Author Topic: Basketball HOF Survivor Game  (Read 41552 times)

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Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2011, 10:17:40 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Alright, seven players left, so we can't give positive points to four players and negative points to four.  (Well, we can, but we'd be giving both positive and negative points to one player).

So, now what?


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Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2011, 10:18:32 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Alright, seven players left, so we can't give positive points to four players and negative points to four.  (Well, we can, but we'd be giving both positive and negative points to one player).

So, now what?


Can I give points to Scali?

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #62 on: October 06, 2011, 10:23:23 AM »

Offline Who

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I think Grant Hill's college accomplishments are overstated.

Hill wasn't a star player on either of those two national titles. Christian Laettner was their leader and Bobby Hurley was their second best player. Grant Hill was a good starter on the first title team and a third wheel on the second. He didn't become an elite college player until after Laettner left.

I don't think his college resume and injury riddled NBA career is enough to push him above all the players he is ranked ahead of right now.
I admit I sorta thought of that, but some of these other players didn't play college ball and have no accomplishments at all. I sorta feel like the Olympics even out a little.
Grant Hill also never made it past the first round when he was a star player. He has no team success in the NBA as a high level player.

His only playoff run happened with Nash when he was a journeyman swingman.

I don't understand how Grant Hill is so highly. He won less in the NBA and had a shorter peak (due to injury) than anyone else on this list.

I tend to agree - I think Hill's college and Olympic experience just barely push him from the bad to the good side of borderline HOFer.  I don't think he's decisively above players like Nash, Miller or even LeBron by any means.
His contributions in the Olympics doesn't mean much to be me either. He played 22 minutes a game and averaged 10, 3 and 3. Hill played on a team loaded with talent that completely overpowered every opponent and would have done so with or without him on the court.

His international accomplishments pale in comparison to people like Pau Gasol and Manu Ginobili. Hill was a role player in the Olympics. Those guys where stars that were the driving force behind their team teams.


Neither Gasol nor Manu got past the first round without having a better player on their team (Kobe and Duncan)

In fact Gasol never won a playoff game with out Kobe on the team. 

I don't think either player, Pau or Manu, has achieved enough in the NBA to be a sure-fire HoF based on their NBA play alone. Manu because he came over to the NBA late and had a relatively short career. Pau, at 31 and entering the tail end of his prime, still has time to add to his resume and change that.

However, both guys have achieved a tremendous amount in international basketball and their contributions there far exceeds the rest of the guys on this list. It pushes them over the top and makes them sure-fire HoFs.

Their team success is also a separating factor. The HoF puts a huge amount of importance on team achievement.

Grant Hill cannot compete with their accomplishments and his own superior individual play is not enough to overcome that because of the injuries that scarred and shortened (as an elite player) his NBA career and the lack of achievement on the biggest stage (NBA playoffs). 

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2011, 10:25:29 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I think Grant Hill's college accomplishments are overstated.

Hill wasn't a star player on either of those two national titles. Christian Laettner was their leader and Bobby Hurley was their second best player. Grant Hill was a good starter on the first title team and a third wheel on the second. He didn't become an elite college player until after Laettner left.

I don't think his college resume and injury riddled NBA career is enough to push him above all the players he is ranked ahead of right now.
I admit I sorta thought of that, but some of these other players didn't play college ball and have no accomplishments at all. I sorta feel like the Olympics even out a little.
Grant Hill also never made it past the first round when he was a star player. He has no team success in the NBA as a high level player.

His only playoff run happened with Nash when he was a journeyman swingman.

I don't understand how Grant Hill is so highly. He won less in the NBA and had a shorter peak (due to injury) than anyone else on this list.

I tend to agree - I think Hill's college and Olympic experience just barely push him from the bad to the good side of borderline HOFer.  I don't think he's decisively above players like Nash, Miller or even LeBron by any means.
His contributions in the Olympics doesn't mean much to be me either. He played 22 minutes a game and averaged 10, 3 and 3. Hill played on a team loaded with talent that completely overpowered every opponent and would have done so with or without him on the court.

His international accomplishments pale in comparison to people like Pau Gasol and Manu Ginobili. Hill was a role player in the Olympics. Those guys where stars that were the driving force behind their team teams.


Neither Gasol nor Manu got past the first round without having a better player on their team (Kobe and Duncan)

In fact Gasol never won a playoff game with out Kobe on the team. 

I don't think either player, Pau or Manu, has achieved enough in the NBA to be a sure-fire HoF based on their NBA play alone. Manu because he came over to the NBA late and had a relatively short career. Pau, at 31 and entering the tail end of his prime, still has time to add to his resume and change that.

However, both guys have achieved a tremendous amount in international basketball and their contributions there far exceeds the rest of the guys on this list. It pushes them over the top and makes them sure-fire HoFs.

Their team success is also a separating factor. The HoF puts a huge amount of importance on team achievement.

Grant Hill cannot compete with their accomplishments and his own superior individual play is not enough to overcome that because of the injuries that scarred and shortened (as an elite player) his NBA career and the lack of achievement on the biggest stage (NBA playoffs). 


Two NCAA titles. 

Lead a third team to the NCAA finals. 



And in his prime, a better player then both of them.

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2011, 10:27:57 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Alright, seven players left, so we can't give positive points to four players and negative points to four.  (Well, we can, but we'd be giving both positive and negative points to one player).

So, now what?

Um...hadn't thought of that.  Ok, quick ruling:


Ok, now you've got 8 + points and 8 - points and can apply them however you like.  Sounds good enough, I guess.


I suppose the game is over when we get down to 2 players, or when nobody wants to vote anymore. 

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2011, 10:30:10 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Pau Gasol (32)
Manu Ginobili (51)
Grant Hill (59)
Reggie Miller (23)
Steve Nash (37)
Dirk Nowitzki (75)
Dwyane Wade (49)


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2011, 09:38:00 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Pau Gasol (32)
Manu Ginobili (52)
Grant Hill (60)
Reggie Miller (24)
Steve Nash (33)
Dirk Nowitzki (80)
Dwyane Wade (45)

-4 D Wade - 4 Nash

Nash had no major college experience to boast of

+1 Manu +1 Reggie +1 Grant +5 Dirk

Pau. What to do with Pau. Not sure. Maybe nothing




Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2011, 10:42:27 PM »

Offline mooltrikon

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Pau Gasol (32)
Manu Ginobili (44)
Grant Hill (60)
Reggie Miller (24)
Steve Nash (33)
Dirk Nowitzki (88)
Dwyane Wade (45)

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2011, 10:52:14 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Steve Nash over Reggie Miller? Yeah I don't think so

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2011, 10:54:22 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Pau Gasol (32)
Manu Ginobili (46)
Grant Hill (60)
Reggie Miller (30)
Steve Nash (29)
Dirk Nowitzki (88)
Dwyane Wade (41)

-4 each for Nash and Wade

+6 for Reggie +2 Manu

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2011, 10:59:13 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Disappointed to see LeBron James go so early.

Two MVPs. Five All-NBA first team selections. Two second team selections. Three times All-Defense. Two trips to the NBA Finals, one run to the Conference Finals and three second round appearances.
I got the distinct impression he cared more about sell shoes, tattoos, making commercials and money than he did about basketball or competing.

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2011, 11:00:54 PM »

Offline Who

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Pau Gasol (36)
Manu Ginobili (46)
Grant Hill (56)
Reggie Miller (30)
Steve Nash (33)
Dirk Nowitzki (88)
Dwyane Wade (37)

+4 for Pau and Nash
-4 for Hill and Wade

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2011, 11:02:51 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Pau Gasol (36)
Manu Ginobili (46)
Grant Hill (60)
Reggie Miller (34)
Steve Nash (29)
Dirk Nowitzki (88)
Dwyane Wade (33)

-4 each for Nash and Wade

+4 for Grant +4 for Reggie


Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2011, 11:04:56 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I admit Pau is the one I'm stuck on. 

Re: Basketball HOF Survivor Game
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2011, 11:16:24 PM »

Offline Who

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My top three are Dirk, Manu and Pau.

Then I have Wade and Nash. Unsure what order to put them in. Wade will clearly pass him out over the next couple of seasons but I am unsure if he has done so yet.

With Reggie Miller and Grant Hill failing to make the cut.