Rondo= Best PG today

[BballTim]

There's a big difference between rewarding guys who run with you and forcing guys to catch up to you to finish off your pass. If your going to pretend that what you see above is anything less then Rondo racking up some easy assists theres no point in me continuing to argue with you. I would think any objective fan can admit that Rondo pads his assists every once in a while. Being a fan doesn't mean you have to pretend your favorite players doesn't have his flaws.

  First of all it's ridiculous to claim that nba players have to be "forced" to run 20 feet up the court to make a layup. The next time Paul or Ray complain about taking open layups will probably be the first time ever. Secondly, I never said Rondo never does that, I said other point guards do it as well, and any objective fan would notice this.

I watch a lot of basketball, and the guys we're talking about (CP3, D WIlliams, Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose) do not stat-pad their assists. But, that is not my biggest problem with Rondo, by a long shot.

My biggest problem with Rondo is not his 'stat-padding', but it is his blatant reluctance to shoot. For a guy that (dependent on health) has the ability to get wherever he wants whenever he wants, and on top of that is surrounded by 3 elite jump shooters for the majority of the time he's on the floor, Rondo has a ridiculously low volume of shots attempted at the rim, especially considering his lack of a real jumpshot.

Rondo is too deferential in his own attacking the rim. Some might call that 'stat padding', but I think it has to do with a mental inconsistency.

  This year he was battling health problems for much of the season which impacted his offensive aggressiveness but he's more aggressive in the playoffs. During the season he averaged about 10 shots a game, he was averaging 15 a game in the playoffs before his injury. During the season he averaged 4 shots a game at the rim, during the playoffs he was probably double that before his elbow injury.

Rondo's 4 attempts at the rim though are not the same as say...CP3 taking 4 attempts at the rim, because Rondo doesn't have range on his jumper. So, realistically speaking, his 4 attempts at the rim are the only attempts that really matter from Rondo, because he's a more effective passer the more he penetrates, and he's more likely to draw fouls and disrupt spacing.

  I'm not quite sure what this means, but I'd say Rondo was a pretty effective passer whether he was penetrating or not this year.

Are you claiming that Deron has never passed the ball to someone else on a breakaway? Or, more likely, you know that he also does that every once in a while, the difference being you don't consider it to be stat padding.

I will claim that Deron Williams could count on his fingers the number of times during an NBA game he passed up an open lay-in or dunk to wait up for a trailing teammate to give them the bucket.

  So Williams is a selfish player who pads his scoring stats. I can see why people are so enthralled with him.

Ha, no. And I dont think anyone who read that honestly would think that's what I'm saying.

  What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Rondo's passing the ball on occasion isn't necessarily more selfish than Deron's rarely passing the ball.

 Again, though, what's the point of your "stat padding" argument? If he shot the ball instead of passing in in the situations you showed then he'd get two more points for every assist he lost and his fg% and PER and WS/48 and other stats would go up as well. His numbers would more closely match what you see from other point guards. That would cut into the arguments against him.

THat's kind of like saying 'If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points, and his field goal % would have risen, and he would've closely mirrored Tim Duncan's production.'

  If you don't see a difference between "If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points" and "if Rondo had taken uncontested layups instead of letting other players take uncontested layups" then I don't know what to say.

My point was that what you're insinuating Rondo 'could' do more (ie be more aggressive on a nightly basis, and look for his own shot more) may not be something that is in his nature to do, much like it is not in Rasheed's nature to live on the block.

  My point was that whether Rondo took those uncontested layups or let Ray and Paul take them makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As to your point, I'd say that we've seen Rondo "do more" for somewhat extended periods of time and we won't know whether he'll do it on a regular basis unless he's on a team that calls for that to happen.

First of all, Rondo isn't terribly inconsistent. If you disagree, go back to the first month or two of the season when he was healthy and show me all the games he took the night off. Secondly, I think that when Rondo tries to play through injuries, a lot of the posters here are quick to attribute the dropoff to his game to mental issues.

I actually looked at this pretty in-depth earlier in the year (comparing Rondo's play earlier in the season to his play later).

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/3/10/2042655/by-the-numbers-is-rajon-rondo-off-lately

Rajon Rondo is a streaky, inconsistent player, and it lies almost entirely in his own aggressiveness. If he played an entire year at the level he played the first two months of the season, you'd have a leg to stand on, but he never has.

  IMO you're comparing Rondo's play when he was healthy to later in the season when he was banged up (among other things, having hand issues) and somehow claiming that this proves he's an inconsistent player, or that his bad play was unrelated to health issues. And of course he's never had an entire year when he played at the level he did the first two months of the season, his game improved significantly last year.

[BballTim]

Would the bulls, nets or hornets have better records with Rondo running the point?

The Bulls might be. Their team would probably have similar scoring deficiencies that the Celtics have now but Rondo brings everything but scoring to the table.

Bulls would be worse.  Take Rose off that time and add in an offensively deficient Rondo to that bunch and they'll have even more trouble scoring.   They had stretches last season where it was painful to watch them on the offensive end.  Add Rondo and subtract Rose, and it'd be worse.

  Because better (and more) shots wouldn't benefit Deng or Boozer or Noah or Korver?

Its kind of the opposite argument you run into with Rondo.

Point: "Rondo couldn't what Rose does."
CounterPoint: "He could, but he doesn't have to, because of how good the Big 3 are."

Point: "Rose can't do what Rondo does."
Counterpoint: "He could, but he has to play the way he does because he's surrounded by very limited offensive players who shrink in the 4th quarter."

  I think it's unlikely that Rondo could do what Rose does, and equally unlikely that Rose could ever do what Rondo does. The point is there's more than one way to skin a cat. People look at the way Rose carries the Bulls offense and the way Rondo scores and sees a huge dropoff if you swap them. You would see a big dropoff in scoring from the pg spot. But Rondo's better at running an offense than Rose, has better vision, and is a better passer. So players like Boozer, Noah, Deng and the like suddenly get better passes in better spots, more shots and easier shots. The same way the Celts do.They score more and score more efficiently, and that goes to offset the dropoff in scoring from the pg spot. Put Rondo on that team, and maybe those players look a little less limited on offense.

[indeedproceed]

Rondo's 4 attempts at the rim though are not the same as say...CP3 taking 4 attempts at the rim, because Rondo doesn't have range on his jumper. So, realistically speaking, his 4 attempts at the rim are the only attempts that really matter from Rondo, because he's a more effective passer the more he penetrates, and he's more likely to draw fouls and disrupt spacing.

  I'm not quite sure what this means, but I'd say Rondo was a pretty effective passer whether he was penetrating or not this year.

Rondo is a good passer on the perimeter, but he's a far better player when he's using his speed, agility, smarts, and long arms to get inside and do damage. This is known. He is not actively seeking out situations which result in contact. This is also known. Look at the part of my quote you deleted for proof.

Are you claiming that Deron has never passed the ball to someone else on a breakaway? Or, more likely, you know that he also does that every once in a while, the difference being you don't consider it to be stat padding.

I will claim that Deron Williams could count on his fingers the number of times during an NBA game he passed up an open lay-in or dunk to wait up for a trailing teammate to give them the bucket.

  So Williams is a selfish player who pads his scoring stats. I can see why people are so enthralled with him.

Ha, no. And I dont think anyone who read that honestly would think that's what I'm saying.

  What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Rondo's passing the ball on occasion isn't necessarily more selfish than Deron's rarely passing the ball.

Deron Williams' assist ration (% of time his poss results in an assist) is seventh highest among starting point guards. There are only six starting PG's in the NBA (and 10 other PG's total) who pass the ball more than WIlliams. This is off topic, but saying Deron WIliams rarely passes the ball is completely and irrefutably false.

  Again, though, what's the point of your "stat padding" argument? If he shot the ball instead of passing in in the situations you showed then he'd get two more points for every assist he lost and his fg% and PER and WS/48 and other stats would go up as well. His numbers would more closely match what you see from other point guards. That would cut into the arguments against him.

THat's kind of like saying 'If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points, and his field goal % would have risen, and he would've closely mirrored Tim Duncan's production.'

  If you don't see a difference between "If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points" and "if Rondo had taken uncontested layups instead of letting other players take uncontested layups" then I don't know what to say.

My point was that what you're insinuating Rondo 'could' do more (ie be more aggressive on a nightly basis, and look for his own shot more) may not be something that is in his nature to do, much like it is not in Rasheed's nature to live on the block.

  My point was that whether Rondo took those uncontested layups or let Ray and Paul take them makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As to your point, I'd say that we've seen Rondo "do more" for somewhat extended periods of time and we won't know whether he'll do it on a regular basis unless he's on a team that calls for that to happen.

"Somewhat extended periods" is a suitably vague amount of time so that I can't really disagree. Let's make it more concrete; he's never done it for a full half of a season in his 4 years as a starter, or 5 years as a pro. DOesn't mean he never will (check out my various defenses of Kyle Lowry during the CB Draft for examples of how out on a limb I will go for someone), but it does mean we can't put him in the same conversation as people who have.

First of all, Rondo isn't terribly inconsistent. If you disagree, go back to the first month or two of the season when he was healthy and show me all the games he took the night off. Secondly, I think that when Rondo tries to play through injuries, a lot of the posters here are quick to attribute the dropoff to his game to mental issues.

I actually looked at this pretty in-depth earlier in the year (comparing Rondo's play earlier in the season to his play later).

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/3/10/2042655/by-the-numbers-is-rajon-rondo-off-lately

Rajon Rondo is a streaky, inconsistent player, and it lies almost entirely in his own aggressiveness. If he played an entire year at the level he played the first two months of the season, you'd have a leg to stand on, but he never has.

  IMO you're comparing Rondo's play when he was healthy to later in the season when he was banged up (among other things, having hand issues) and somehow claiming that this proves he's an inconsistent player, or that his bad play was unrelated to health issues.

Well, look at the timestamp on the article. At the time, Doc, Rondo, Danny, and the Pope were all swearing up and down that Rondo was healthy, and not shaken up like a Bond martini from the Perkins trade. We learned later that he wasn't healthy, and was shaken up like a Bond martini.

And of course he's never had an entire year when he played at the level he did the first two months of the season, his game improved significantly last year.

His game improved for what, less than a quarter of a season (19 total games played before his injury)? After which he played 48 pretty wildly inconsistent games over the course of 4 months?

While I won't dispute the near-MVP level of play Rondo showed for the first 20 games he played this season, I do think that the next 48 games he played showed that maybe that was a hot streak, rather than an indicator of a baseline that he's capable of right now.

[BballTim]

Rondo's 4 attempts at the rim though are not the same as say...CP3 taking 4 attempts at the rim, because Rondo doesn't have range on his jumper. So, realistically speaking, his 4 attempts at the rim are the only attempts that really matter from Rondo, because he's a more effective passer the more he penetrates, and he's more likely to draw fouls and disrupt spacing.

  I'm not quite sure what this means, but I'd say Rondo was a pretty effective passer whether he was penetrating or not this year.

Rondo is a good passer on the perimeter, but he's a far better player when he's using his speed, agility, smarts, and long arms to get inside and do damage. This is known. He is not actively seeking out situations which result in contact. This is also known. Look at the part of my quote you deleted for proof.

  He generally avoids contact for various reasons. I don't disagree with this. I'll go back and read the older posts when I get a chance, but I'm still confused about what this part of the discussion is really about.

Are you claiming that Deron has never passed the ball to someone else on a breakaway? Or, more likely, you know that he also does that every once in a while, the difference being you don't consider it to be stat padding.

I will claim that Deron Williams could count on his fingers the number of times during an NBA game he passed up an open lay-in or dunk to wait up for a trailing teammate to give them the bucket.

  So Williams is a selfish player who pads his scoring stats. I can see why people are so enthralled with him.

Ha, no. And I dont think anyone who read that honestly would think that's what I'm saying.

  What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Rondo's passing the ball on occasion isn't necessarily more selfish than Deron's rarely passing the ball.

Deron Williams' assist ration (% of time his poss results in an assist) is seventh highest among starting point guards. There are only six starting PG's in the NBA (and 10 other PG's total) who pass the ball more than WIlliams. This is off topic, but saying Deron WIliams rarely passes the ball is completely and irrefutably false.

  Calm down. We're talking about breakaways, and you've claimed that he passes up open layups to let people running behind him score roughly once or twice a year. That seems fairly rare.

  Again, though, what's the point of your "stat padding" argument? If he shot the ball instead of passing in in the situations you showed then he'd get two more points for every assist he lost and his fg% and PER and WS/48 and other stats would go up as well. His numbers would more closely match what you see from other point guards. That would cut into the arguments against him.

THat's kind of like saying 'If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points, and his field goal % would have risen, and he would've closely mirrored Tim Duncan's production.'

  If you don't see a difference between "If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points" and "if Rondo had taken uncontested layups instead of letting other players take uncontested layups" then I don't know what to say.

My point was that what you're insinuating Rondo 'could' do more (ie be more aggressive on a nightly basis, and look for his own shot more) may not be something that is in his nature to do, much like it is not in Rasheed's nature to live on the block.

  My point was that whether Rondo took those uncontested layups or let Ray and Paul take them makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As to your point, I'd say that we've seen Rondo "do more" for somewhat extended periods of time and we won't know whether he'll do it on a regular basis unless he's on a team that calls for that to happen.

"Somewhat extended periods" is a suitably vague amount of time so that I can't really disagree. Let's make it more concrete; he's never done it for a full half of a season in his 4 years as a starter, or 5 years as a pro. DOesn't mean he never will (check out my various defenses of Kyle Lowry during the CB Draft for examples of how out on a limb I will go for someone), but it does mean we can't put him in the same conversation as people who have.

  No, he's never done it as a starter, when he's on a team with Ray and Paul and KG and he's a pass first pg. I'd say that he's generally stepped into a bigger role on the offense when one or more of them were injured, but clearly that hasn't happened for a 40 game stretch.

First of all, Rondo isn't terribly inconsistent. If you disagree, go back to the first month or two of the season when he was healthy and show me all the games he took the night off. Secondly, I think that when Rondo tries to play through injuries, a lot of the posters here are quick to attribute the dropoff to his game to mental issues.

I actually looked at this pretty in-depth earlier in the year (comparing Rondo's play earlier in the season to his play later).

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/3/10/2042655/by-the-numbers-is-rajon-rondo-off-lately

Rajon Rondo is a streaky, inconsistent player, and it lies almost entirely in his own aggressiveness. If he played an entire year at the level he played the first two months of the season, you'd have a leg to stand on, but he never has.

  IMO you're comparing Rondo's play when he was healthy to later in the season when he was banged up (among other things, having hand issues) and somehow claiming that this proves he's an inconsistent player, or that his bad play was unrelated to health issues.

Well, look at the timestamp on the article. At the time, Doc, Rondo, Danny, and the Pope were all swearing up and down that Rondo was healthy, and not shaken up like a Bond martini from the Perkins trade. We learned later that he wasn't healthy, and was shaken up like a Bond martini.

  So I say people blame Rondo's poor play when he's injured on mental things, you use that article to show that he's streaky and inconsistent, I point out that he was injured at the time and you agree with me.

And of course he's never had an entire year when he played at the level he did the first two months of the season, his game improved significantly last year.

His game improved for what, less than a quarter of a season (19 total games played before his injury)? After which he played 48 pretty wildly inconsistent games over the course of 4 months?

While I won't dispute the near-MVP level of play Rondo showed for the first 20 games he played this season, I do think that the next 48 games he played showed that maybe that was a hot streak, rather than an indicator of a baseline that he's capable of right now.

  ...And one paragraph later, we're back to his being wildly inconsistent based on his play when he was injured.

  If Rondo was out of his mind, hitting 80% of his layups or 50% of his threes (or even his jumpers) I could see calling it a hot streak. But his play was based on things like vision, court awareness, running the offense, defending and passing ability. Those things aren't generally known as streaky skills IMO.

[indeedproceed]

Rondo's 4 attempts at the rim though are not the same as say...CP3 taking 4 attempts at the rim, because Rondo doesn't have range on his jumper. So, realistically speaking, his 4 attempts at the rim are the only attempts that really matter from Rondo, because he's a more effective passer the more he penetrates, and he's more likely to draw fouls and disrupt spacing.

  I'm not quite sure what this means, but I'd say Rondo was a pretty effective passer whether he was penetrating or not this year.

Rondo is a good passer on the perimeter, but he's a far better player when he's using his speed, agility, smarts, and long arms to get inside and do damage. This is known. He is not actively seeking out situations which result in contact. This is also known. Look at the part of my quote you deleted for proof.

  He generally avoids contact for various reasons. I don't disagree with this. I'll go back and read the older posts when I get a chance, but I'm still confused about what this part of the discussion is really about.

Its further alluding to the fact that Rondo does not go into the paint nearly enough to maximize his skillset.

Are you claiming that Deron has never passed the ball to someone else on a breakaway? Or, more likely, you know that he also does that every once in a while, the difference being you don't consider it to be stat padding.

I will claim that Deron Williams could count on his fingers the number of times during an NBA game he passed up an open lay-in or dunk to wait up for a trailing teammate to give them the bucket.

  So Williams is a selfish player who pads his scoring stats. I can see why people are so enthralled with him.

Ha, no. And I dont think anyone who read that honestly would think that's what I'm saying.

  What's fair for the goose is fair for the gander. Rondo's passing the ball on occasion isn't necessarily more selfish than Deron's rarely passing the ball.

Deron Williams' assist ration (% of time his poss results in an assist) is seventh highest among starting point guards. There are only six starting PG's in the NBA (and 10 other PG's total) who pass the ball more than WIlliams. This is off topic, but saying Deron WIliams rarely passes the ball is completely and irrefutably false.

  Calm down. We're talking about breakaways, and you've claimed that he passes up open layups to let people running behind him score roughly once or twice a year. That seems fairly rare.

haha, so what you were doing was making a kind of claim about 'selfishness' alluding to Rondo's stat padding on breakaways as analogus to someone taking an open layin? That's kind of silly.

  Again, though, what's the point of your "stat padding" argument? If he shot the ball instead of passing in in the situations you showed then he'd get two more points for every assist he lost and his fg% and PER and WS/48 and other stats would go up as well. His numbers would more closely match what you see from other point guards. That would cut into the arguments against him.

THat's kind of like saying 'If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points, and his field goal % would have risen, and he would've closely mirrored Tim Duncan's production.'

  If you don't see a difference between "If Rasheed Wallace would've just played in the paint more often, he would have scored more points" and "if Rondo had taken uncontested layups instead of letting other players take uncontested layups" then I don't know what to say.

My point was that what you're insinuating Rondo 'could' do more (ie be more aggressive on a nightly basis, and look for his own shot more) may not be something that is in his nature to do, much like it is not in Rasheed's nature to live on the block.

  My point was that whether Rondo took those uncontested layups or let Ray and Paul take them makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As to your point, I'd say that we've seen Rondo "do more" for somewhat extended periods of time and we won't know whether he'll do it on a regular basis unless he's on a team that calls for that to happen.

"Somewhat extended periods" is a suitably vague amount of time so that I can't really disagree. Let's make it more concrete; he's never done it for a full half of a season in his 4 years as a starter, or 5 years as a pro. DOesn't mean he never will (check out my various defenses of Kyle Lowry during the CB Draft for examples of how out on a limb I will go for someone), but it does mean we can't put him in the same conversation as people who have.

  No, he's never done it as a starter, when he's on a team with Ray and Paul and KG and he's a pass first pg. I'd say that he's generally stepped into a bigger role on the offense when one or more of them were injured, but clearly that hasn't happened for a 40 game stretch.

Well, I'm glad that's settled.

First of all, Rondo isn't terribly inconsistent. If you disagree, go back to the first month or two of the season when he was healthy and show me all the games he took the night off. Secondly, I think that when Rondo tries to play through injuries, a lot of the posters here are quick to attribute the dropoff to his game to mental issues.

I actually looked at this pretty in-depth earlier in the year (comparing Rondo's play earlier in the season to his play later).

http://www.celticsblog.com/2011/3/10/2042655/by-the-numbers-is-rajon-rondo-off-lately

Rajon Rondo is a streaky, inconsistent player, and it lies almost entirely in his own aggressiveness. If he played an entire year at the level he played the first two months of the season, you'd have a leg to stand on, but he never has.

  IMO you're comparing Rondo's play when he was healthy to later in the season when he was banged up (among other things, having hand issues) and somehow claiming that this proves he's an inconsistent player, or that his bad play was unrelated to health issues.

Well, look at the timestamp on the article. At the time, Doc, Rondo, Danny, and the Pope were all swearing up and down that Rondo was healthy, and not shaken up like a Bond martini from the Perkins trade. We learned later that he wasn't healthy, and was shaken up like a Bond martini.

  So I say people blame Rondo's poor play when he's injured on mental things, you use that article to show that he's streaky and inconsistent, I point out that he was injured at the time and you agree with me.

That was more to defend the article, than to agree with you. I still think Rondo is inconsistent, but that's based on more than just this season...which brings us to...

And of course he's never had an entire year when he played at the level he did the first two months of the season, his game improved significantly last year.

His game improved for what, less than a quarter of a season (19 total games played before his injury)? After which he played 48 pretty wildly inconsistent games over the course of 4 months?

While I won't dispute the near-MVP level of play Rondo showed for the first 20 games he played this season, I do think that the next 48 games he played showed that maybe that was a hot streak, rather than an indicator of a baseline that he's capable of right now.

  ...And one paragraph later, we're back to his being wildly inconsistent based on his play when he was injured.

  If Rondo was out of his mind, hitting 80% of his layups or 50% of his threes (or even his jumpers) I could see calling it a hot streak. But his play was based on things like vision, court awareness, running the offense, defending and passing ability. Those things aren't generally known as streaky skills IMO.

Well, his shooting was down across the board, but to address your larger point, and the point I was trying to convey there, Rondo played 50 games after he returned from injury. That is not an isolated sample. And, while his hand was bothering him, everyone roundly said as the seaosn wore on that Rondo was playing below potential, including Rondo.

Then, after the season Rondo basically told everything that he was wicked bummed about Perkins, and he didn't really enjoy playing basketball as much.

He was brilliant in the beginning of the season, but he finished the season like an above average point guard. That's not really a big deal.

Because he's not a great shooter, he'll need to get to the cup a lot more frequently than your average starter to really make a difference on a large scale.

He's never shown he ability, or the desire, or whatever 'it' might be to really be aggressive enough to do that on a regular basis.

Until he does, he doesn't belong in conversations about who the best point guard in basketball is.

[Celtics18]

I guess nobody else remembers the plantar fasciitis that Rondo was battling through all season long.  

[BballTim]

I guess nobody else remembers the plantar fasciitis that Rondo was battling through all season long.  

  It's just another sign of his inconsistency and mental instability.

[Celtics18]

I guess nobody else remembers the plantar fasciitis that Rondo was battling through all season long.  

  It's just another sign of his inconsistency and mental instability.

His brain is located in the soles of his feet.

[BballTim]

And of course he's never had an entire year when he played at the level he did the first two months of the season, his game improved significantly last year.

His game improved for what, less than a quarter of a season (19 total games played before his injury)? After which he played 48 pretty wildly inconsistent games over the course of 4 months?

While I won't dispute the near-MVP level of play Rondo showed for the first 20 games he played this season, I do think that the next 48 games he played showed that maybe that was a hot streak, rather than an indicator of a baseline that he's capable of right now.

  ...And one paragraph later, we're back to his being wildly inconsistent based on his play when he was injured.

  If Rondo was out of his mind, hitting 80% of his layups or 50% of his threes (or even his jumpers) I could see calling it a hot streak. But his play was based on things like vision, court awareness, running the offense, defending and passing ability. Those things aren't generally known as streaky skills IMO.

Well, his shooting was down across the board, but to address your larger point, and the point I was trying to convey there, Rondo played 50 games after he returned from injury. That is not an isolated sample. And, while his hand was bothering him, everyone roundly said as the seaosn wore on that Rondo was playing below potential, including Rondo.

  He played 50 games after returning from injury, but how many of those games was he healthy? Enough games to go beyond an isolated sample?

  When Perk came back from plantar fascitis people were calling him slow and lazy, a poor defender who had reached his ceiling as a player at 4 points and 5 rebounds a game. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Then, after the season Rondo basically told everything that he was wicked bummed about Perkins, and he didn't really enjoy playing basketball as much.

  With all the injury issues I daresay it was less fun than usual.

Because he's not a great shooter, he'll need to get to the cup a lot more frequently than your average starter to really make a difference on a large scale.

  Completely disagree, in fact we frequently saw him dominate games this year without getting to the rim a lot.

He's never shown he ability, or the desire, or whatever 'it' might be to really be aggressive enough to do that on a regular basis.

  Disagree as well, although I would say he puts much of a premium on the regular season as many players. But I'd say the same thing about the big three as well.

Until he does, he doesn't belong in conversations about who the best point guard in basketball is.

  And yet there he always is, like it or not.

[Celtics18]

One of the big concerns people seem to have about Rondo is his consistency. 

I'm curious what criteria folks are using to come to the conclusion that Rondo is more inconsistent than other top players. 

No NBA player plays at the top of his game for every game of an NBA regular season plus the playoffs.  Do we expect Rondo to never have subpar games?

[Vermont Green]

Consistency, yeah right, a consistently bad shooter that is for sure.

In terms of overall play though, I don't think consistency is something I am worried about although based on the way he plays and his body type, he is likely to be battling injuries perhaps more often than the average NBA player.  He is tough though and will fight through it better than most.

[vasilli34]

For all of you saying how Rondo is behind Deron Williams only because of scoring, your all idiots. The PG is supposed to make the offense work, not be the offense solely. D-Will is a great scorer i understand, but Rondo is the better/smarter pointguard in that situation. PLUS, Rondo racks up more rebounds and plays WAY better defense than D-Will ever will/can and, in the long run, isn't that better than having a scoring pointguard? And look at all the great championship teams out there with an amazing scoring pointguard compared to the true pointguard led teams.. More of those second type of teams, right?

My whole point is that D.WILLIAMS IS A TRUE POINTGUARD.

You decided that Rondo is the smarter and better pointguard there's no real way to support your claim. Williams has been averaging 9+ assists since his sophmore year minus the help of 3 Hall of famers. He gets slapped with the scoring label as a knock so that people can say "he's good but Rondos better cuz he's a true point". If your going to call him a scoring point might as well call Paul one two he averages almost identical numbers career wise, more points actually. Btw, other than 6'9 freak pointguard magic and Cousy who played on the Russel lead Celtics what pass first pointguards have lead their teams to championships? Scoring pointguard or pointguards capable of leading their teams are much easier to list.

Your right, Williams never played with 3 other HOF like rondo does.. but that doesnt make it easier to get assists. all three of them are past their primes anyways so it's not like its that much of an unfair advantage. fact is, he still gets the dimes. and if it wasnt for his injury/trade of perkins, rondo wouldve easily been a 12+ assist guy this year. he just slowed a bit. and williams is a scoring pointguard who was lucky enough to have Boozer, AK47, and the three point machine of kyle korver on his team. all of them are good spot up shooters that definitely help the assist column. OH! and as for the pass first PGs.. other than magic and couz...
1)Stockton 2) Jason Kidd 3) Isaiah Thomas 4) Chauncey Billups 5)Tony Parker 6) even Steve Nash could be put here even though he was unfairly cheated out of his Finals appearance from the Spurs..

[BballTim]

Consistency, yeah right, a consistently bad shooter that is for sure.

In terms of overall play though, I don't think consistency is something I am worried about although based on the way he plays and his body type, he is likely to be battling injuries perhaps more often than the average NBA player.  He is tough though and will fight through it better than most.

  I agree with this but I think he'll get a little stronger and smarter about throwing his body around as he matures. I think that a big reason he had health issues this year was having a short offseason (playing in the 2010 finals) followed by spending much of his offseason with team usa.

[BASS_THUMPER]

i wanna believe the hype...

[indeedproceed]

I guess with rondo for me It comes down to this; we got super lucky to draft him, he's devoted to the team, and he's our guy. But, I don't think he's as good as Chris Paul or deron williams