Are Rose and Westbrook trying harder than Rondo?

[gotjoker?]

As far as becoming a better shooter and adding longer range.

I ask this since isn't this the real reason why Rondo isn't regarded as being untouchable.  He isn't a proficient shooter, nor does he possess a scorer's mentality.  Personally, I don't necessarily hold this against him as a player.  In my opinion, he, Nash and Kidd are a dying breed.  That is, players such as Derrick Rose and Deron Williams are the prototypical point guard of the future.  Whereas, Rondo is a throwback to the pass first point guards.  I don't think a lot of teams want a Rondo anymore.  Everything is seemingly about scoring, scoring and more scoring.  Fine.  One of my all time favorite point guards could score with his peers, Kevin Johnson.  But, what's wrong with being more like a John Stockton today?

One thing's for sure, trading Rondo for Paul isn't the same as it was when you'd traded Al Jefferson as a part of a deal to acquire Kevin Garnett.  I think a lot of Boston fans liked Big Al.  Conversely, Boston fans seem as much divided on Rondo as they're on Pierce.  I don't know, I just recall many people were at least on the fence about giving up Jefferson.  Whereas, people are generally all for giving up Rondo.  Why? I know it's his personality...  It's irksome.  However, Jefferson's injury prone or he can be at times.

I feel it begins with the person.  They have to want to get better at whatever they desire to get better at.  Hence, this might be where Rondo sours on some fans.  The perception is that he doesn't really want to do so as much as he's probably tired of the topic coming up when you include him in a conversation about the best players in the league at his position and where he ranks among them.  I guess that's the biggest mystery about him.  How much does he take it personal.  Does he take it personal? I try not to generalize...  So I'll leave it at that.

I do believe there's a direct correlation between his shooting and free throw shooting percentages.  Interestingly, Jose Calderon is an excellent free throw shooter.  However, his shooting can be sporadic.

Mannix caught up with renowned basketball trainer Rob McClanaghan, who Westbrook works out with along with Chicago guard Derrick Rose in the off-season. In providing an update on Westbrook’s development, McClanaghan quite possibly single-handedly raised expectations for Westbrook as he enters his fourth season. First, McClanaghan discussed how developing Westbrook’s pull-up jumper was a point of emphasis.

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2011/12/07/is-russell-westbrook-now-a-better-shooter/

"He's one of the reasons why I'm having so much success on my jump shot this year," Rose said of McClanaghan, whom he met in the summer of 2007 before Rose went to play at Memphis, and with whom he has been working since.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6221021

Former Providence coach Tim Welsh said on CSN that Rondo went to Atlanta and worked with Mark Price on his shooting all summer. Welsh said before Rondo was a bad shooter and now he is an average shooter. Apparently Rondo has corrected the flaw in his shooting form.

http://boston.sportsthenandnow.com/2009/09/30/mark-price-is-right-for-rondo/

[Celtics18]

Poor Thunder fans.  Does this mean that Russell Westbrook will be even more of a gunner now?

[Who]

A little off topic but anyway ... interesting article there by Chris Mannix (linked by the article on the Westbrook link). Especially the Al Horford bit.

It sounds like he has been working on his dribble drive face up game quite a bit. It'd be fantastic if he added that to his repertoire. Definitely be looking out for that once play resumes.

Because the 6-foot-10 Horford is an undersized center, McClanaghan worked extensively with him on his face-up game. McClanaghan said Horford has improved his ability to take bigger defenders off the dribble and knock down a face-up jump shot when they back off him."

"Al took a huge step this summer," McClanaghan said. "He's always been a hard worker with an unselfish game. I think this summer he started to realize just how good an offensive player he can be."

[theswitch]

Man, I would really hate to trade Rondo only to find out that he's starting to develop a shot. He doesn't even have to be able to hit it every time for me to want to keep him - he just needs to be able to keep defenses honest.

If he's actually an average shooter at this point (unlikely, but if), that changes the need for a deal in my book.

[Tai]

I'd rather Rondo not become Westbrook. At least Rose doesn't come off half as much as a chucker.

[greenpride32]

Sorry but Stockton and Nash can score the ball; their offensive prowess is way out of Rondo's league.

[Celtics18]

I'd rather Rondo not become Westbrook. At least Rose doesn't come off half as much as a chucker.

Oh, I don't know.  I think Rose is as much of a chucker as Westbrook; I just think he's better at it.

[action781]

A little off topic but anyway ... interesting article there by Chris Mannix (linked by the article on the Westbrook link). Especially the Al Horford bit.

It sounds like he has been working on his dribble drive face up game quite a bit. It'd be fantastic if he added that to his repertoire. Definitely be looking out for that once play resumes.

Because the 6-foot-10 Horford is an undersized center, McClanaghan worked extensively with him on his face-up game. McClanaghan said Horford has improved his ability to take bigger defenders off the dribble and knock down a face-up jump shot when they back off him."

"Al took a huge step this summer," McClanaghan said. "He's always been a hard worker with an unselfish game. I think this summer he started to realize just how good an offensive player he can be."

I saw this clip of a shot that Horford practices repeatedly and uses often in games that goes like this:  He spots up at the elbow.  When a teammate drives, his C defender is sagging to give help in the paint.  When his teammate kicks to him, he jab fake dribble which freezes his defender and he has a wide open 15 footer.  I've used it and taught it to high school kids and it's pretty simple once you get the balance down (which is the hardest part).

Being able to then face up better when defender plays really solid defense will improve that look a lot for him.

[gotjoker?]

Sorry but Stockton and Nash can score the ball; their offensive prowess is way out of Rondo's league.

Yes, Nash and Stockton between the three are the better scorers because they are or were the more proficient shooters and free throw shooters.  On the other hand, what I'm saying is that they're alike in that neither necessarily has to score in order to make a significant impact in a game.  If need be they [Nash and Stockton] can score if the primary scorer struggles.  Especially, in regards to Nash.  Likewise, Rondo can too score only he replaces their proficient shooting with freakish athleticism and dribbling mastery which lead him closer to the rim.

Nash can be placed under both a scoring guard and a pass first guard.  It all comes down to what your responsibilities are to the team in terms of what the style of play calls for you to do.  Perhaps, Nash displays a more aggressive offense (like Kidd with New Jersey), and Stockton and Rondo work more within the confines of their team's system.  Regardless, all three know how to run an offense with the right personnel and run it effortlessly.

[Greenbean]

Man, I would really hate to trade Rondo only to find out that he's starting to develop a shot. He doesn't even have to be able to hit it every time for me to want to keep him - he just needs to be able to keep defenses honest.

If he's actually an average shooter at this point (unlikely, but if), that changes the need for a deal in my book.

THe article the OP is quoting is from 2 years ago...

There have been no reports of him improving this summer.

[Greenbean]

I have no doubt that Rondo constantly works on his free throw shooting just like I have no doubt Shaq did every offseason.

Some guys, for whatever reason cant shoot.

With Shaq, his massive frame prohibited him from having any touch. His arms just didnt move fluidly.

Maybe Rondo has a Charles Barkley swing thing going on. Maybe his from is fine and his elbow is in every day in practice then he gets in the game and you know what it looks like.

The guy is highly competitive and hears it from everyone that he has one flaw in his game. I have no doubt he is working on it as hard as everyone else. The work just may never pay off...

[Greenbean]

Sorry but Stockton and Nash can score the ball; their offensive prowess is way out of Rondo's league.

Yes, Nash and Stockton between the three are the better scorers because they are or were the more proficient shooters and free throw shooters.  On the other hand, what I'm saying is that they're alike in that neither necessarily has to score in order to make a significant impact in a game.  If need be they [Nash and Stockton] can score if the primary scorer struggles.  Especially, in regards to Nash.  Likewise, Rondo can too score only he replaces their proficient shooting with freakish athleticism and dribbling mastery which lead him closer to the rim.

Nash can be placed under both a scoring guard and a pass first guard.  It all comes down to what your responsibilities are to the team in terms of what the style of play calls for you to do.  Perhaps, Nash displays a more aggressive offense (like Kidd with New Jersey), and Stockton and Rondo work more within the confines of their team's system.  Regardless, all three know how to run an offense with the right personnel and run it effortlessly.

Yeah Stockton and Nash were pass first but they could shoot the lights out.

I cant think of many great pg's where a team would not have to play withing 5 feet of them. Rondo is unique in that regard.

[CelticsFanNC]

  How many of these ball dominating, "chucker" PG's have ever won NBA titles throughout NBA history?

How many have been won pass first PG's?

  Just because there seem to be more of the shoot first variety of PG doesn't necessarily mean they are the best to have if you want to win NBA titles.

[Celtics4ever]

That play in 2008 where Rondo dived for the ball and shot the layup after getting up pretty much ends that this thread of course , Rondo when his mind is set plays harder than either.

Trouble is, his effort level is not always consistent.

[Roy H.]

Man, I would really hate to trade Rondo only to find out that he's starting to develop a shot. He doesn't even have to be able to hit it every time for me to want to keep him - he just needs to be able to keep defenses honest.

If he's actually an average shooter at this point (unlikely, but if), that changes the need for a deal in my book.

That article regarding Rondo's work with Mark Price is from 2009.  Since then, his shot hasn't improved all that much (if at all) and his free throw shooting has gotten worse.