Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?

[fairweatherfan]

I'm basing this post on an experience I recently had - after the lockout ended, I saw 4-5 people on Facebook (not close friends) saying things like "Oh great, thug life reunion" "Greedy thugs are back to 'work'" and "Thugball is back I guess". 

What boggled my mind wasn't just the use of these terms, but that all of these guys were big NFL fans.  I pointed out to a couple of them that NFL players have been involved in far more "thuggish" behavior than NBA players, like:

- "Making it rain" in a strip club, then trying to take the money back, and assaulting a stripper and shooting up the place afterward (Pac-Man Jones)
- Running over and killing a pedestrian while inebriated (Donte Stallworth)
- Killing a woman in a car crash while intoxicated, then getting ANOTHER DUI later (Leonard Little)
- Bringing a loaded gun, tucked into sweatpants, into a club then shooting himself in the leg with it (Plaxico)
- Running an illegal dogfighting ring (Vick)
- Trafficking cocaine (Jamal Lewis, Travis Henry) and marijuana (Jerome Simpson, Anthony Collins)
- Multiple rape accusations (Ben Roethlisberger)
- Having many children by many different mothers (Cromartie, Travis Henry)
- Felony domestic assault (Chris Cook)

Etc, etc - but it didn't seem to make a difference.  They described the NFL players as being isolated incidents and restated what "dumb greedy thugs" the NBA players were, despite the fact that incidents like these have been very few and far between in the NBA, and extremely common in the NFL (and MLB/NHL to a lesser degree). 

If an NBA player had been involved in any of these, I have no doubt that many people would tout it as "proof" of how the NBA is "full of thugs", and yet the NFL seems immune to this kind of label.  Heck, when the All-Star weekend was in Vegas, the only major incident involved an NFL player (Pac-Man), but I STILL heard people talking about the "NBA thugs taking over Vegas".

So, what is it about the NBA that keeps the "thug" label stuck to them, and away from the NFL?  It can't just be race - is it really something as basic as how visible the players are with their uniforms, or the more individual vs team nature of the sports?  I could maybe understand it from a non-sports fan, but from football fans in particular, it seems totally irrational.

[JSD]

Individual players are more highlighted in the NBA than the NFL, so when a player does act thuggish it is covered more. I think that may have something to do with it. The NBA is predominantly black, which could be another unfortunate factor. The close association basketball seems to have with hip-hop/rap. These are the things that come to mind for me. But you are right, there is this negative perception out there about the NBA.

[jambr380]

Individual players are more highlighted in the NBA than the NFL, so when a player does act thuggish it is covered more. I think that may have something to do with it. The NBA is predominantly black, which could be another unfortunate factor. The close association basketball seems to have with hip-hop/rap. These are the things that come to mind for me. But you are right, there is this negative perception out there about the NBA.

TP - I pretty much agree with everything you said in your post. It is unfortunate that things are perceived this way, but the OP certainly has a point.

[fairweatherfan]

The NBA is predominantly black, which could be another unfortunate factor.

Yeah, "thug" is frequently used as a coded racist term - but the NFL is mostly black too, and I think everyone on that list I wrote except Roethlisberger is black.  Race might be part of it but there's got to be more there.

I think it really may be the identifiability of NBA uniforms (vs the anonymity of NFL gear) and the more individual nature of the sport that makes it salient to people.  But the blind spot is really bizarre.

[Celtics4ever]

Is not violence accepted and encouraged in football to a certain degree?   As long as it is a clean hit you can brutally hit other people as part of the game.   Could it be part of the sport culturally?

[indeedproceed]

Agree with the idea of racist undertones here. FWF (edit, also Jsaad) nailed it but since I like hearing myself talk..

In the NBA, players are always on display. Not behind helmets, and not amidst a wash of 21 other guys on the field. They're one of 10 guys out there, and because of the superstar nature of the sport, you can constantly see every move they make at any given time with remarkable clarity. Every curse, every disparaging gesture, every celebration, etc..

Everything, all the time, the good and the bad.

Fans of the sport embrace the package for the most part. They watch games, and even casual fans at least embrace the team they root for as a unit made up of 3-dimensional characters, that the players they root for are people, with admirable qualities and whatnot. They also likely understand that everything else notwithstanding, other teams are made up of the same types of people.

Non-fans who only see highlight reels refuse a 3-dimensional concept of personality for the players, and see them not as people, but as a symbol of whatever they don't like about black culture, and worse even, those symbols of the negative stuff they dislike about black culture make WAYYYYYYY more money than they (the non-fan) makes, which means they hate them even more.

At least that's my take on it.

[Finkelskyhook]

Well written, fairweatherfan.

I think the trump card that you didn't mention was that hideous Pistons-Pacers brawl.  The most hideous sight in that brawl was watching our very own tanking Jermaine O'Neal sprinting across the court and coldcocking a spectator.  When he got his suspension, he screamed racism and beat the suspension in court...Then was completely coddled by Stern's officials for the remainder of that season.  If that event didn't reek of thugism, I don't know what event would.  If that would have happened in Goodell's NFL, Artest, Jackson, and O'Neal would have been more likely to play their next down in Antartica than in the NFL...Regardless of their standing in the league before the incident.


I think the difference is in the commissioners and the images of their product that they try to put forth.  

The difference is that Goodell deals with his miscreants with an iron fist whether they are superstars or on the taxi squad.

Stern seems to deal with his players based strictly on their star status at a given time.  

The NBA's uniform covers a lot less of the player than the NFL uniform does.  Since a fair number of NBA players are covered in tattoos...I think that contributes.  

I think the NBA struggled with image for a long time after the Kermit Washington / Tomjanovich episode.  But the difference between Washington and Artest / Jackson / O'Neal is that Washington, still in his prime,  after his suspension, was essentially neutered to the point where he might as well have been banished from the league.  Artest particularly, and to a lesser point, O'Neal and Jackson, were coveted and celebrated by Stern's NBA.

[Marcus13]

Because the media portrays black americans as thugs -- regardless in sports or not

[indeedproceed]

Because the media portrays black americans as thugs -- regardless in sports or not

Pretty fair point. Poor black people (like poor white people) misbehaving makes good TV nowadays. Nobody wants to see the Cleavers or the Huxtables dealing with their petty problems. They want to see crazy.

[fairweatherfan]

I think the difference is in the commissioners and the images of their product that they try to put forth.   

The difference is that Goodell deals with his miscreants with an iron fist whether they are superstars or on the taxi squad.

Stern seems to deal with his players based strictly on their star status at a given time.   

Goodell started cracking down with suspensions after the incidents starting piling up (especially Pac-Man).  So it's not like he's always been this way, this was a response to the egregious stuff his players were doing off the field.

As for Stern, there aren't many examples of him dealing with off-court stuff because there hasn't been much of note.  But Delonte got 10 games for possessing a weapon, Tyreke Evans 2 games for speeding (Adrian Peterson got away with the same thing), suspensions for DUIs are standard, etc.

On-court, Carmelo got a 15-game suspension for one punch while one of the biggest stars in the league, All-Star Artest got a season suspension, and multiple All-Star JO got 25 games (which he didn't "beat", he got it reduced to 15, still a major suspension).  He suspended most of the best players on the Heat and Knicks after their playoff fight.  Magic Johnson got 3 games for bumping a ref,  Kobe got suspended multiple times a few years back for throwing elbows, KG got one for hitting Bogut, budding superstar John Wall got one last year, Bynum 5 this year, etc, etc...

I haven't seen any evidence Stern's afraid to suspend anybody, or that he'd react any differently than Goodell to the serious off-court stuff NFL guys have gotten into.  But again, we don't know because those incidents aren't happening in the first place, which is a big part of my initial point.

[Corey]

Why can't they shake the image?

Because of players like: him

Take a look at his twitter feed and tell me he isn't a self-entitled tough guy who thinks he's better than everyone else.

[JSD]

The NBA is predominantly black, which could be another unfortunate factor.

Yeah, "thug" is frequently used as a coded racist term - but the NFL is mostly black too, and I think everyone on that list I wrote except Roethlisberger is black.  Race might be part of it but there's got to be more there.

I think it really may be the identifiability of NBA uniforms (vs the anonymity of NFL gear) and the more individual nature of the sport that makes it salient to people.  But the blind spot is really bizarre.

There is more but race is a major factor. The faces of the NFL are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers. The most important position is still dominated by white players. These players also share the majority of the limelight helping shed any potential negative perceptions about the league as a whole.

[csfansince60s]

The close association basketball seems to have with hip-hop/rap.

No doubt, sadly, racism does play a big part here.

However, I think that the hip hop/rap connection, and the gangsta life that much (though not all) of that music genre embraces has a huge role in the thug image.

What stands out to me is that year in Vegas when the NBA got all that negative press for the AllStar game that was held there.

That was a pretty big stage which didn't do much to dispel the association between gangsta life and hip/hop rap which is the music most closely associated to the NBA.

[indeedproceed]

Why can't they shake the image?

Because of players like: him

Take a look at his twitter feed and tell me he isn't a self-entitled tough guy who thinks he's better than everyone else.

And you think he's that different than any general professional athlete?

The NBA is predominantly black, which could be another unfortunate factor.

Yeah, "thug" is frequently used as a coded racist term - but the NFL is mostly black too, and I think everyone on that list I wrote except Roethlisberger is black.  Race might be part of it but there's got to be more there.

I think it really may be the identifiability of NBA uniforms (vs the anonymity of NFL gear) and the more individual nature of the sport that makes it salient to people.  But the blind spot is really bizarre.

There is more but race is a major factor. The faces of the NFL are Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers. The most important position is still dominated by white players. These players also share the majority of the limelight helping shed the any potential negative perceptions about the league as a whole.

I thought the same thing as well, but the major faces of the NFL are also black, even Samoan.

Ray Lewis, AP, Troy Polomolu, Vick (before people realized he was a monster on the inside), Tiki Barber when he wasn't a scumbag, LT (before the statutory rape stuff), Jerry Rice, Bo Jackson, the list goes on..and on..

I do think the fact that football is more populated by white superstars is a factor but I don't think its nearly as large as the simple fact that football is vastly more popular at the college and pro levels, and people will look past almost anything if its for a player they root for.

[Moranis]

Basketball players are not only more visible on the court they are more visible off the court as well.  Aside from outliers like T.O. and Ochocinco you almost never see football players in the media, they don't give nearly as many interviews, etc.  Sure they might go on a national sports show to talk about the past or up coming games, but those topics are very limited. Only a few guys have major sponsorships and television ads. The NFL and its teams have encouraged the players to avoid twitter (especially during the season) and other social media.  Basketball is the exact opposite.  And while some athletes are bright and articulate many are not (in all sports) so when you have the high level exposure that the NBA players have, it just creates a certain image.