If the answer is no, there is no reason not to shop KG.  If we can get young talent/draft picks in return for KG's expiring contract then you make the trade.  I think KG is going to retire after this year anyways, might as well get some value for him.  Ray Allen is different, I think Ray Allen can continue to contribute at this rate after this season and I think he'd be willing to sign a cheap deal to stick around.  Now if you think the C's can compete for a title this year, then you hold on to them.  The improved bench sould help.  Bass, Wilcox and Dooling should end up being much more consistent than anything we had on the bench last year.  Depending on Marquis Daniels ability to be our back up swing, we should have a much better rotation of 9 then we had during the playoffs last year.  I am not sure how I feel yet, we are going to have the same problem we had last year and that's interior scoring.  Even though we're deeper, we still don't have anybody to really score in the post and I think that's going to hurt us all year long.

[nickagneta]

It depends on the offer for KG, if Toronto offers Amir Johnson and a 1st round pick, yes I would trade him (cause he really sucks right now and don't be too ignorant Celtic fans, be open minded and in reality). But if I was offered Magetter and a 2nd round pick for Ray Allen, Heavens NO! Ray Allen will stay Green until his retirement (or a LeBron/Melo/Superstar offer, obviously)

KG sucks?!?!?!?!

I think its fairly easy to say that he isn't worth his $21 million contract but he is still one of the top defensive PFs in the league, has the sweetest outside shot ever seen on a 7'1" guy, can give you 14/8 in 30 MPG and is an unquestioned warrior and leader that you want young players to emulate.

I don't think he comes even close to the word sucks.

Is disagree that he wasn't worth his contract.  He was the cornerstone for a championship team and was the best defensive player in the league.

Obviously, he's not making 21 million next year, but I would say that he earned his contract

I don't think you're disagreeing here. KG obviously earned his contract on a whole, 'big picture' kind of view. What Nick was saying is that his production this year will be a pretty far cry from the 21 million he'll be paid.

  I think that if KG is healthy this year he'll contribute a lot more to the Celts than a fair amount of max players will to their teams.

Moving the goalposts. What exactly does the fact that KG will play better or give more to their teams than other max level contract players have to do with whether KG is currently worth $21 million a year?

So KG gives the C's more than Rashard Lewis does the Wiz or Baron Davis does the Cavs. Who cares? He still isn't worth $21 million and it doesn't increase his value as an asset to the Celtics as either a player or a trade chip any.

[Celtics4ever]

I think we will break down over the schedule.   Short seasons do favor veterans but only if they are healthy.   Can our guys last?   

[BballTim]

It depends on the offer for KG, if Toronto offers Amir Johnson and a 1st round pick, yes I would trade him (cause he really sucks right now and don't be too ignorant Celtic fans, be open minded and in reality). But if I was offered Magetter and a 2nd round pick for Ray Allen, Heavens NO! Ray Allen will stay Green until his retirement (or a LeBron/Melo/Superstar offer, obviously)

KG sucks?!?!?!?!

I think its fairly easy to say that he isn't worth his $21 million contract but he is still one of the top defensive PFs in the league, has the sweetest outside shot ever seen on a 7'1" guy, can give you 14/8 in 30 MPG and is an unquestioned warrior and leader that you want young players to emulate.

I don't think he comes even close to the word sucks.

Is disagree that he wasn't worth his contract.  He was the cornerstone for a championship team and was the best defensive player in the league.

Obviously, he's not making 21 million next year, but I would say that he earned his contract

I don't think you're disagreeing here. KG obviously earned his contract on a whole, 'big picture' kind of view. What Nick was saying is that his production this year will be a pretty far cry from the 21 million he'll be paid.

  I think that if KG is healthy this year he'll contribute a lot more to the Celts than a fair amount of max players will to their teams.

Moving the goalposts. What exactly does the fact that KG will play better or give more to their teams than other max level contract players have to do with whether KG is currently worth $21 million a year?

So KG gives the C's more than Rashard Lewis does the Wiz or Baron Davis does the Cavs. Who cares? He still isn't worth $21 million and it doesn't increase his value as an asset to the Celtics as either a player or a trade chip any.

  First of all, I wasn't moving the goalposts, I wasn't even commenting on what you said. Secondly Baron Davis is (or is close to) a vet min guy, not a max guy. I wasn't talking about bottom of the barrel types. He's still one of the better players in the league if you take both ends of the court into account. You say he isn't worth the money, and I don't really disagree with your comment, but how are you measuring what a player's worth? In other words, there weren't any goalposts to move.

  There are probably other sources, but go to the salaries page on hoopshype and check out all of the (non-amnesty) players making more than $15M. He's no worse than middle of the pack, and arguably better than that.

[LooseCannon]

I think the question is this...do you think the celtics can win it all this year? If the answer is no, there is no reason not to shop KG. 

I actually think it is possible that the Celtics could be a contender to win it all next season with KG still on the roster.  So, I don't think it is correct to trade KG for whatever you can get.  Sure, you should always look around and continually reassess the value of every team asset.

I also don't think it is correct to assume this will be his last season.  In 2010-2011, he was an All-Star and was possibly the best big man on defense not named Dwight Howard.  I think it is not impossible that he remains an above average PF who is first or second team NBA All-Defensive and I can't see him retiring if he still performs at that level.  I also think it is possible you see negligible drop-off in his performance compared to last season.

A lot of people talk as if Garnett was massively overpaid.  He wasn't.  It's not as if he was producing at a level that was only worth $8 million.  Wages of Win even has Garnett being underpaid, producing almost $4 million more value than his actual salary.  This guy isn't toast and it would be a huge mistake to treat him as if this is the last season where he will be capable of being a key starter on a championship contender.

Sure, if the team isn't contending and you get a good offer, you should consider trading him.  But, depending on how the free agent market shakes out, the right step moving forward might be to give him the same sort of deal that Ray Allen received a year ago, $10 million or so for a one-year contract with a one-year option.  KG and RA may be good enough that giving them short contracts and being able to actually consummate next year's equivalent of the David West trade, alongside a good draft and at least one out of Johnson/Moore/Bradley showing themselves to be solid rotation players, extends the window of being longshot contenders who can't be completely ruled out.

Cap flexibility doesn't just mean clearing space to sign a max free agent.  It means the rosy scenario I described is also an option if things go right.