Rondo= Best PG today

[indeedproceed]

Would the Celtics have a worse record with D Rose, Deron Williams or Chris Paul at the point? Would the bulls, nets or hornets have better records with Rondo running the point?

I don't think there is any question that the answer to the second question is 'no'. The first quEstion is more debatable, but I do think the Cs would be hands down better off with Williams or Paul running the point. DRose I'm less sure of.

[indeedproceed]

Actually, Derrick Rose is an interesting guy to think of running the point for the Cs. He's got the right kind of mindset, and he's unquestionably talented enough. Plus, Ray Allen, Pp, and kg are all gifted passers for thier respective positions. His defense should be adequate in the least. Interesting thought.

[ManUp]

For all of you saying how Rondo is behind Deron Williams only because of scoring, your all idiots. The PG is supposed to make the offense work, not be the offense solely. D-Will is a great scorer i understand, but Rondo is the better/smarter pointguard in that situation. PLUS, Rondo racks up more rebounds and plays WAY better defense than D-Will ever will/can and, in the long run, isn't that better than having a scoring pointguard? And look at all the great championship teams out there with an amazing scoring pointguard compared to the true pointguard led teams.. More of those second type of teams, right?

My whole point is that D.WILLIAMS IS A TRUE POINTGUARD.

You decided that Rondo is the smarter and better pointguard there's no real way to support your claim. Williams has been averaging 9+ assists since his sophmore year minus the help of 3 Hall of famers. He gets slapped with the scoring label as a knock so that people can say "he's good but Rondos better cuz he's a true point". If your going to call him a scoring point might as well call Paul one two he averages almost identical numbers career wise, more points actually. Btw, other than 6'9 freak pointguard magic and Cousy who played on the Russel lead Celtics what pass first pointguards have lead their teams to championships? Scoring pointguard or pointguards capable of leading their teams are much easier to list.

[bfrombleacher]

Would the bulls, nets or hornets have better records with Rondo running the point?

The Bulls might be. Their team would probably have similar scoring deficiencies that the Celtics have now but Rondo brings everything but scoring to the table.

[cman88]

if its so easy to get assists with 3 HOF'ers then Delonte wouldve been dishing out dimes when he started in the playoffs...nate robinson too..but..they didnt and the offense floundered.

fact is, what Rondo can do in passing isnt something to scoff about and its rediculous for some of you to down play it to live out your dreams of other point guards

most Pg's who lead their teams to the finals were surrounded by other good scorers as well...when you look at Iverson or Jason kidd, nash...neither won it all(in kidds case, when he did he was mererly a peice)

D.will, CP3 cant lead their team to the finals alone either. and they are being paid MUCH more than Rondo is at 10million$..to build a championship team aroudn them, you would have to add other allstars who can score..and by that time you could have a team where Rondo would be efficient anyways...and for about 6-7million less.

[FatjohnReturns]

Actually it;s CP3 in my opinion but now that I have you here I'll explain my theory on the best PG's.

Best PG: CP3, Rondo, Nash

Best scoring, takes a ton of shots, might get assists, and happens to play at the 1 spot: Rose, DWill, Westbrook (DWill is a stretch but for the argument, he fits more here)


My point is that the PG is more a floor general, ball thief, assist machine, who really gives you a bonus in points (Jason Kidd is a perfect example here.) I believe Rondo is the best or second best PG in the league. While I would probably take a Rose or Westbrook over Rondo in fantasy or a pickup game, if I had a good team already, I'd look for a real PG who can make the rest of the team better.

Not a knock on the Rose's or Westbrook's, they are who they are because of the team they are on. Those two guys wouldn't work in a Lakers or Celtics team (kinda why the Lakers would like a CP3 over a DWill or a Westbrook)

You lost me here. Rose or Westbrook wouldnt work as a Celtic?
If we had Rose instead of Rondo we would have beaten Miami last year. Why? Becuase Rose can score the basketball.  

Rose excells at the three things a pg needs to do pass, shoot and drive the ball to the rim and finish. Rose would have dominated Bibby. Bibby and Chalmers neutralized Rondo by shutting down the drive by backing off and packing the lane.

Rondo couldnt make them pay with the 12 foot jumpshot
Rondo is a terrible shooter in the offense sets. a terrible 3pt shooter and the worst free throw% for a starting point in the entire league. When Rondo is on offesne its like playing 4v5

While Rondo is a above average passer. He dominates the ball on every possession and has the luxery of passing to three who guys who will be in the Hall of Fame.

Before the big three retire Rondo will be traded.

[FatjohnReturns]

oh yea an Bball Tim I would have responded to your full comments in that other post if my keyboard didnt die. I wont go back to that conversation now though.

Is shooting a necessary skill for a point guard?
I mean like not being the absolute worsrt ft% starting point guard in the entire league. Or shooting better than 24% for the season from the 3pt line?

[ManUp]

Its funny how Williams ability to score has been used as a knock against him on these boards in order to keep Rondo higher on the list. He's a 20/10 point guard with no assist padding while being the primary scoring option on his team. Rondo is a 10/14 player who tends to pad his assist numbers when the situation allows while being the fourth scoring option on his team. Deron creates scoring opportunity for his team while capitalizing on his own. Imo, that's how point guards are supposed to operate.

  It's funny how Rondo's unselfishness and passing ability have been used as a knock against him on these boards in order to keep him lower on the list. The whole assist padding idea is nonsense, and it's fairly ironic that a group of people who feel you can't be a top point guard without scoring accuse him of padding his stats by *not* scoring.

Nonsense. Why? When your passing up open layups for jumpshots or on open fast breaks slowing down for guys to catch up to you to and finish for you in the NBA what else is there to call it? I'm a Rondo fan, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say he's better than Paul or Williams the same way I'm not going to claim Pierce is better than LeBron or Ray is better than Wade.

[BballTim]

Its funny how Williams ability to score has been used as a knock against him on these boards in order to keep Rondo higher on the list. He's a 20/10 point guard with no assist padding while being the primary scoring option on his team. Rondo is a 10/14 player who tends to pad his assist numbers when the situation allows while being the fourth scoring option on his team. Deron creates scoring opportunity for his team while capitalizing on his own. Imo, that's how point guards are supposed to operate.

  It's funny how Rondo's unselfishness and passing ability have been used as a knock against him on these boards in order to keep him lower on the list. The whole assist padding idea is nonsense, and it's fairly ironic that a group of people who feel you can't be a top point guard without scoring accuse him of padding his stats by *not* scoring.

Nonsense. Why? When your passing up open layups for jumpshots or on open fast breaks slowing down for guys to catch up to you to and finish for you in the NBA what else is there to call it? I'm a Rondo fan, but I'm not going to lie to myself and say he's better than Paul or Williams the same way I'm not going to claim Pierce is better than LeBron or Ray is better than Wade.

  So you're claiming that Rondo's the only point guard that you've ever seen pass the ball to teammates on a fast break? The only one who, as the announcers like to say, rewards his teammates for running up court with him?

  Before Rondo's late season slump he was probably averaging 11/12. Have him make 2 more layups a game instead of getting 2 more assists and it goes t 15/10. Which is basically what CP3 put up, btw. But it's the same number of points for the Celts, so really you're criticizing his style and not his effect on the game, which would be the same 4 points in either case.

[Bankshot]

CP3 and Deron Williams and Rose are the top 3. Assign order at your own preference.

Rondo and Westbrook are the second tier. Other less certain or proven quantities occupy the third tier (Lowry, Nash, etc...), but I think Lowry can make the jump to Rondo and Westbrook's level next year.

I agree with this.  Hate to say this, but I think Westbrook will pass Rondo as well, unless Rondo gets a consistent jump shot and improve free throw shooting.

[BballTim]

Would the Celtics have a worse record with D Rose, Deron Williams or Chris Paul at the point? Would the bulls, nets or hornets have better records with Rondo running the point?

I don't think there is any question that the answer to the second question is 'no'.

  Switch Rondo for those point guards and you have tradeoffs in terms of skillsets as well as changes in the role in the offense Rondo plays. Rose is a better scorer than Rondo, but not as good a passer and doesn't run the offense as well. Would better looks for Deng/Boozer/Noah and fewer shots from Rose doom that team? Possibly, possibly not.

  Paul's a much better outside shooter than Rondo, that's clear to everyone. But Rondo gets shots and assists at the rim roughly twice as often as Paul, and NO was 29th in the league in shots at the rim last year. How much does that figure into your thinking, or doesn't it at all? I'd say the team would be somewhat better with a better scoring pg, same with NJ. But if the rest of the Celts team is as bad as the Nets supporting cast, does it make a ton of difference who the pg is?

  We've all seen that Rondo's capable of scoring more than he normally does during the regular season. You'd probably get a better version of the Rondo that was putting up 17-18 a game with 10 or so assists in 09-10 when KG and PP were injured for a while. You also get his defense and rebounding.

[BballTim]

Actually it;s CP3 in my opinion but now that I have you here I'll explain my theory on the best PG's.

Best PG: CP3, Rondo, Nash

Best scoring, takes a ton of shots, might get assists, and happens to play at the 1 spot: Rose, DWill, Westbrook (DWill is a stretch but for the argument, he fits more here)


My point is that the PG is more a floor general, ball thief, assist machine, who really gives you a bonus in points (Jason Kidd is a perfect example here.) I believe Rondo is the best or second best PG in the league. While I would probably take a Rose or Westbrook over Rondo in fantasy or a pickup game, if I had a good team already, I'd look for a real PG who can make the rest of the team better.

Not a knock on the Rose's or Westbrook's, they are who they are because of the team they are on. Those two guys wouldn't work in a Lakers or Celtics team (kinda why the Lakers would like a CP3 over a DWill or a Westbrook)

You lost me here. Rose or Westbrook wouldnt work as a Celtic?
If we had Rose instead of Rondo we would have beaten Miami last year. Why? Becuase Rose can score the basketball.  

Rose excells at the three things a pg needs to do pass, shoot and drive the ball to the rim and finish. Rose would have dominated Bibby. Bibby and Chalmers neutralized Rondo by shutting down the drive by backing off and packing the lane.

  I guess we all now know why the Bulls dispatched the Heat so easily in the playoffs, it was Rose's scoring. Good to know.

  And Rose doesn't excel in passing, he also doesn't excel at running an offense well, something other people might feel a pg needs to do aside from your three things.

[CelticsFanNC]

  I love Rondo.  He's my favorite current Celtic to watch play.  I defend him all the time.  The team obviously plays a whole lot better when he is on the floor playing well.  He might even be in the conversation as the best PG today.....if he'd ever be consistent.

  I don't care about the perimeter shot so much.  There have been other great PG's who couldn't shoot very well from deep or even mid-range that finished up their careers in the HOF.  The poor FT shooting is head scratching.  His lack of consistency though is what really holds him back from being the best.  When he is playing his best basketball he is as good an all-around PG as there is in the NBA today.  He can dominate games and even entire playoff series.  How many guys in the NBA can say they were the best player for an entire playoff series that included LeBron James, Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen?  Rondo can.  He can be the best player on the floor on any given night no matter who else happens to be playing.  He can dominate a game without looking to score which is a very rare and highly desirable trait.  He can be the most disruptive force in the NBA on the defensive end when he wants to be.  When is is playing well and being the aggressor he's pretty amazing.

The problem with Rondo is that he doesn't always play that way unfortunately.   I think that is what is so frustrating about him and why he is so polarizing among Celtic fans.  We've seen how dominant he can be but he doesn't bring it every night.

[BballTim]

oh yea an Bball Tim I would have responded to your full comments in that other post if my keyboard didnt die. I wont go back to that conversation now though.

Is shooting a necessary skill for a point guard?
I mean like not being the absolute worsrt ft% starting point guard in the entire league. Or shooting better than 24% for the season from the 3pt line?

  Sorry to hear about your keyboard.

  If you're looking foe necessary skills for a point guard, I'd start with running an offense and passing. But really a player and their effect on a game is the sum total of all of their skills, not just how well they do one thing. You seem to be able to see what Rondo does poorly but you don't seem to notice what he does well, or possibly think those things don't affect a game.

  We've all seen Rondo dominate games, we've seen him dominate in the playoffs, we saw him play as well as any pg was when he was healthy last year. Like it or not, he's in most of the conversations you hear about the best point guards in the league. So, based on all of those things, you'd have to think that those skills (ft and 3pt shooting) aren't absolutely necessary for a pg to excel, and you see exhibit A on a regular basis. It might be essential for *most* point guards to have that skill, but not *every* point guard.

  The problem is, once you convince yourself that you can't be a good pg without those skills, Rondo *has* to be a mediocre (or worse) pg in your eyes. His success has to be the product of the players around him, it has to be true that any decent pg would do as well or better than him. Your preconceived notions of what a pg has to be affects your view of his play and his impact on the game. Kind of like the way you insist the team's better with Delonte, whether it's true (or ever been true) or not.

[Donoghus]

Would the bulls, nets or hornets have better records with Rondo running the point?

The Bulls might be. Their team would probably have similar scoring deficiencies that the Celtics have now but Rondo brings everything but scoring to the table.

Bulls would be worse.  Take Rose off that time and add in an offensively deficient Rondo to that bunch and they'll have even more trouble scoring.   They had stretches last season where it was painful to watch them on the offensive end.  Add Rondo and subtract Rose, and it'd be worse.