Why a 50 / 50 Split? and another thought...

[D Dub]

Case in point-

Dan Gilbert's take from 05'

To me, NBA franchises are like pieces of art. There are only 30 of them. They aren't always on the market, especially a franchise that would have been such a natural fit ... If you just looked at the Cavaliers in terms of revenues, profits and balance sheets -- and you paid this amount for it -- people would say "You're insane! You're nuts." But if you look at all the tentacles, the impact on our other venues, it makes tremendous sense. 

[The Walker Wiggle]

Anybody read Jeff MacGregor at ESPN? I don't typically. But his latest - blustery - editorial caught my attention:

If you can’t manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn’t be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn’t be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

[action781]

Anybody read Jeff MacGregor at ESPN? I don't typically. But his latest - blustery - editorial caught my attention:

If you can’t manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn’t be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn’t be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

Haha, there is definitely some truth in there.  It's hilarious to me that these franchises have revenues in 8-9 figures and yet the owners choose people like Isaiah Thomas (who doesn't even have a college degree), Kiki Vandeweghe, and Steve Kerr to make all the basketball decisions for these teams and then complain about losing money.  Ummmm... duh?

[Chris]

Anybody read Jeff MacGregor at ESPN? I don't typically. But his latest - blustery - editorial caught my attention:

If you can’t manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn’t be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn’t be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

Which is why they are taking advantage of their right to collective bargain a new CBA, that allows them to be more profitable. 

I just hate this idea that the collective bargaining is completely separate from the rest of the business.  When you are talking about reducing costs, in order to increase profits, it would be criminal (to steal his logic) to not first look at the 1 cost that is taking up 57% of the income, to see if that cost can be lowered.

[dmopower]

A 50/50 split is extreemly fair. If the owners don't like that then they can strap on some tennis shoes and you guys can watch them play.   How many games would you guys pay to watch with the owners playing?

[MBz]

Here's the most important thing which is being overlooked in my opinion, majority of people don't care about this lockout.  Remember when the NFL locked out? It was MAJOR news on ESPN all the time.  Does anyone actually feel bad for the players? I definitely don't.  If the NBA does miss major games, it's going to really hurt the game.  To most people, the NBA isn't a good product to begin with. Now you make everyone involved look greedy, it's going to turn even more people off.

[pearljammer10]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

Absurd. This is absolutely absurd. You think Kobe deserves 20 MILLION dollars a year to PLAY basketball? There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and conditioning? Thats your opinion man, basically he is getting paid 20 mil a year to get in the best shape he possibly can while playing a sport he has an absolute passion for. Thats disgusting. Teachers make 24,000 a year to shape and mold our future society. You're telling me a BASKETBALL PLAYER deserves 20 million dollars a year? Get real.

10 million people don't watch a teacher teach, but they do watch Kobe and the Lakers in the playoffs.  35,000 don't pay $100 a ticket to watch the garbage man pick up trash, but the people in L.A. pay that 41 times a year to watch the Lakers.  I find these analogies funny.  Keep them up.

Agreed.  And pearljammer, I am a teacher myself.  I understand how hard teachers work and how underpaid teachers are.  But I never said that Kobe "deserves" his $20 million per year nor did I say whether he was over or underpaid.

All I said is that anyone underestimates the "job" of an NBA player who thinks they just horse around and show up to play 48 min of basketball a few times a week with a fun practice sprinkled in here and there.

Personally, I find teaching pretty fun and have an absolute passion for it.  I'd argue I might have more fun at my job than Kobe does during the rigors of his daily job.  I feel like I just hang out all day while I work.  So, I guess you could say that I'm overpaid too?  (Playing devil's advocate here of course, but I feel there is a point to try to get out of this)

Also, yeah, I'm a teacher and put in a good amount of studying and work to get to the position I'm currently in.  But, I still feel like pro athletes have worked far harder for far longer.  You can't be a pro athlete if you haven't put in 1,000 hours of work per year for ages 10 - 18 unless you are a truly unique person (e.g. Hakeem).  No common person can say they have put that much time and effort into preparing for their career.  Was it fun for the NBA players though?  Sure, maybe some of it was.  But good for them.  They knew what they wanted, set their mind and hearts to it, and achieved it.  I feel like I did the same with my career and am perfectly happy with it.

Theres really no way to argue that the "rigors" of Kobe Bryants job are enough to compensate him 20 million dollars a year.

[Moranis]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

Absurd. This is absolutely absurd. You think Kobe deserves 20 MILLION dollars a year to PLAY basketball? There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and conditioning? Thats your opinion man, basically he is getting paid 20 mil a year to get in the best shape he possibly can while playing a sport he has an absolute passion for. Thats disgusting. Teachers make 24,000 a year to shape and mold our future society. You're telling me a BASKETBALL PLAYER deserves 20 million dollars a year? Get real.

10 million people don't watch a teacher teach, but they do watch Kobe and the Lakers in the playoffs.  35,000 don't pay $100 a ticket to watch the garbage man pick up trash, but the people in L.A. pay that 41 times a year to watch the Lakers.  I find these analogies funny.  Keep them up.

Agreed.  And pearljammer, I am a teacher myself.  I understand how hard teachers work and how underpaid teachers are.  But I never said that Kobe "deserves" his $20 million per year nor did I say whether he was over or underpaid.

All I said is that anyone underestimates the "job" of an NBA player who thinks they just horse around and show up to play 48 min of basketball a few times a week with a fun practice sprinkled in here and there.

Personally, I find teaching pretty fun and have an absolute passion for it.  I'd argue I might have more fun at my job than Kobe does during the rigors of his daily job.  I feel like I just hang out all day while I work.  So, I guess you could say that I'm overpaid too?  (Playing devil's advocate here of course, but I feel there is a point to try to get out of this)

Also, yeah, I'm a teacher and put in a good amount of studying and work to get to the position I'm currently in.  But, I still feel like pro athletes have worked far harder for far longer.  You can't be a pro athlete if you haven't put in 1,000 hours of work per year for ages 10 - 18 unless you are a truly unique person (e.g. Hakeem).  No common person can say they have put that much time and effort into preparing for their career.  Was it fun for the NBA players though?  Sure, maybe some of it was.  But good for them.  They knew what they wanted, set their mind and hearts to it, and achieved it.  I feel like I did the same with my career and am perfectly happy with it.

Theres really no way to argue that the "rigors" of Kobe Bryants job are enough to compensate him 20 million dollars a year.

Kobe brings in way more then that to the Lakers.  That is why he is paid what he is paid.

[mgent]

Wow.  Opening this thread, I never would've guessed you guys are talking about giving the PLAYERS even less than 50/50.

That's unbelievably ridiculous.  Do you not know how other pro sports work?  Can somebody find the numbers?  A 50/50 split would be embarrassing in comparison.  Nevermind less.

[mgent]

Anybody read Jeff MacGregor at ESPN? I don't typically. But his latest - blustery - editorial caught my attention:

If you can’t manage a pro team at a modest profit in the United States of America in the early years of the 21st century, you shouldn’t be allowed to vote or operate a motor vehicle. You shouldn’t be allowed near the stove.

At a time when the production and consumption of distraction are the only healthy sectors of the American economy, and when city, county, state and federal tax dollars pay for the arenas and the stadiums, to lose money on the operation of a pro sports franchise has to be grounds for involuntary psychiatric commitment. Or prosecution.

Which is why they are taking advantage of their right to collective bargain a new CBA, that allows them to be more profitable. 

I just hate this idea that the collective bargaining is completely separate from the rest of the business.  When you are talking about reducing costs, in order to increase profits, it would be criminal (to steal his logic) to not first look at the 1 cost that is taking up 57% of the income, to see if that cost can be lowered.

Why is that the first thing you'd look at?  The players are the entertainers, all the money made is directly or indirectly because of them.  The 57% is theirs, leave it alone.

If you want to "reduce costs" then why don't you reduce your own costs?  Cut spending.  Do what you need to do to with the money you have.  That should be the FIRST logical step.  Not asking for more.  They've already proven they can't spend responsibly, why do they deserve more?

If a bucket has a hole do you fix the problem or are you gonna just keep adding water and hope it doesn't drain again?

[mgent]

I also disagree with the OP in that the players have no risk or liability whatsoever.  They're giving up their bodies, and shortening their life expectancy in the process.  For guys like Big Baby, Rondo, DWest who go all out and hit the ground every play, they're pretty much asking to be injured.

And don't say "anybody can get injured", that's way different, most of us aren't putting ourselves in harm's way on a daily basis.

There's even guys like Reggie Lewis who gave their lives for the game.  I can't see how risking money automatically trumps risking your body.  Even if the owners lose every penny they spent on the team, at least they're guaranteed their health.

[MBz]

Wow.  Opening this thread, I never would've guessed you guys are talking about giving the PLAYERS even less than 50/50.

That's unbelievably ridiculous.  Do you not know how other pro sports work?  Can somebody find the numbers?  A 50/50 split would be embarrassing in comparison.  Nevermind less.

I don't think we can compare it to other professional sports.  I believe the NFL and MLB make much more money then the NBA.  They simply deliver a better product which allows them to pay out more.  The NBA just isn't delivering a good product right now.  There are too many teams, certain teams are irrelevant as we have too many players migrating from small market teams to big market teams to make superteams.  Sure a team like the Raptors were never huge to begin with, but at least they had Chris Bosh so they had someone they could build their ads around. 

[Moranis]

Wow.  Opening this thread, I never would've guessed you guys are talking about giving the PLAYERS even less than 50/50.

That's unbelievably ridiculous.  Do you not know how other pro sports work?  Can somebody find the numbers?  A 50/50 split would be embarrassing in comparison.  Nevermind less.

I don't think we can compare it to other professional sports.  I believe the NFL and MLB make much more money then the NBA.  They simply deliver a better product which allows them to pay out more.  The NBA just isn't delivering a good product right now.  There are too many teams, certain teams are irrelevant as we have too many players migrating from small market teams to big market teams to make superteams.  Sure a team like the Raptors were never huge to begin with, but at least they had Chris Bosh so they had someone they could build their ads around. 

NBA ratings were the highest they had been in years.  The 4 biggest franchises the Celtics, Knicks, Lakers, and Bulls all made the playoffs for the first time since the 94-95 season.  The NBA is perhaps at an all time high with respect to popularity. 

[Chris]

Wow.  Opening this thread, I never would've guessed you guys are talking about giving the PLAYERS even less than 50/50.

That's unbelievably ridiculous.  Do you not know how other pro sports work?  Can somebody find the numbers?  A 50/50 split would be embarrassing in comparison.  Nevermind less.

In the NFL, players get about 47-48% of total revenue.  So, even if baseball and hockey are above 50%, then there is at least a baseline there.

[LB3533]

I feel the players should be making more than just 50/50.

The players are the ones who are doing the work and making the product.

Sure the owners are putting up their money, but that's their job.

Remember, it's part of their job!