Rondo has peaked

[BballTim]

I think the playoffs showed Perkins was overrated ( I was upset too at first, but soon saw the light , and I think the same could be said of his buddy Rondo.

Face it Rondo was lifted into the limelight by the big three, Rondo has mentioned on coccasion himself that he would have been traded 2-3 times by now if not for the unique fit he gave the team early on.

A short man who can't shoot or make a freethow is about worthless in the NBA.

 

 
  

I think the playoffs showed that Perk wasn't completely healthy.  He doesn't play well when he isn't 100% healthy below the waist.  I thought he was a stiff the year he had plantar fascitis.

I'd take Rondo over Eric Gordon any day.

  Yes, when you think about how bad Rondo looked at times last year, consider the difference in Perk from 06-07 to 07-08, where he had the same injury Rajon had in 06-07.

[Yogi]

Shooting free throws in NBA level basketball games isn't easy, and the history of the league shows is not something everyone can learn.

I think what it shows is that there are a lot of people with NBA talent, that have a poor work ethic to go along with it. Ray Allen is not a magical unicorn, he wasn't born with the ability to hit shots like a boss.

imagine your hands were twice as large as they are right now and you had the added pressure of taking the shots in front of thousands of people.  not easy.  even if the pressure doesn't ever bother you, it might be impossible if your hands are so disproportionately large compared to the ball (rondo and shaq have that problem).

Shaq's problem is his pride. Big hands? Big deal. Take your free throws Rick Barry style, underhand. Shaq's abysmal FT% is all between his ears, concern about image.

I personally think that Rondo should do his FT attempts as a jumpshot; he seems more comfortable shooting that way and it's not against the rules.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the big hands theory.  I can hit a higher percentage shooting a softball than Shaq can hit with a basketball.

You would have to shoot the softball in a hoop that is in proportion to the softball.  Besides wingspan also makes it very difficult to get a good feel for shot.  Larger wingspan means more movement from your forearm which makes the ball go much faster leaving your hand.  This makes it very difficult to get a feel for the right strength.  Rondo's shots are usually very straight, they're usually too strong and sometimes short when he tries to compensate for it. 

[Inside-Out]

Shooting free throws in NBA level basketball games isn't easy, and the history of the league shows is not something everyone can learn.

I think what it shows is that there are a lot of people with NBA talent, that have a poor work ethic to go along with it. Ray Allen is not a magical unicorn, he wasn't born with the ability to hit shots like a boss.

imagine your hands were twice as large as they are right now and you had the added pressure of taking the shots in front of thousands of people.  not easy.  even if the pressure doesn't ever bother you, it might be impossible if your hands are so disproportionately large compared to the ball (rondo and shaq have that problem).

Shaq's problem is his pride. Big hands? Big deal. Take your free throws Rick Barry style, underhand. Shaq's abysmal FT% is all between his ears, concern about image.

I personally think that Rondo should do his FT attempts as a jumpshot; he seems more comfortable shooting that way and it's not against the rules.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the big hands theory.  I can hit a higher percentage shooting a softball than Shaq can hit with a basketball.

You would have to shoot the softball in a hoop that is in proportion to the softball.  Besides wingspan also makes it very difficult to get a good feel for shot.  Larger wingspan means more movement from your forearm which makes the ball go much faster leaving your hand.  This makes it very difficult to get a feel for the right strength.  Rondo's shots are usually very straight, they're usually too strong and sometimes short when he tries to compensate for it. 

The physics is what it is.  It's also been argued that tall people are at a disadvantage at the line.  I think there are just a lot of people who are so great at what they're great at, their flaws, even in fundamentals, are accepted in the US game.

Most folks here also argue Rondo's passing accuracy is off the charts.  Could he throw a lob pass through the hoop from the FT line?  If the discussion were in a different context (promoting his greatness rather than excusing his deficiency), I suspect most around the board would say a definite yes.

[guava_wrench]

I don't buy the 'big hands' excuses for a second.

I also disagree with those who think that everyone in the NBA should have a high FT%. A lot of the bad shooters can bury FT after FT in practice. The problem is they run really hard during games and they don't take all the shots consecutively. It is much harder to shoot FTs in a game than when shooting around in a gym.

[wdleehi]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

[Eja117]

There are plenty of tall guys that shoot FTs fine. I don't get why he can thread a needle while moving at full speed, but can't hit a free throw when it's sitting there.  In the history of the league there have been better shooters from 3 point land than the line and that is weird.

[BballTim]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

  I'd say that up until Rondo's hand injury his shooting was going fairly well. He was taking more of the shots and hitting about 45% of his long twos. I'd also go with him on the BBIQ. DOc always talks about Rondo's knowledge of the game and BBIQ being hands down the best he's been around as a coach in the league.

[wdleehi]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

  I'd say that up until Rondo's hand injury his shooting was going fairly well. He was taking more of the shots and hitting about 45% of his long twos. I'd also go with him on the BBIQ. DOc always talks about Rondo's knowledge of the game and BBIQ being hands down the best he's been around as a coach in the league.

No one said he doesn't have a good basketball IQ.  I just want to know how we suddenly know he a better one then Paul?

[BballTim]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

  I'd say that up until Rondo's hand injury his shooting was going fairly well. He was taking more of the shots and hitting about 45% of his long twos. I'd also go with him on the BBIQ. DOc always talks about Rondo's knowledge of the game and BBIQ being hands down the best he's been around as a coach in the league.

No one said he doesn't have a good basketball IQ.  I just want to know how we suddenly know he a better one then Paul?

  We don't "know", we strongly suspect. And it didn't happen "suddenly".

[dtrader]

Rondo and his style have been absolutely perfect for this team the last 5 years.

After all those veterans and offensive firepower leave, he is not nearly as valuable.

There are only a handful of teams where Rondo would be as valuable as he is on the Celtics.

Miami, Lakers and I cant think of many more.

I agree with this.  With the team we had in 2008, I dont know if anyone would be more suited to our team than Rondo.  But with every year that the big 3 age and become less dominant, scoring from his position becomes more important.  In the post big 3 future, I feel like he could become a real liability.

I dont think Rondo got noticeably better or worse last year.  I dont think CP did either.  It doesnt make sense to just look at what CP3 did last regular season as an indicator, because he was hampered by injuries all season.  All of those injuries (if as reported) were relatively minor, so theres no reason not to expect him to be back to playing his best (ie 20/10).

[wdleehi]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

  I'd say that up until Rondo's hand injury his shooting was going fairly well. He was taking more of the shots and hitting about 45% of his long twos. I'd also go with him on the BBIQ. DOc always talks about Rondo's knowledge of the game and BBIQ being hands down the best he's been around as a coach in the league.

No one said he doesn't have a good basketball IQ.  I just want to know how we suddenly know he a better one then Paul?

  We don't "know", we strongly suspect. And it didn't happen "suddenly".

There seems to be a lot of the "we don't know but we suspect or hope" going on around here.



Like "we hope Rondo develops so he is as good as Paul in two years"

[LB3533]

I don't believe that Rondo can't get better or that he can't improve "consistent elite level" play.

I do believe that at the very worst, he is what he is and that is a premier PG who can distribute with the best of them.

He's a strong defender and he is a game changer.

He is not someone who can carry a team.

[wdleehi]

I don't believe that Rondo can't get better or that he can't improve "consistent elite level" play.

I do believe that at the very worst, he is what he is and that is a premier PG who can distribute with the best of them.

He's a strong defender and he is a game changer.

He is not someone who can carry a team.

I am close to this opinion.


My biggest fear once the three stars leave, Rondo is to good to let the Celtics drop completely out of the NBA no mans land (battling for the last 2 or 3 spots in the playoffs). 

Just good enough to keep them from getting a true NBA level number one threat.  I am sure they can get an number two level threat that looks like a one in the regular season. 

[BballTim]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

How do you know Rondo has a higher basketball IQ?   


And how is the shooting skill learning going with Rondo? 


We hope in two years Rondo can be as good as Paul?


Yep, I am still for the trade.

  I'd say that up until Rondo's hand injury his shooting was going fairly well. He was taking more of the shots and hitting about 45% of his long twos. I'd also go with him on the BBIQ. DOc always talks about Rondo's knowledge of the game and BBIQ being hands down the best he's been around as a coach in the league.

No one said he doesn't have a good basketball IQ.  I just want to know how we suddenly know he a better one then Paul?

  We don't "know", we strongly suspect. And it didn't happen "suddenly".

There seems to be a lot of the "we don't know but we suspect or hope" going on around here.



Like "we hope Rondo develops so he is as good as Paul in two years"

  Haha. I thought it was more like "we hope CP3 can play as well as Rondo did no Nov/Dec".

  Kidding, since half the people here are fairly unaware that there's a difference between CP3 in 2008 and 2011, especially since they saw him play against the Lakers, not the game where he scored 10 points, one of the other games.

[Arok325]

  Rondo is physically more gifted than Chris Paul.  He is faster, longer and more durable.  Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul.  He is more aware of what is happening during games and can make adjustments and call plays on the floor like a coach.  Chris Paul is much more skilled than Rondo.  He's an elite passer, elite scorer, good defender and good rebounder.
   Chris Paul is without a doubt the better player.  However Rondo has a much higher ceiling.   Skill can be learned, but IQ and athleticism can't.  Rondo has improved at a much faster rate than Chris Paul.  Rondo came into the league very raw as a late round draft pick.  Chris Paul was a star from the moment he stepped into the NBA.  Rondo has not closed the gap completely, but he's a lot closer to Paul than he was to start.  Rondo has also slowly improved his field goal percentage, despite a steady increase in shot attempts,  to near 50% and actually shoots more efficiently from the field than Chris Paul.  Paul is still the far better scorer because he is a far superior 3 point shooter and converts his free throws.  
   If Rondo becomes a better shooter, he would surpass Chris Paul as the best point guard in the league. However there is no reason to expect Rondo will become a better shooter overnight.  His humongous wingspan and large hands makes it very hard to get a shooting touch.  But he WILL improve his shooting, especially as his responsibility shifts from set up man to leader.  I have no doubt that in two years Rondo will be equal to if not better than Chris Paul.  

I fail to see your point and I disagree Rondo is smarter than Chris Paul. What would give you this indication? Their average amount of assists a game? Paul's is higher for his career with I believe roughly the same turnover rate. FG%? Roughly the same with Paul having higher percentages in 3pt's and FT's. Steals a game? Paul is higher. not even to mention the points per game difference. Athleticism? Not sure I buy that argument. Both are insanely quick with Paul using his speed more effectively. Rondo's alleged better athleticism doesn't even translate into better rebounds per game. Also, we've gone over this many times Rondo simply is not becoming a better shooter overnight. Despite somewhat improved form he's the PG equivalent of Ben Wallace. He is horrific and nothing is going to stop that. His elite skills also are negligible compared to other elite PG's.  This is why he is not valued around the league higher than the Stephen Curry's or Eric Gordon's of the world.