Why a 50 / 50 Split? and another thought...

[ScoobyDoo]

1. Why should the owners agree to even a 50/50 split? The owners bear all the liability and all the risk in this equation.

The owners have all the liability in this equation -
* They have to pay the salaries of the players, their own staffs (coaches, scouts, trainers, marketing teams, management, security, Doctors, surgeries, the airfares to fly, the equipment, the daily spending allowances while on the road the daily spending fees. They have to pay stadium fees if they don't own the joint, pay the staff during games, insurances on everything, taxes on everything.

They are liable for everything and can be sued seven ways to Sunday for almost anything imaginable.

What, exactly, is the players liability?
* They get a contract because they are uniquely talented at what they do
* They show up on time - "usually" - to play a game, or a practice.
* They have people carrying their bags their sneakers, their clothing, basically their jock strap.
* They fly around the country, stay in 4 star hotels and play a 48 minute game 3-4 times a week. Have some practices and game tape in between and have the summer off.
* Basketball, even practicing is "fun".
* They have world class trainers, doctors and physical therapists pampering them night and day.

They may attract the crowds - but the owners have the liability of putting together the venue for the crowds to enjoy.

I would think anything more than a 53/47 split in favor of the owners would be ridiculously unfair. And it doesn't matter that the owners may make a lot of money. They should, they have all the liability. The players are "employees".  

2. I can understand a massive labor brawl during great economic times. But this labor strike is affecting thousands of related jobs that are desperately needed by people during one of the worst economic downturns since the great depression.

I think it just looks really bad for the league that these two camps are in a p---ing match about exactly how many millions they each will end up making.

And I am all for KG, Kobe, etc, making $20 mil a year if the market bears it. I love it

But in this economic environment, where so many other people are relying on the related jobs the NBA creates - I say everyone get back to work immediately under the current agreement or a slightly altered agreement for one year, with ongoing negotiations for a final deal being done behind the scenes throughout the season.

My two cents.    
      

[Inside-Out]

This is all true.  It seems that some owners have figured out that they're bidding against themselves.

no other league is going to pay stars much more than $5 million, I think...

[greenpride32]

I agree the players should not even receive 50%.  If they want to think of themselves as carrying the league and being the "product" that is only true of the superstars; a very small minority of the union.  So why reward all the other 90-95% of the regular players?

But it's all about leverage.  It used to be a 50/50 split, and over time with each new CBA it crept up to 57%.  This is largely in part to Jordan.  During his era the league soared in growth and profits.  The owners had no choice but to reward the players or a lockout would mean missing out on profits.

We are now on the other end of the spectrum.  Owners lose money by playing the games.  But the players are not willing to give back.  There are plenty of legitimate arguements about why the league needs financial reform.  But listen to the player comments.  All they are saying is we are united, the owners can't break us, etc.  What is their actual arguement or justification for deserving a huge piece of the pie when the league is failing?  The league is no different than any other business in that if it isn't profitable there will come a time where it will no longer exist.

[Moranis]

This is all true.  It seems that some owners have figured out that they're bidding against themselves.

no other league is going to pay stars much more than $5 million, I think...

except that they get more then that.  Deron Williams gets 5 million euros a year, a furnished luxury apartment, a luxury car with driver and security, and numerous other expensive perks.  His salary might even be take home ala after taxes as is common place in much of Europe for the star players.

And let's be real here, Deron Williams isn't exactly a Kobe Bryant or a Lebron James.  Heck, he isn't even a Kevin Garnett or a Paul Pierce.

[nickagneta]

This is all true. 

Actually, it's not.

The owners can't be sued by the players due to anti-trust exemptions.

This is not a players strike it is an owners lock out of the players.

The players are employees but also the product, without the players the owners have no business.

[snowball]

I am in full agreement.
Players Union is being greedy.
Although perhaps up to half of players
are not the ones pushing the union for
these ridiculous concessions, it is obvious
that the brass will push the envelope as far
as they can.
I have been a critic of Comm. Stern on internal
issues, however when it comes to current financial
truths, he is the only voice of reason.

[action781]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

[nickagneta]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

TP and thank you action...saved me a bunch of time not having to write that.

[Coach]

This is all true. 

Actually, it's not.

The owners can't be sued by the players due to anti-trust exemptions.

This is not a players strike it is an owners lock out of the players.

The players are employees but also the product, without the players the owners have no business.

not true.  The NBA could always find players to play.  That's like saying a factory worker is the product.  The playes are key cogs in the NBA machinery, but they aren't the only reason for success.  The game is the product.  The players are the workers who produce the product.  The league would survive with out one of these guys.

[fairweatherfan]

But it's all about leverage.  It used to be a 50/50 split, and over time with each new CBA it crept up to 57%.  This is largely in part to Jordan.  During his era the league soared in growth and profits.  The owners had no choice but to reward the players or a lockout would mean missing out on profits.

This was refuted in the other thread - it's been around 57% since the league instituted a salary cap in 1983.  I'd welcome a source to the contrary, though.

[Moranis]

This is all true. 

Actually, it's not.

The owners can't be sued by the players due to anti-trust exemptions.

This is not a players strike it is an owners lock out of the players.

The players are employees but also the product, without the players the owners have no business.

not true.  The NBA could always find players to play.  That's like saying a factory worker is the product.  The playes are key cogs in the NBA machinery, but they aren't the only reason for success.  The game is the product.  The players are the workers who produce the product.  The league would survive with out one of these guys.

Yeah but without the best players you have the NBADL or one of the other lesser leagues, where the product is worse and no one watches.  

Your factory analogy just doesn't work because NBA players can do things the average person can't (not true of your average factory worker).  NBA players aren't quite Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, but they are much closer to those guys then your average assembly line worker.  Not just anyone can replace Lebron James, pretty much anyone can replace John Smith factory worker.

[pearljammer10]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

Absurd. This is absolutely absurd. You think Kobe deserves 20 MILLION dollars a year to PLAY basketball? There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and conditioning? Thats your opinion man, basically he is getting paid 20 mil a year to get in the best shape he possibly can while playing a sport he has an absolute passion for. Thats disgusting. Teachers make 24,000 a year to shape and mold our future society. You're telling me a BASKETBALL PLAYER deserves 20 million dollars a year? Get real.

[Moranis]

Yeah, they just show up for 48 minutes of work a few times a week...

Are you serious?  I don't even know where to begin.  Kobe Bryant puts in a 10 hour work day in the OFFSEASON.  Ray Allen puts in similar himself during the offseason and regular season.  And these players have been working their butts off during off and on seasons their entire lives for the opportunity to make this pay day.

It's like... do some specialist doctors and lawyers really deserve 6-7 figure pay checks for working 40 hour weeks?  You aren't paying for what they do, you're paying for all the hours and hours and hours of work they've put in their entire lives to accumulate the special knowledge they have in their field.

I know you're saying they are playing a "fun game".  But they things they do aren't horsing around with buddies.  It's 100% all the time.  There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and doing conditioning exercises for 2+ hours a day, for almost every day of your life.  Having basketballs repeatedly fed to you while you shoot hundreds of repetitive jumpshots over a couple hours isn't fun.  Still continuing to show up to the gym on sprained ankles, swollen fingers, sore backs, etc. isn't fun.  

Sure, I think I'd still like to be a pro basketball player.  But, I think you're severely underestimating what a "job" being a pro basketball player (or any athlete) is.

Absurd. This is absolutely absurd. You think Kobe deserves 20 MILLION dollars a year to PLAY basketball? There is hardly anything fun about lifting weights and conditioning? Thats your opinion man, basically he is getting paid 20 mil a year to get in the best shape he possibly can while playing a sport he has an absolute passion for. Thats disgusting. Teachers make 24,000 a year to shape and mold our future society. You're telling me a BASKETBALL PLAYER deserves 20 million dollars a year? Get real.

10 million people don't watch a teacher teach, but they do watch Kobe and the Lakers in the playoffs.  35,000 don't pay $100 a ticket to watch the garbage man pick up trash, but the people in L.A. pay that 41 times a year to watch the Lakers.  I find these analogies funny.  Keep them up.

[diconzo]

This is all true.  It seems that some owners have figured out that they're bidding against themselves.

no other league is going to pay stars much more than $5 million, I think...

except that they get more then that.  Deron Williams gets 5 million euros a year, a furnished luxury apartment, a luxury car with driver and security, and numerous other expensive perks.  His salary might even be take home ala after taxes as is common place in much of Europe for the star players.

And let's be real here, Deron Williams isn't exactly a Kobe Bryant or a Lebron James.  Heck, he isn't even a Kevin Garnett or a Paul Pierce.

Off topic but I think Deron is overrated too. My top 5 would be CP3, DRose, Rondo, Westbrook, DWill. (Think about it, what does Deron Williams do that makes him SO good?)

[timpiker]

and the players who get the guaranteed contracts can get drunk and still get paid (i.e. Vin Baker)....even back pay if they get suspended..........  what a joke.  The players are so stupid.