what does Your rebulding celtics team for the 2012-2013 season look like

[indeedproceed]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

[nickagneta]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

What? No Ilyasova for the all-binkie Boston Celtics?

[indeedproceed]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

What? No Ilyasova for the all-binkie Boston Celtics?

Signed as a free agent at the conclusion of the season for a vet minimum contract.

You might as well just tell me how much you'd love that to be the outlook going forward. We both know you think it rocks.

[PosImpos]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

okay, now we just need to figure out who's going to get compromising photos of the GMs / owners of those other teams, not to mention Dwight Howard, and I think we can make it happen.

[nickagneta]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

What? No Ilyasova for the all-binkie Boston Celtics?

Signed as a free agent at the conclusion of the season for a vet minimum contract.

You might as well just tell me how much you'd love that to be the outlook going forward. We both know you think it rocks.

Oh absolutely!!! LUV IT!!!

[Celtics18]

In the case of the Mavericks and the Celtics, they drafted Nowitzki and Pierce 9th and 10th respectively and then waited over a decade for those stars to lead them to a title.  Management for both those teams had to make a lot of sound personnel moves for them to become titlists.  Both Pierce and Nowitzki have always been very good players, but they've had to work hard and stay healthy (and win titles) to really get placed in that elite category. 

It seems a little too narrow to me to say that the primary event that led to the Celtics' 2008 title and the Mavericks 2011 title was each of those teams tanking back in '97.  Sure, those teams being bad that year landed them their respective stars but it took a lot more than that along the way to finally build a champion. 

If I've got to wait 14 years for my team to win its next title, anyway, what's the rush to get rid of our best young player?  To me, it makes more sense to keep him around a little while and see if he can become that kind of leader for this team going forward.

The Celtics utilized numerous first round picks, one of which developed into a star, to acquire Kevin Garnett and traded a top five pick and other useful players for Ray Allen.  They needed to be bad to get the players necessary to trade for the stars.

As for the Mavs, they traded players they drafted (or players they traded for players they drafted) to acquire almost all of the key players from their title team.  Terry came over for Walker.  Kidd came over for Harris and 2 firsts (among other players).  And on and on.

Exactly.  The Celtics needed to get a windfall in Pierce at #10 way back in the late 90's, they needed Big Al to turn into a young star (15th overall pick), and they need the #5 overall pick to bring it all together.  And it took them well over a decade to become a true contender. 

Now, if they had been truly awful and gotten a top 5 draft pick 2-3 times, and used those picks well, could they have contended much sooner, and been competitive longer?  I would argue yes.

As for the Mavs, it took them many trades and many draft picks, as Moranis pointed out.  Also, they benefited from the fact that back in the late 90's teams didn't scout foreign players as well.  These days, I highly doubt a star like Dirk would ever fall to #9.  With them, too, you could fairly wonder if they could have put together a contender by drafting in the high lottery multiple times.

In any case, there's a common thread: you've got to be really bad at least once, and you've got to turn that high pick into a star one way or another.  I say the sooner we pick high, the better. 

Ideally you pick high, turn that asset into a really good piece, and then draft high once or twice more (as the Thunder did a couple years ago).  If you really use those picks well, you can be set up to contend for years to come.

Yeah, if the Celtics had been even worse in '97, they could have scored Michael Olowakandi, Mike Bibby, Antawn Jamison, Raef Lafrentz or Tractor Traylor.

Those missed opportunities still smart a little.

[Celtics18]

I don't think the C's would necessarily be rebuilding specifically around Rondo if they kept him on the roster...I mean he's a solid player at a decent price. If they can't trade him for something good, then they might as well keep him.

the point is, if you keep Rondo on your roster and you make any sort of attempt to build a decent team with him as the main guy, you're destined for mediocrity.

so unless the plan is hold onto Rondo and tank by putting D-leaguers / borderline talents around him, i'm not seeing the endgame of keeping him.  now, it's possible that Danny plans to do exactly that. use our cap space to take on bad deals from other teams coupled with low risk / high upside young players and tank for a couple years with Rondo at the helm.  

but that plan doesn't strike me as bold enough for Danny Ainge.  he wants to get back to the top sooner rather than later, and i think he'll make big, widely unpopular moves to get there -- including trading Rondo.

The truth is that in today's NBA you can't expect to win titles based on having one "transcendent" (to use a word that folks like to bandy about) superstar.

You generally need at least two top players and/or a very solid supporting cast of top level talent, a la last year's Mavs or our Celtics.  We can even throw in the recent Laker champs, not to mention the Spurs.  

that's precisely my point, though.  you aren't getting more than one top players on the Celtics unless you draft at least one of them and then lure more through free agency because you have an exciting franchise star.  no, rondo doesn't count.

trying to build a 2004 pistons type team around Rondo seems like a foolish plan to me.  that would basically consist of signing and trading for borderline all-stars and hoping that they can build the right amount of chemistry, complement each other in just the right way, play top-level defense, and get lucky in terms of their opponent.  that's certainly possible, if all goes right.  but it could also mean you spend a lot of money year after year to be a team like the Hawks.

i would argue that a team like the '04 Pistons is not going to win a title in today's NBA.  too many superteams.  

again, what team has won a title in the past 25 years other than the pistons that didn't draft at least one of its star players, or trade for them using draft assets, as a result of being one of the worst teams in the league for at least one year?  as i said before, the only one that comes to mind is the lakers (though they drafted both kobe and bynum in the late lottery).  but nobody but the lakers can do what the lakers do (unique combination of money, location, prestige, spotlight).

In the case of the Mavericks and the Celtics, they drafted Nowitzki and Pierce 9th and 10th respectively and then waited over a decade for those stars to lead them to a title.  Management for both those teams had to make a lot of sound personnel moves for them to become titlists.  Both Pierce and Nowitzki have always been very good players, but they've had to work hard and stay healthy (and win titles) to really get placed in that elite category.  

It seems a little too narrow to me to say that the primary event that led to the Celtics' 2008 title and the Mavericks 2011 title was each of those teams tanking back in '97.  Sure, those teams being bad that year landed them their respective stars but it took a lot more than that along the way to finally build a champion.  

If I've got to wait 14 years for my team to win its next title, anyway, what's the rush to get rid of our best young player?  To me, it makes more sense to keep him around a little while and see if he can become that kind of leader for this team going forward.

The Celtics utilized numerous first round picks, one of which developed into a star, to acquire Kevin Garnett and traded a top five pick and other useful players for Ray Allen.  They needed to be bad to get the players necessary to trade for the stars.

As for the Mavs, they traded players they drafted (or players they traded for players they drafted) to acquire almost all of the key players from their title team.  Terry came over for Walker.  Kidd came over for Harris and 2 firsts (among other players).  And on and on.

I'm not opposed to drafting players who can become good players or good assets.  That doesn't mean you have to tank.  The players that were traded in the Garnett deal were not high lottery picks. 

[PosImpos]

I'm not opposed to drafting players who can become good players or good assets.  That doesn't mean you have to tank.  The players that were traded in the Garnett deal were not high lottery picks. 

except Garnett would never have agreed to come to Boston if Ray Allen were not already here, and Ray Allen was acquired by trading the #5 pick in the '07 draft.

no tanking in '06-'07 means no #5 pick means no Ray Allen means no KG means no Big 3 means no title #17.


you gotta be terrible to be great.

[Celtics18]

I'm not opposed to drafting players who can become good players or good assets.  That doesn't mean you have to tank.  The players that were traded in the Garnett deal were not high lottery picks. 

except Garnett would never have agreed to come to Boston if Ray Allen were not already here, and Ray Allen was acquired by trading the #5 pick in the '07 draft.

no tanking in '06-'07 means no #5 pick means no Ray Allen means no KG means no Big 3 means no title #17.


you gotta be terrible to be great.

Fine, I'll give you that we wouldn't have gotten KG and Ray if we hadn't tanked the '07 season.  But, even at that, we certainly didn't get that franchise guy in the draft with the number 5 pick.  It took using Jeff Green, who nobody thought was a franchise level superstar, and the rest of the acquired assets to build a championship team.

You keep talking about exceptions to the rule.  However, since the end of the Jordan era of Chicago Bulls dominance in the '90s, six teams have won NBA titles: The Lakers, the Spurs, the Pistons, the Heat, the Celtics, and the Mavericks.  Three of those teams, the Lakers, the Pistons, and the Mavericks, can't really be said to have used the tanking method to build their championship teams. 

That doesn't make them exceptions.  I don't really think you can call 50% the rule. 

Let's also consider the flip side of tanking.  There are way more teams in this league that are bad year after year after year who have yet to get that "franchise" guy in the draft and stay mired in misery using the "tanking" method than ones who hit the jackpot and get a Dwayne Wade or a Tim Duncan.

 

[Moranis]

Trade 1:

Boston sends: Rajon Rondo Gets: Kyle Lowry, Paul George, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, HOU 1st round pick 2012
Indy sends: Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Darren Collison Gets: Rajon Rondo
Houston sends: Kyle Lowry, rights to Donatas Motiejunas, 2012 1st Houston Gets: Darren Collison, Roy Hibbert

Second trade:

Boston sends: Ray Allen, Avery Bradley, Jermaine O'Neal Boston Gets: Chauncey Billups, Minn 2012 1st
LAC sends: Chauncey Billups, 2012 Min 1st

Third trade:

Boston sends: Paul Pierce
Utah sends: M. Okur, Derrick Favors

Misc moves: Waive billups (you're only on the hook for like..nothin)

Roster:

Kyle Lowry (5.8 million next 3 yrs)/K Dooling
Paul George (2.4 mil next 3 yrs)/Moore
Pavlovic/Daniels
Favors (4.4 mil next 3)/Bass (4.2 next 2)/Johnson
Garnett/Okur/Wilcox

Salary picture 2012:

Lowry (5.8), George (2.4), Moore (~ 1 mil), Favors (4.4 mil), Johnson (~ 2mil)= 15.6 + various other cap holds

Other assets: 2012 Bos 1st, 2012 MN 1st, 2012 HOU 1st

2012 Roster going forward:

Lowry/
1st round pick
George
Favors
?

The center position is the one that is most questionable. Dwight Howard of course is ideal (KG+2 1sts for Dwight with extension), but it could be someone else, or even just a simple draft pick. Lots of good centers in the crop next season.

That's my ideal situation.

Isn't the Minny 2012 pick gone to NOH and Billups salary is only 2 million anyway, not sure how you can do that trade?

[CFAN38]

PG Rajon Rondo
SG Monta Ellis
SF Josh Smith
PF Kevin Love
C Al Jefferson or Roy Hibbert

there will be very little D played by that team, ellis cant guard sgs because of his lack of length and weak frame, smith is a low energy player who will only give the high light blocks and neither al or love are defencive bigs. This is a great 2k12 lineup but not a real nba lineup

[Fafnir]

I'm not opposed to drafting players who can become good players or good assets.  That doesn't mean you have to tank.  The players that were traded in the Garnett deal were not high lottery picks.  

except Garnett would never have agreed to come to Boston if Ray Allen were not already here, and Ray Allen was acquired by trading the #5 pick in the '07 draft.

no tanking in '06-'07 means no #5 pick means no Ray Allen means no KG means no Big 3 means no title #17.


you gotta be terrible to be great.

I think the C's could have gotten Ray Allen with any lottery pick, though we can't know for certain.

The Sonics were looking to dump his salary and get young players back.

[green7]

Ok My Full Team young starters is the key

[STARTERS]

PG:Rajon Rondo
SG:OJ Mayo (2nd Option : Eric Gordon (if he can stay healthy)
SF:Jeff Green (2nd option : start paul pierce)
PF: Kevin love (2nd option :start Bass)
C:Dwight Howard (2nd : andrew bynum 3rd option : match offers for roy hibbert


[BENCH]

PG:Louis Williams,dooling [VET MIN]
SG:Ray allen [lower payed contract maybe 5 or 6 million if he doesn't take it then jason terry is our guy],Avery bradley moore (even tho i think he and johnson will be traded]
SF:pierce or green pietrus (yes bring him back)
PF: KG (lower payed contract my gut feeling says he retires hope not),Brandon bass (if we don't get love then he starts)
C: Marcus Camby (Vet MIN) or Omer Asik,keep greg stisesma
 

[green7]

ok full team *UPDATE*

STARTERS

Pg:rajon rondo
sg:oj mayo
sf:jeff green
pf:kevin love or start brandon bass
C:Roy hibbert (pipe dream dwight howard)

BENCH

PG:Chauncey Billups (or louis williams),keyon dooling (vet min)

SG:jodie meeks or Landry fields (3rd option keep ray as a role player) would like for jason terry to be a celtic but i bet he cost to much

SF:paul pierce,Matt Barnes,pietrus

PF:brandon bass if we get love if not then bass starts and i don't know who comes of the bench

C: omer asik semih erden

[Marcus13]

PG - Rajon Rondo
SG- Eric Gordon (signed via Free Agency)
SF- Paul Pierce
PF- Kevin Love (signed via Free Agency)
C- Nazr Mohammed/Anthony Tolliver

Bench
-----------

PG - Delonte West
SG - Ray Allen
SF- JJJ
PF- Brandon Bass
C- Cody Zellar