Author Topic: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future  (Read 15511 times)

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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2011, 12:37:29 PM »

Offline jdpapa3

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Better than Denver did. Better than Utah did.

Um, what are you talking about?

They got no good young players with awesome potential, no cap relief, no potentially top 15 draft picks, and no all stars. It was a horrendous return that would keep them average for a while.

Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 12:41:49 PM »

Offline CelticG1

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I don't understand why people are mad here. Stern and the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern as the Commissioner and head guy for the NBA is basically that of the Hornets - the head guy. The GM for the team, that he is the head guy of, put together a trade that he didn't like. Thus he trashed it. The deal was never "done"! That was BS by the media. It wasn't done because it wasn't approved by the Hornet's ownership, basically Stern who has ultimate final say.

Again, the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern is the head guy of the NBA. Thus he is the acting owner of the Hornets. No different then if DA said "I got a deal done to trade Rondo for Tony Parker and a protected first but I need ownership to sign off on it." Then Wyc not liking the trade doesn't sign off on it.

That's what happened. Stern didn't like the trade and geez I wonder why?! What did the trade accomplish besides a commitment to mediocrity? No youth to build around, no young star, no cap space, and no lottery picks. WOW! Lol that's a great deal for the long term future of this team. Let's be good enough to always get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs and never have a chance at drafting a franchise player. I mean it's worked great for the Sixers and Hawks.

Stern wants to sell the team and that package ain't helping. You either need young talent and cap flexibility or you need another superstar in return for Paul. You can't settle for anything else even if at the time it seems like a less trade in the short term.

That trade was made by a GM who is looking for his next job. He wants to say "look I still created a playoff team even after CP3 wanted out." Yet, that's not the way to go. Stern has seen what it takes for success in a small market and he wants to go the route of the Thunder and how the Jazz are doing now. Not how Charlotte and Atlanta have been doing it the last few years.

New Orleans made out as good or better than anyone else in the deal.

They gave up their franchise player for two top-10 players at their position, a playoff proven frontcourt player, a valuable up and coming combo guard than should lock down the bench for the next 8 years, and a 1st round draft pick.

In terms of what other teams have been getting in return for their franchise players, and a point guard at that, you have to think New Orleans did pretty well. Better than Denver did. Better than Utah did.

Wow being pretty generous there with the top 10 at their positions comment

Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2011, 12:42:50 PM »

Offline footey

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TP to OP, totally agree. Was bad trade for NO for its long term future. Terrible.  In that respect the Rondo offer was much better, as he is locked into a long term deal at a below market value, and is still quite young.

Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2011, 12:46:42 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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TP to OP, totally agree. Was bad trade for NO for its long term future. Terrible.  In that respect the Rondo offer was much better, as he is locked into a long term deal at a below market value, and is still quite young.
i dont think it's a bad trade at all. they got 3 pretty good players. NO could have easily just traded all thos players for expiring deals/picks next week for all we know.

Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2011, 12:47:36 PM »

Offline LilRip

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I don't understand why people are mad here. Stern and the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern as the Commissioner and head guy for the NBA is basically that of the Hornets - the head guy. The GM for the team, that he is the head guy of, put together a trade that he didn't like. Thus he trashed it. The deal was never "done"! That was BS by the media. It wasn't done because it wasn't approved by the Hornet's ownership, basically Stern who has ultimate final say.

Again, the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern is the head guy of the NBA. Thus he is the acting owner of the Hornets. No different then if DA said "I got a deal done to trade Rondo for Tony Parker and a protected first but I need ownership to sign off on it." Then Wyc not liking the trade doesn't sign off on it.

That's what happened. Stern didn't like the trade and geez I wonder why?! What did the trade accomplish besides a commitment to mediocrity? No youth to build around, no young star, no cap space, and no lottery picks. WOW! Lol that's a great deal for the long term future of this team. Let's be good enough to always get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs and never have a chance at drafting a franchise player. I mean it's worked great for the Sixers and Hawks.

Stern wants to sell the team and that package ain't helping. You either need young talent and cap flexibility or you need another superstar in return for Paul. You can't settle for anything else even if at the time it seems like a less trade in the short term.

That trade was made by a GM who is looking for his next job. He wants to say "look I still created a playoff team even after CP3 wanted out." Yet, that's not the way to go. Stern has seen what it takes for success in a small market and he wants to go the route of the Thunder and how the Jazz are doing now. Not how Charlotte and Atlanta have been doing it the last few years.

New Orleans made out as good or better than anyone else in the deal.

They gave up their franchise player for two top-10 players at their position, a playoff proven frontcourt player, a valuable up and coming combo guard than should lock down the bench for the next 8 years, and a 1st round draft pick.

In terms of what other teams have been getting in return for their franchise players, and a point guard at that, you have to think New Orleans did pretty well. Better than Denver did. Better than Utah did.

NOH isn't getting Gasol who is a top10 player in his position. but anyway, i think the biggest thing is that NOH absolutely has no future with this deal. no cap space, no youth. just a bunch of corey maggette-level players. theyre good, could almost look like an all-star on any given night, but in the end, always not-good-enough.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2011, 12:48:29 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Honestly if you look at it, I hated it more for the lakers than anyone else. Unless they were able to also pull off the Bynum for Howard trade, LA was taking an incredible risk here. It could've gone wrong on so many levels.

Risk 1: No frontcourt depth without some very savvy free agent signings. The trio of Gasol/Odom/Bynum was what allowed the Lakers to get to the Finals three years in a row. Now, they were going to rely on..what? Derrick Caracter? Even if they also had Emeka Okafor coming back in the deal, its far from a win for LA's frontcourt.

Problem 2: Knee health of Bynum, Bryant, and Paul. If only one of these guys has a nagging knee injury (which all three have had in spades the last few years) the whole thing could go off the rails quickly.

Problem 3: Maybe it doesn't work. Chris Paul is at his best with his hands on the ball. He's a dynamic passer, scorer, etc...he makes stuff happen. Kobe Bryant scores the basketball. While its tempting to point at Paul Pierce and KG and Ray Allen, or Bron/Wade/Bosh and say 'it worked before', the fact of the matter is that none of those guys are Kobe Bryant, and none of those guys are Lakers. The Lakers are the most drama-filled team in the league. Andrew Bynum threw a freakin temper-tantrum last year IN THE PLAYOFFS! Kobe Bryant has never, ever worried about throwing teammates or coaches under the bus, and when things get rocky (and they will, every team faces adversity), you will be able to set your clocks by the regularity of Kobe's leaked attacks on teammates and coaches.

It takes a certain kind of guy to succeed in LA, and it takes a certain kind of guy to succeed with Kobe and still be the best player on the team. Only Shaq has been able to do it, and Kobe sent him outta town on the pony express to Miami at the expense of likely winning more rings, just because he wanted the Lakers to unquestionably be 'his team'.

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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2011, 12:50:11 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Will the critics be OK with the deal if Okafor is sent to LA (cap relief) and another 1st rounder (from Houston or LA) is included? Because I have a feeling that's what we're going to see.

BTW, look at the Hornets roster going into this season, and tell me they aren't mediocre already, especially if David West signs elsewhere.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/hornets.jsp

The trade would have made them better at several positions, and gave them some assets to continue to improve the long-term future of the roster.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2011, 12:51:12 PM »

Offline action781

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I don't understand why people are mad here. Stern and the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern as the Commissioner and head guy for the NBA is basically that of the Hornets - the head guy. The GM for the team, that he is the head guy of, put together a trade that he didn't like. Thus he trashed it. The deal was never "done"! That was BS by the media. It wasn't done because it wasn't approved by the Hornet's ownership, basically Stern who has ultimate final say.

Again, the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern is the head guy of the NBA. Thus he is the acting owner of the Hornets. No different then if DA said "I got a deal done to trade Rondo for Tony Parker and a protected first but I need ownership to sign off on it." Then Wyc not liking the trade doesn't sign off on it.

That's what happened. Stern didn't like the trade and geez I wonder why?! What did the trade accomplish besides a commitment to mediocrity? No youth to build around, no young star, no cap space, and no lottery picks. WOW! Lol that's a great deal for the long term future of this team. Let's be good enough to always get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs and never have a chance at drafting a franchise player. I mean it's worked great for the Sixers and Hawks.

Stern wants to sell the team and that package ain't helping. You either need young talent and cap flexibility or you need another superstar in return for Paul. You can't settle for anything else even if at the time it seems like a less trade in the short term.

That trade was made by a GM who is looking for his next job. He wants to say "look I still created a playoff team even after CP3 wanted out." Yet, that's not the way to go. Stern has seen what it takes for success in a small market and he wants to go the route of the Thunder and how the Jazz are doing now. Not how Charlotte and Atlanta have been doing it the last few years.

New Orleans made out as good or better than anyone else in the deal.

They gave up their franchise player for two top-10 players at their position, a playoff proven frontcourt player, a valuable up and coming combo guard than should lock down the bench for the next 8 years, and a 1st round draft pick.

In terms of what other teams have been getting in return for their franchise players, and a point guard at that, you have to think New Orleans did pretty well. Better than Denver did. Better than Utah did.

You're painting these players with an awfully bright brush, IP.  Top 10 players at their positions?  I'd put each of them somewhere in the 9-17 range at their positions which makes them both fairly mediocre starters.

SG:  Kobe, Wade, Iggy, Ray, JJ, Monta, Manu, Gordon, your boy Wes Matthews, S-Jax, Jason Terry, Curry, Evans.

PF:  Dirk, Aldridge, Z-Bo, Blake, Amare, Pau, KG, Duncan, Bosh, Love, Josh Smith, David Lee, Millsap, Big Al, Boozer, David West.

You can argue technicalities over who plays what position, but for every player you want to argue to take out, I could argue to throw another player in (like Horford as a PF).  I'd say in both of those lists, the 2 players acquired by NO are irrefutably worse than 70% of those lists and better than 0-30% of those lists depending on who is doing the rankings.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2011, 12:52:30 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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He saved NO from NBA no mans land. 


Too good for a good draft pick.


Not good enough to be a contender. 



Sort of like where Houston is right now. 

Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2011, 12:53:53 PM »

Offline action781

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He saved NO from NBA no mans land.  


Too good for a good draft pick.


Not good enough to be a contender.  



Sort of like where Houston is right now.  

Agreed.  And where Charlotte has been for the last few years.  I'm with you and the OP here.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2011, 12:54:05 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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To those who thought this was a good trade. Follow me here. We are on the verge of one of the greatest drafts ever. Right? A draft loaded with talent!!! Now why the heck would the NBA want to won a franchise that is losing their top player and on top of that receives enough talent to basically eliminate them from having the chance to draft any of the potential great players in this draft?

That's insanity!

Scola, Martin, and Dragic aren't worth a guy like Barnes, Sullinger, etc. It's not even close from a selling standpoint for the NBA.

I don't care how good these guys are presently. Top 10 or not. This is a long term business decision. Do you think a guy who buys the Hornets is only concerned with this upcoming season and getting to the playoffs?... Exactly!

The league is better off if the Hornets are complete trash this year, get a chance to draft a top five player like Anthony Davis, put him on a rookie deal, and have loads of cap room. The NBA isn't playing checkers. This is chess. This is ten years they're thinking about. Not one.

That NY pick will be garbage. Scola is 32. Where will he be in 2 years at 34 with two more years on his deal? Odom will be happy in NO? What are you realistically going to get for one of these guys that compares to a top 5 2012 pick? Kevin Martin? The dude is made of glass and this is the best he will ever be. Dragic? Seriously? He ain't no starter.

NO needs to dump salary, acquire some good picks, and bring in a solid young player.

Honestly I think Stern wants to do the Celtic deal if we agree to take back a bad contract.

Rondo = young player
Clips pick = top 15 choice in 2012
Celtics take back salary = salary relief in future for NO
NO = lottery team

No way Stern wants two on the wrong side of 30 PFs, a breakable SG, and a trashy pick in the 20s over a potential top 8 pick in maybe the deepest draft ever for this franchise. LOL not while he is the owner of it at least.


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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2011, 12:54:59 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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You're painting these players with an awfully bright brush, IP.  Top 10 players at their positions?  I'd put each of them somewhere in the 9-17 range at their positions which makes them both fairly mediocre starters.

SG:  Kobe, Wade, Iggy, Ray, JJ, Monta, Manu, Gordon, your boy Wes Matthews, S-Jax, Jason Terry, Curry, Evans.

PF:  Dirk, Aldridge, Z-Bo, Blake, Amare, Pau, KG, Duncan, Bosh, Love, Josh Smith, David Lee, Millsap, Big Al, Boozer, David West.


Going forward, if I'm NO, I'd prefer Martin over Ray, JJ, Manu, S-Jax, and Terry.

At PF, I'd take Scola over KG, Duncan, and West if I was looking to rebuild. And depending on the makeup of the team, Scola might be a better fit than Smith, Lee, Millsap, or Boozer.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2011, 12:55:51 PM »

Offline Kane3387

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Will the critics be OK with the deal if Okafor is sent to LA (cap relief) and another 1st rounder (from Houston or LA) is included? Because I have a feeling that's what we're going to see.

BTW, look at the Hornets roster going into this season, and tell me they aren't mediocre already, especially if David West signs elsewhere.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/hornets.jsp

The trade would have made them better at several positions, and gave them some assets to continue to improve the long-term future of the roster.

No... Let the team suck in the shortened season and get a top 5 pick. That team without CP3 and West might be the worst team in the NBA. Get that top pick!

Lol that's the point. Don't be mediocre. Either be good or REALLY Bad with this draft class coming in.


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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2011, 12:56:49 PM »

Offline action781

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To those who thought this was a good trade. Follow me here. We are on the verge of one of the greatest drafts ever. Right? A draft loaded with talent!!! Now why the heck would the NBA want to won a franchise that is losing their top player and on top of that receives enough talent to basically eliminate them from having the chance to draft any of the potential great players in this draft?

That's insanity!

Scola, Martin, and Dragic aren't worth a guy like Barnes, Sullinger, etc. It's not even close from a selling standpoint for the NBA.

I don't care how good these guys are presently. Top 10 or not. This is a long term business decision. Do you think a guy who buys the Hornets is only concerned with this upcoming season and getting to the playoffs?... Exactly!

The league is better off if the Hornets are complete trash this year, get a chance to draft a top five player like Anthony Davis, put him on a rookie deal, and have loads of cap room. The NBA isn't playing checkers. This is chess. This is ten years they're thinking about. Not one.

That NY pick will be garbage. Scola is 32. Where will he be in 2 years at 34 with two more years on his deal? Odom will be happy in NO? What are you realistically going to get for one of these guys that compares to a top 5 2012 pick? Kevin Martin? The dude is made of glass and this is the best he will ever be. Dragic? Seriously? He ain't no starter.

NO needs to dump salary, acquire some good picks, and bring in a solid young player.

Honestly I think Stern wants to do the Celtic deal if we agree to take back a bad contract.

Rondo = young player
Clips pick = top 15 choice in 2012
Celtics take back salary = salary relief in future for NO
NO = lottery team

No way Stern wants two on the wrong side of 30 PFs, a breakable SG, and a trashy pick in the 20s over a potential top 8 pick in maybe the deepest draft ever for this franchise. LOL not while he is the owner of it at least.

Yep, I agree with this entire thought process.
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Re: No Question. Stern Did What Was Best For Hornet's Future
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2011, 12:58:02 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I don't understand why people are mad here. Stern and the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern as the Commissioner and head guy for the NBA is basically that of the Hornets - the head guy. The GM for the team, that he is the head guy of, put together a trade that he didn't like. Thus he trashed it. The deal was never "done"! That was BS by the media. It wasn't done because it wasn't approved by the Hornet's ownership, basically Stern who has ultimate final say.

Again, the NBA owns the Hornets. Stern is the head guy of the NBA. Thus he is the acting owner of the Hornets. No different then if DA said "I got a deal done to trade Rondo for Tony Parker and a protected first but I need ownership to sign off on it." Then Wyc not liking the trade doesn't sign off on it.

That's what happened. Stern didn't like the trade and geez I wonder why?! What did the trade accomplish besides a commitment to mediocrity? No youth to build around, no young star, no cap space, and no lottery picks. WOW! Lol that's a great deal for the long term future of this team. Let's be good enough to always get eliminated in the first round of the playoffs and never have a chance at drafting a franchise player. I mean it's worked great for the Sixers and Hawks.

Stern wants to sell the team and that package ain't helping. You either need young talent and cap flexibility or you need another superstar in return for Paul. You can't settle for anything else even if at the time it seems like a less trade in the short term.

That trade was made by a GM who is looking for his next job. He wants to say "look I still created a playoff team even after CP3 wanted out." Yet, that's not the way to go. Stern has seen what it takes for success in a small market and he wants to go the route of the Thunder and how the Jazz are doing now. Not how Charlotte and Atlanta have been doing it the last few years.

New Orleans made out as good or better than anyone else in the deal.

They gave up their franchise player for two top-10 players at their position, a playoff proven frontcourt player, a valuable up and coming combo guard than should lock down the bench for the next 8 years, and a 1st round draft pick.

In terms of what other teams have been getting in return for their franchise players, and a point guard at that, you have to think New Orleans did pretty well. Better than Denver did. Better than Utah did.

Wow being pretty generous there with the top 10 at their positions comment

I'm trying to think of 10 PF's better than Luis Scola in teh NBA. So far I've got Dirk, KG, Amare, Love, Aldridge, Z-Bo, Griffin, Gasol, Bosh and Boozer. After that I think you've got Jefferson, Josh Smith, Scola, and Odom all right there at 11. I like Scola/Smith/Jefferson (in that order), because of Odom's inconsistency, but you could argue for any one of the 4.

Kevin Martin is way easier. he's def a top-10 sg. Heck, depending on how you see Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, Iggy, and Ray Allen, he's a top 5 SG.

I'd go

Wade
Bryant
Ginobli (but he's in danger of falling off a cliff this year)
Ray Allen
Joe Johnson
Kevin Martin
Iggy
Monta
Harden
Gordon
then I stop caring.

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