Author Topic: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?  (Read 34322 times)

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Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #45 on: November 29, 2011, 07:40:31 PM »

Offline chambers

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unfortunately it's because the NFL is a black league with predominantly white quarterbacks who are the face of each team.

The image of the team is based around their quarterback and in some instances two key white players.
ie: Rex Grossman and Urlacher for the Bears. The NFL knows this appeals to it's major audience which is the middle/lower class white American family.
Not all teams have this option as a public image.
Jets is a good example with little Manning and Plax when they won the bowl.

It's just the way America likes to stereotype unfortunately.
A lot of it comes from people who don't like basketballs threat to NFL as the number one sport. I mean it's a looong way away but the game is growing so fast internationally and the athletes in the NBA are pretty much the greatest athletes in the world- this is catching on overseas and basketball is a global game.

For me though, it really does come down to  a racist undertone that's derived from a disliking of basketball.
There's simply nothing else it can be- guys sitting there calling these guys overpaid (black)thugs and drama queens that completely ignore the facts of the NFL lockout or that there are so many more instances in the NFL than the NBA. Most of these people are hypocrites who see the tattoos on the court and the play that revolves around one or two players. The NFL guys tattoos are covered up so it's easier to put it to the side. Obviously there are many more players in the NFL but people will just see what they want to most of the time.
It was just disgusting reading the comments on ESPN after each lockout update article, hundreds of pathetic hypocrites just firing away about the overpaid thugs in the NBA that need to go back to the hood, then preceding with how they can't wait for the NFL playoffs to start. lol.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 07:46:09 PM by chambers »
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Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2011, 08:21:06 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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I don't think all of the perception is unfounded.  A lot of these guys are participating in the "thug life", and unfortunately, those who do overshadow those who do not.

Guys like Carmelo Anthony (stop snitchin'), Stephen Jackson, Zach Randolph, Gilbert Arenas, Kobe Bryant, and Allen Iverson are / were all stars in this league.  Unfortunately, the actions of guys like that overshadows guys like Grant Hill, Shane Battier, and Ray Allen.

As for the NFL, I'm not sure that they totally escape the reputation, either.  Maybe people stereotype NFL players less, but I think that a lot of guys (Vick, Plax, Roethlisberger, etc.) are seen by many as punks and thugs.

Though I agree that the actions of some in the league are definitely not morally up to par, the fact that we refer to it as "thug life" behavior come down to skin color.  People call it "thug life" because NBA players are predominantly black eventhough this type of stuff occurs all over the world and in every type of business.  I work at an engineering firm, and I know multiple people that have gotten arrested for weed, DWIs, have had domestic issues at home.  None of them are black and doubt anyone would ever say they are living the "thug life" or that my company is full of thugz.  We have old white men raping kids in college sports. Should we brand the NCAA as a sport that is full of people living the "Pervert Life"?  The fact that we even brand this behavior as the "thug life" has to do with color. It's wrong to make that generalization because people from all walks of life and skin color make these types of bad decisions.

Eh...  "Thug life" is not all skin color, it's a lifestyle (perpetuated originally by hip hop artists like Tu Pac).  Lots of whites and hispanics who live a similar lifestyle -- crime, a certain fashion style, guns, hip hop -- get called thugs, as well.  (That's without even getting into the fact that lots of hockey players are routinely referred to as thugs, despite being 95%+ white.)

Regarding the NBA, though, it's simple:  those who engage in crime and who behave a certain way are labeled as thugs, and those who don't engage in crime and who behave in the opposite way aren't.  That's why nobody in their right mind has ever called Ray Allen or Shane Battier a thug, despite their skin color.  I don't think racial bias is to blame, I think it's a product of judging people on their actions.

Of course, I'm not around people who are saying that all NBA players are thugs. 

I guess we have different definitions for what constitutes being a "thug."  I wouldn't say that liking hip hop and having a particular fashion style would be factors in making someone a "thug."  To each his own, I guess.
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Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2011, 09:08:16 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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lol

ha

funny reading this...

first define thug

a cruel or vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer

Thug, a common criminal, who treats others violently and roughly

the personality of a thug is not jus sided with one race

all color creed got thug in it


ok..if you ask me the thuggish ever in nba was




bill was a thug~






Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2011, 09:31:30 PM »

Offline butterbeanlove

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Agree with pretty much all of the comments here. All I can add is that 99 percent of the comments I saw about the lock-out from the general public were ridiculous, wrong and predictable.

"Who cares? The last two minutes of an NBA game are the only part worth watching." (Would you prefer 30-point blowouts like college football where the fourth quarter isn't even worth watching?)

"College basketball has more scrappy hustle and so forth because the players don't get paid millions." (Yes, there is no sleaze or payola in big-time college hoops. Blech.)

"The NBA is all one-on-one playground action unlike the teamwork in college basketball." Drive and kick for the contested 3. Whee.

"The NBA isn't worth watching during the regular season." (Yet "playoff hockey" is exalted as transcendant. Either both leagues tank the regular season or neither.)

"Too-Tall freaks etc." Oh yes, unlike those NFL players who are normally dimensioned.

"The games are fixed." OK, the officiating is as bad as ever.

That said, I do blame Stern to a large degree for his urban marketing strategy and emphasis on superstars rather than teams or rivalries and reaching out to "casual fans" with Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.cat Dolls type BS. Somehow he seems to have managed to alienate both the core fans, casual fans and the non-fans. Nice job.

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2011, 09:39:33 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Agree with pretty much all of the comments here. All I can add is that 99 percent of the comments I saw about the lock-out from the general public were ridiculous, wrong and predictable.

"Who cares? The last two minutes of an NBA game are the only part worth watching." (Would you prefer 30-point blowouts like college football where the fourth quarter isn't even worth watching?)

"College basketball has more scrappy hustle and so forth because the players don't get paid millions." (Yes, there is no sleaze or payola in big-time college hoops. Blech.)

"The NBA is all one-on-one playground action unlike the teamwork in college basketball." Drive and kick for the contested 3. Whee.

"The NBA isn't worth watching during the regular season." (Yet "playoff hockey" is exalted as transcendant. Either both leagues tank the regular season or neither.)

"Too-Tall freaks etc." Oh yes, unlike those NFL players who are normally dimensioned.

"The games are fixed." OK, the officiating is as bad as ever.

That said, I do blame Stern to a large degree for his urban marketing strategy and emphasis on superstars rather than teams or rivalries and reaching out to "casual fans" with ****cat Dolls type BS. Somehow he seems to have managed to alienate both the core fans, casual fans and the non-fans. Nice job.


naw dont blame stern


i remember when iverson and others were hurt and couldnt play.. they wore jeans and fitted's with white nikes..chains on the celly..etc


he changed that~took back to old skool..

        they had to wear a suit on the side line

he saw it gettin out of hand..
    

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2011, 10:15:32 PM »

Offline dtrader

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Some would say that the 'behaving a certain way' == 'behaving black', even if we are talking about little more than getting cornrows.

I find it amazingly offensive that people equate "behaving black" with the behavior I described:  engaging in crime, flashing guns, associating with hip hop, etc.  There are millions and millions of blacks who apparently don't "behave black".  How are those blacks (like Battier and Allen and Hill) behaving?  White?  Can't law-abiding blacks get to have a cultural identity of their own?

I know that folks in this thread are criticizing the racial assumptions some fans make about the league as a whole, but I also see dozens of people making racial assumptions of their own.


You're saying, that it's offensive when people equate "behaving black" with crime and guns, because it is an undeserved cultural identity, but at the same time, you have linked hip hop and "a certain style of dress" with "thug life".  It's essentially the same thing.  Hip hop is a culture, and as with any other culture, it has its own "style of dress".  As the predominant culture of young blacks in this country, criminalizing hip hop is at least as damaging to the black population, as a cultural identity involving gun related violence. 

It should not be offensive, to equate "behaving black" with "associating with hip hop", because without a racist predisposition, "associating with hip hop" would not be seen as a negative attribute.  To connect a negative label such as "thug" to hip hop culture as a whole, is to give it a racist (or at least discriminatory) identity.  Using a cultures "style of dress" or music as qualifiers to negatively judge an individual is also discriminatory, as it indicates that all members of that culture have negative essential qualities.

NHL players fight all the time, and are often called "thugs" on the ice, but I have rarely (if ever) heard someone talk about NHL players in general as "thugs" off the ice.  Often the "thugs" of the NHL are spoken of highly as people.  NFL players are rarely held to such generalizations either, despite that they have the same demographics as the NBA.  The difference, is visibility.  When people watch football, they aren't watching black guys.  More specifically, they aren't watching black guys with tattoos, expensive jewelry, and "black" hair styles, representing hip hop culture.  They just see guys in uniform.  Players get fined for removing their helmets, and showing their faces on the field.  When the camera shows the players on the sidelines with their helmets off, who do they most often show?...the coaches (historically white), and the quarterback (historically white).  Its far more difficult to discriminate against an NFL player due to racial bias, because their race (and equally as important, their culture) is so rarely on display.

 The bias didnt originate with Iversons era, as I remember some people initially having a negative view of jordan due to the gold jewelry he wore on the court as a rookie (and his infamously banned shoes).  Then there was the issue with the length of the shorts worn by the fab 5 at Michigan.  In both cases, it was put forward like they cared more about the way they looked, than how they performed (a common stereotype of young blacks). In reality, they were just expressing their culture.  As hip hop culture went from being a fad in the early 80s, to an ingrained part of the black experience in america in the 90's, its stereotypes became ingrained in the NBA as well.  These stereotypes aren't likely to leave the NBA before they leave society in general =/   

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2011, 10:18:50 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Some would say that the 'behaving a certain way' == 'behaving black', even if we are talking about little more than getting cornrows.

I find it amazingly offensive that people equate "behaving black" with the behavior I described:  engaging in crime, flashing guns, associating with hip hop, etc.  There are millions and millions of blacks who apparently don't "behave black".  How are those blacks (like Battier and Allen and Hill) behaving?  White?  Can't law-abiding blacks get to have a cultural identity of their own?

I know that folks in this thread are criticizing the racial assumptions some fans make about the league as a whole, but I also see dozens of people making racial assumptions of their own.


You're saying, that it's offensive when people equate "behaving black" with crime and guns, because it is an undeserved cultural identity, but at the same time, you have linked hip hop and "a certain style of dress" with "thug life".  It's essentially the same thing.  Hip hop is a culture, and as with any other culture, it has its own "style of dress".  As the predominant culture of young blacks in this country, criminalizing hip hop is at least as damaging to the black population, as a cultural identity involving gun related violence.  

It should not be offensive, to equate "behaving black" with "associating with hip hop", because without a racist predisposition, "associating with hip hop" would not be seen as a negative attribute.  To connect a negative label such as "thug" to hip hop culture as a whole, is to give it a racist (or at least discriminatory) identity.  Using a cultures "style of dress" or music as qualifiers to negatively judge an individual is also discriminatory, as it indicates that all members of that culture have negative essential qualities.    

Don't blame me for equating "thug life" with hip hop.  Blame (or credit) Tupac and his progeny.

I still strongly disagree, though, that "black" means "hip hop".  It's as stereotypical and incorrect as saying "white" means "country".  I think we need to stop the stereotyping and racial short-cutting that happens in this country, and treat people as people, not members of a race.  Nobody has the monopoly on what it means to be "black" in this country.


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Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2011, 10:27:21 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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agreeing with Hobbs

Pac did drop the defintion of a thug

intelligibly

accurately 

precisely

he  made  it clear what HE thought "thug life" meant

he had it tatted across himself..

but to me i define a true thug..just like a true gansta.

they stay on the low..u dont brag and boast bout bein a thug..

u out here doin dirt why would u flaunt it..get caught up with the po po..naw


no thugs in the nba..jus wanna b's



Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2011, 10:32:21 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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because it is made up of a bunch of thugs.

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2011, 10:52:53 PM »

Offline JSD

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Some would say that the 'behaving a certain way' == 'behaving black', even if we are talking about little more than getting cornrows.

I find it amazingly offensive that people equate "behaving black" with the behavior I described:  engaging in crime, flashing guns, associating with hip hop, etc.  There are millions and millions of blacks who apparently don't "behave black".  How are those blacks (like Battier and Allen and Hill) behaving?  White?  Can't law-abiding blacks get to have a cultural identity of their own?

I know that folks in this thread are criticizing the racial assumptions some fans make about the league as a whole, but I also see dozens of people making racial assumptions of their own.


You're saying, that it's offensive when people equate "behaving black" with crime and guns, because it is an undeserved cultural identity, but at the same time, you have linked hip hop and "a certain style of dress" with "thug life".  It's essentially the same thing.  Hip hop is a culture, and as with any other culture, it has its own "style of dress".  As the predominant culture of young blacks in this country, criminalizing hip hop is at least as damaging to the black population, as a cultural identity involving gun related violence.  

It should not be offensive, to equate "behaving black" with "associating with hip hop", because without a racist predisposition, "associating with hip hop" would not be seen as a negative attribute.  To connect a negative label such as "thug" to hip hop culture as a whole, is to give it a racist (or at least discriminatory) identity.  Using a cultures "style of dress" or music as qualifiers to negatively judge an individual is also discriminatory, as it indicates that all members of that culture have negative essential qualities.    

Don't blame me for equating "thug life" with hip hop.  Blame (or credit) Tupac and his progeny.

I still strongly disagree, though, that "black" means "hip hop".  It's as stereotypical and incorrect as saying "white" means "country".  I think we need to stop the stereotyping and racial short-cutting that happens in this country, and treat people as people, not members of a race.  Nobody has the monopoly on what it means to be "black" in this country.

Our society is all about grouping people. Hate crimes, gay marriage, affirmative action, sex, belief, ect. This is a moral issue and it is a deeply rooted problem in our society. We need to stop acknowledging people in groups and start focusing on individuals. Easier said than done, I know.

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2011, 11:19:07 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I agree with the previous poster that the visibility of NBA players has a lot to do with, but it is not because people see tattoos and hairstyles.  If it was just about the kind of hair you had and tattoos...wouldn't these guys be thugs too?  People call NBA players thugs for one reason and one reason only...because they see skin color.  It's sad.


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You don't think those guys are perceived as punks / thugs?

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Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2011, 01:07:51 AM »

Offline DarkDragon

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The music industry is dying and rap/hip hop will eventually go back to the undergroud like how it used to be and when it does it wont be closely associated with the NBA as much. I know its more than just music its clothing, its a lifestyle blah blah blah but it all ties together. I mean the thugism image in the NBA started in the 90's when hip hop exploded and there was lots of money to be made from it well thats not gonna last forever.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 01:15:52 AM by DarkDragon »

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #57 on: November 30, 2011, 07:09:54 AM »

Offline Jesus Shuttlesworth #20

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Probably because guys in the NBA are thugs, look at their arms and legs for proof, tat tat tatt'd up.

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #58 on: November 30, 2011, 09:18:01 AM »

Offline housecall

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WHen i look back to the 60's,70's and part of the 80's,pro. sports across the board were filled with higher educated people than it is today.The NBA at one period probably had close to a 90%of players with bachelor degrees or close to it.The "one and done" and guys coming from other walks of life entering the NBA seems to be guys with little life experience and still growing into becoming men.In the 60's,70's,and some of the 80's NBA players average age was close to 20-21 and had spent more time developing in a college atmosphere.If they came into college with a thug mentality,they had time while in school to develop and follow a better path.As long as Sterns keep the rules wide open it will continue to produce the same type product.

Re: Why can't the NBA shake the "thug" image?
« Reply #59 on: November 30, 2011, 09:46:58 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Predominantly white media covering a predominantly black sport.

It's all about race.
I agree actually, but the NFL is predominantly black, and NHL guys are well known not to be angels.

It's the baseball guys that seem to get the free pass, other than roids