what does Your rebulding celtics team for the 2012-2013 season look like

[TheTruthFot18]

1. Rondo
2. Austin Rivers
3. Jeff Green
4. Josh Smith
5. Jj Johnson

Doc talked about wanting to install a new offense in camp but there not being enough time. A lot if players on the team mentioned running a faster system this year. Next year we go all in with Rondo and grab some young athletic guys to play d and run with rondo. Smith either comes here in a trade or via amnesy cut next year after he complains and atl decides they want to save money. Rivers comes here after we package picks to move up. Jjj adds about ten or fifteen lbs of muscle then becomes a channing frye type player in our new uptempo offense. Maybe moore or bradley steps up and we don't need to move up to get rivers. In that case we pick some athletic bigs like plumlee or the dude from vandy.

I want this team please!!! Talk about young fast and athletic.

[PosImpos]

PG - Ramon Sessions / Keyon Dooling
SG - O.J. Mayo / E'Twaun Moore
SF - Paul Pierce / Jeff Green
PF - Jared Sullinger / Brandon Bass / JaJuan Johnson
C - Chris Wilcox / Ian Mahinmi


[assumes on draft night Danny trades Rondo + Bradley + Bos 1st + Clips 1st to move into the top 5 and take Sullinger, or some other top prospect]


yay, time to be awful for a few years!  potential!

Hey, in a way it is refreshing to be in complete rebuilding mode/have a ****ty trade. Getting young talent will eventually lead to blockbuster trades...Especially with Ainge.

indeed, you  have to be terrible for a while before you can be great again.  if you just spend money for the sake of putting out recognizable names (e.g. spending lots of money on Gerald Wallace to start him at PF, ahem), you're just gonna be middle-of-the-road at best.

It's clear that there's a serious problem with the way the NBA draft is set up when a significant portion of a team's fan base actually start to root for the team to get terrible so they can have a chance at winning the ping pong balls.

Let's get rid of the draft lottery for the worst teams  and make a random order for all thirty teams in the league.  Better yet, I wouldn't mind seeing the draft eliminated all together.

I'm not exactly sure how to work out the details, but for me the honor, integrity, and competitive spirit of what sports are all about are getting lost if half the league's goal is trying to race to the bottom.  

im with you.  if you're not a contender, or a couple moves / a year or two of development away from being one, it's in your best interest as a team to lose as many games as possible so you can have better draft position.

im not sure what the right solution to that issue is, though.  i don't believe that eliminating the draft or making the order random is the right one.  there shouldn't be any chance that a team that's already stacked gets a top talent in the draft, unless they've acquired a draft pick from a lesser team several years prior (i.e., smart dealing).

You misunderstood my point.  I'm not in favor of tanking as a strategy for improving your team.  

I'm in favor of smart gms trying to improve their teams by, well, getting better.  

Sure, I guess there have been a couple of isolated examples of teams getting lucky through the draft, but, by in large, I think the tanking strategy works much more commonly to keep bad teams bad.  Unfortunately, poorly managed teams get away with this strategy because the fan base is fooled by the false belief that if they just cross their fingers, they'll eventually win a superstar in the lottery and become a perennial championship contender.  

show me a team that is really good right now that wasn't downright awful for at least one season to get their franchise guy.  


the thunder are a very, very well managed team and they had to be really bad for 2-3 seasons (at least) in order to get where they are now.  even the Heat had to be really bad for a season to get Wade.  the only team that doesn't fit the bill is the Lakers and well . . . nobody can operate the way the Lakers do but the Lakers.

[TheTruthFot18]

PG: Rondo /dooling, Bradley
SG: Ray/ Mayo (6th man and starter next year)
SF: Pierce/ Green (transition for Green to start by next year)
PF: Josh Smith/ Bass, JJJ
C: Lopez/Lopez Varejo??? IDK the center availability is slim since we are not likely to drop 12-15 mil like other teams. I really don't know here. But keep wilcox around, like the rebounding

[Celtics18]

PG - Ramon Sessions / Keyon Dooling
SG - O.J. Mayo / E'Twaun Moore
SF - Paul Pierce / Jeff Green
PF - Jared Sullinger / Brandon Bass / JaJuan Johnson
C - Chris Wilcox / Ian Mahinmi


[assumes on draft night Danny trades Rondo + Bradley + Bos 1st + Clips 1st to move into the top 5 and take Sullinger, or some other top prospect]


yay, time to be awful for a few years!  potential!

Hey, in a way it is refreshing to be in complete rebuilding mode/have a ****ty trade. Getting young talent will eventually lead to blockbuster trades...Especially with Ainge.

indeed, you  have to be terrible for a while before you can be great again.  if you just spend money for the sake of putting out recognizable names (e.g. spending lots of money on Gerald Wallace to start him at PF, ahem), you're just gonna be middle-of-the-road at best.

It's clear that there's a serious problem with the way the NBA draft is set up when a significant portion of a team's fan base actually start to root for the team to get terrible so they can have a chance at winning the ping pong balls.

Let's get rid of the draft lottery for the worst teams  and make a random order for all thirty teams in the league.  Better yet, I wouldn't mind seeing the draft eliminated all together.

I'm not exactly sure how to work out the details, but for me the honor, integrity, and competitive spirit of what sports are all about are getting lost if half the league's goal is trying to race to the bottom.  

im with you.  if you're not a contender, or a couple moves / a year or two of development away from being one, it's in your best interest as a team to lose as many games as possible so you can have better draft position.

im not sure what the right solution to that issue is, though.  i don't believe that eliminating the draft or making the order random is the right one.  there shouldn't be any chance that a team that's already stacked gets a top talent in the draft, unless they've acquired a draft pick from a lesser team several years prior (i.e., smart dealing).

You misunderstood my point.  I'm not in favor of tanking as a strategy for improving your team.  

I'm in favor of smart gms trying to improve their teams by, well, getting better.  

Sure, I guess there have been a couple of isolated examples of teams getting lucky through the draft, but, by in large, I think the tanking strategy works much more commonly to keep bad teams bad.  Unfortunately, poorly managed teams get away with this strategy because the fan base is fooled by the false belief that if they just cross their fingers, they'll eventually win a superstar in the lottery and become a perennial championship contender.  

show me a team that is really good right now that wasn't downright awful for at least one season to get their franchise guy.  


the thunder are a very, very well managed team and they had to be really bad for 2-3 seasons (at least) in order to get where they are now.  even the Heat had to be really bad for a season to get Wade.  the only team that doesn't fit the bill is the Lakers and well . . . nobody can operate the way the Lakers do but the Lakers.

I know they are not really good right now, but the '04 Pistons didn't win a title by getting lucky in the draft. 

Although, the Heat got Wade through the draft, it wasn't until they added James that they became a contender.  They spent the last few seasons before that hovering in that low seed playoff zone that you are so against.

Anyway, I think we have our cornerstone player for the future.  Of course, Rajon Rondo won't lead the Celtics to titles if you surround him with all scrubs.  There's no player in the league right now who can do that. 

However, get him a good cast of shooters, athletes and a nice, young big and Rondo will be the kind of player who makes teammates better.  Along with Doc as the coach, I believe that a Rondo led team can transition to a contending team after the big three leave. 

It'll help that he's got a couple of more years of Paul Pierce to help with that transition. 

[Q_FBE]

It is not possible for me to say. I wish we could get Chris Paul and Blake Griffen in a Mega Sign and Trade deal with the Clippers; Pick up Dwight Howard in FA; get Jared Dudley, Travis Outlaw, AK47, and Pau Gasol in FA pickups.

How are we going to get in a position to draft Austin Rivers?

[PosImpos]

I know they are not really good right now, but the '04 Pistons didn't win a title by getting lucky in the draft.

The '04 Pistons are the exception that proves the rule.  I don't think you can expect to replicate what they did to win a title.  I can't think of another title team really similar to them at all.  Also, they only won one title and only seriously contended for a couple years after that.  That's fine, but ideally I think you aim to be relevant for 5+ years if you want the greatest chance at winning it all.  The Mavericks were one of the best teams of the decade and yet they only snagged one title and one other Finals berth in that span of great success.  

Although, the Heat got Wade through the draft, it wasn't until they added James that they became a contender.  They spent the last few seasons before that hovering in that low seed playoff zone that you are so against.

James and Bosh would never have come to Miami if Wade weren't there already, and if Pat Riley hadn't spent every year since the '06 title selling Wade on the plan for bringing in his buddies and getting Wade to convince his buddies to join him.

It all started with that #4 pick that turned into a superstar.

Anyway, I think we have our cornerstone player for the future.  Of course, Rajon Rondo won't lead the Celtics to titles if you surround him with all scrubs.  There's no player in the league right now who can do that.  

However, get him a good cast of shooters, athletes and a nice, young big and Rondo will be the kind of player who makes teammates better.  Along with Doc as the coach, I believe that a Rondo led team can transition to a contending team after the big three leave.  

Rondo is a very nice player, there's no doubt about it.  But to me he isn't THE guy on a contending team.  If he's your clear cut best player on both ends of the floor, you're not going to be much better than a perennial 8th-5th seed.  But Rondo is good enough that if you just surround him with capable role players (shooters / finishers), you can probably make the playoffs every year.

Therein lies the problem.  If you want to get a top seed and seriously contend for a title, you need to put true elite talent around Rondo (ideally multiple scoring options).  Yet, since Boston is not a free agent destination of note, the only way to get guys like that here is to draft one or two stars and then develop a winning culture with the lure of "potential."  

The only way you can count on drafting elite talent is to pick in the top 5 for at least a couple years (and even then there's no guarantee).  But if Rondo is here, most likely we're not going to be selecting in the top 5 unless we surround him with total scrubs.

Long story short, I'm not sure I see a realistic road to perennial contention if we're rebuilding around Rondo.

[Moranis]

Since everyone is making totally unrealistic lineups, I might as well throw my totally unrealistic set of trades/moves in there as well.

Make all these trades this season

with Pacers - Rondo for Collison, George, and Hibbert
with Bulls - Allen for Korver, Asik, Bogans, and 2012 first (the highest Bulls pick)
with Hawks - Garnett for Smith and Hinrich (or Williams)
with Lakers - O'Neal for 2012 first (using Odom trade exception)

Then use the trade exception from O'Neal to acquire Jason Thompson from Sacramento for the Lakers or Bulls 2012 first, Moore, and cash.

Next summer sign OJ Mayo (if not matched), Landry Fields, or Evan Turner (if available), to be the SG of the future to go along with Collison, George, Smith, and Hibbert with solid depth of Green, Bradley, Thompson, and the 2 firsts next summer.

[Smokeeye123]

I know they are not really good right now, but the '04 Pistons didn't win a title by getting lucky in the draft.

The '04 Pistons are the exception that proves the rule.  I don't think you can expect to replicate what they did to win a title.  I can't think of another title team really similar to them at all.  Also, they only won one title and only seriously contended for a couple years after that.  That's fine, but ideally I think you aim to be relevant for 5+ years if you want the greatest chance at winning it all.  The Mavericks were one of the best teams of the decade and yet they only snagged one title and one other Finals berth in that span of great success.  

Although, the Heat got Wade through the draft, it wasn't until they added James that they became a contender.  They spent the last few seasons before that hovering in that low seed playoff zone that you are so against.

James and Bosh would never have come to Miami if Wade weren't there already, and if Pat Riley hadn't spent every year since the '06 title selling Wade on the plan for bringing in his buddies and getting Wade to convince his buddies to join him.

It all started with that #4 pick that turned into a superstar.

Anyway, I think we have our cornerstone player for the future.  Of course, Rajon Rondo won't lead the Celtics to titles if you surround him with all scrubs.  There's no player in the league right now who can do that.  

However, get him a good cast of shooters, athletes and a nice, young big and Rondo will be the kind of player who makes teammates better.  Along with Doc as the coach, I believe that a Rondo led team can transition to a contending team after the big three leave.  

Rondo is a very nice player, there's no doubt about it.  But to me he isn't THE guy on a contending team.  If he's your clear cut best player on both ends of the floor, you're not going to be much better than a perennial 8th-5th seed.  But Rondo is good enough that if you just surround him with capable role players (shooters / finishers), you can probably make the playoffs every year.

Therein lies the problem.  If you want to get a top seed and seriously contend for a title, you need to put true elite talent around Rondo (ideally multiple scoring options).  Yet, since Boston is not a free agent destination of note, the only way to get guys like that here is to draft one or two stars and then develop a winning culture with the lure of "potential."  

The only way you can count on drafting elite talent is to pick in the top 5 for at least a couple years (and even then there's no guarantee).  But if Rondo is here, most likely we're not going to be selecting in the top 5 unless we surround him with total scrubs.

Long story short, I'm not sure I see a realistic road to perennial contention if we're rebuilding around Rondo.

I don't think the C's would necessarily be rebuilding specifically around Rondo if they kept him on the roster...I mean he's a solid player at a decent price. If they can't trade him for something good, then they might as well keep him.

[PosImpos]

I don't think the C's would necessarily be rebuilding specifically around Rondo if they kept him on the roster...I mean he's a solid player at a decent price. If they can't trade him for something good, then they might as well keep him.

the point is, if you keep Rondo on your roster and you make any sort of attempt to build a decent team with him as the main guy, you're destined for mediocrity.

so unless the plan is hold onto Rondo and tank by putting D-leaguers / borderline talents around him, i'm not seeing the endgame of keeping him.  now, it's possible that Danny plans to do exactly that. use our cap space to take on bad deals from other teams coupled with low risk / high upside young players and tank for a couple years with Rondo at the helm.  

but that plan doesn't strike me as bold enough for Danny Ainge.  he wants to get back to the top sooner rather than later, and i think he'll make big, widely unpopular moves to get there -- including trading Rondo.

[chambers]

Complete pipe dream but:

PG: Rondo/Ronny Beaubois/Patrick Mills
SG: Mayo/Austin Rivers/Etwaun Moore
SF: Pierce/Green/Marquis
PF:David West/Bass (feel like we can swing something here with Indiana and Larry Bird to get West for the 2nd year of his contract if we shipped Bass+Moore or JJJ if one of them has a breakout rookie year.
C:Dwight Howard/Hibbert.

Hopefully KG and Ray would consider signing on the cheap to keep our bench very deep. One can only hope.

[Who]

If the Celtics cannot acquire a superstar, I want to see them try to build a team like the 2004 Detroit Pistons around Rajon Rondo.

I don't want a full fledged rebuilding process.

[Celtics18]

I don't think the C's would necessarily be rebuilding specifically around Rondo if they kept him on the roster...I mean he's a solid player at a decent price. If they can't trade him for something good, then they might as well keep him.

the point is, if you keep Rondo on your roster and you make any sort of attempt to build a decent team with him as the main guy, you're destined for mediocrity.

so unless the plan is hold onto Rondo and tank by putting D-leaguers / borderline talents around him, i'm not seeing the endgame of keeping him.  now, it's possible that Danny plans to do exactly that. use our cap space to take on bad deals from other teams coupled with low risk / high upside young players and tank for a couple years with Rondo at the helm.  

but that plan doesn't strike me as bold enough for Danny Ainge.  he wants to get back to the top sooner rather than later, and i think he'll make big, widely unpopular moves to get there -- including trading Rondo.

The truth is that in today's NBA you can't expect to win titles based on having one "transcendent" (to use a word that folks like to bandy about) superstar.

You generally need at least two top players and/or a very solid supporting cast of top level talent, a la last year's Mavs or our Celtics.  We can even throw in the recent Laker champs, not to mention the Spurs. 

My point is whoever Danny builds a team around, having one superstar player isn't enough to get it done any way.  I'd prefer to build a really strong team around Rondo.  We are going to have the money to spend to build.  Just because other GMs around the league have been spending their money unwisely doesn't mean we have to spend it all on questionable guys for long term contracts just to get to the salary cap.

Of course, he'll have to take some risks on guys.  You just gotta hope they are the right guys.   

[Smokeeye123]

Do you guys consider Kevin Love a franchise player?...We could always sign him...

[chambers]

Do you guys consider Kevin Love a franchise player?...We could always sign him...

He's a franchise player but the only way we can sign him is if the T wolves don't match our offer. Plus I'm pretty sure they can offer him more money because of Bird rights.
He's a restricted FA unfortunately.

[JOMVP]

I'm gonna play fantasy GM and devise a plan that isn't possible really! Hopefully, since it doesn't look like Dwight Howard will be traded this season and Deron Williams hasnt signed his extension you can have this:

Deron Williams/Dooling
OJ Mayo/Ray Allen
Granger/Pierce
Bass/KG
Howard/Wilcox

Danny swings a three way trade:

Indiana gets: Rondo/Moore/S&T Jeff Green/Our first round pick.
Memphis gets: Our clippers first round pick/Dahntay Jones from IND
Boston gets: Granger/OJ Mayo

KG and Allen return on reduced contracts and reduced roles.

Championships.