Jeff Green: The sink or swim signing

[Cman]

Jeff Green has alot of talent, and if given a training camp and more time to understand Doc's system defensively/offensively I think he can thrive here in a 6th man sort of role

I agree with this.
The problem is, there wont be much if any of a training camp this year, so it will be hard to get him up to speed. We'll see (bc I suspect that he'll sign the QO).

[chambers]

There are two things that excite me with the mean machine jeff green.
1) his size/speed and rapidly improving defensive prowess.
2) his post moves.

to me his biggest problem is his terrible footwork which i've talked about before.

I would trade him for another 3/4 that can guard lebron/melo in the playoffs but if we have to stick with him then I'm happy.

[Roy H.]

There are two things that excite me with the mean machine jeff green.
1) his size/speed and rapidly improving defensive prowess.

I hope it improves.  Last year with the Celts, for instance, he ranked 298th in isolation defense, in terms of points allowed per possession. 

In iso situations, he allowed opponents to score about 30% more points than they scored on Paul Pierce, and to shoot approximately 10 percentage points higher.  Similarly, Green was much worse than Ray in such situations.

Perhaps it's a small sample size, but Green's defense wasn't good, and at times (like when isolated) it was terrible.

[Chris]

There are two things that excite me with the mean machine jeff green.
1) his size/speed and rapidly improving defensive prowess.

I hope it improves.  Last year with the Celts, for instance, he ranked 298th in isolation defense, in terms of points allowed per possession.  

In iso situations, he allowed opponents to score about 30% more points than they scored on Paul Pierce, and to shoot approximately 10 percentage points higher.  Similarly, Green was much worse than Ray in such situations.

Perhaps it's a small sample size, but Green's defense wasn't good, and at times (like when isolated) it was terrible.

No idea what the stats showed for his defense in the playoffs (and I am sure you know that I really don't care what they show, because I think defense stats, especially are decieving at best), but I could see a significant change in his defense play in the playoffs compared to when he first got here.

I think he was just starting to feel comfortable enough in the system by that point not to overthink things, and he was very solid overall, and had some spectacular defensive sequences, particularly in isolation against guys like James and Carmelo.

He still has plenty of room to grow on that side of the ball, but I am confident that the more comfortable he gets in a defensive system, and the more regularly he gets to play in his more natural SF position, the stronger he will get on that side of the ball.  

I am much more concerned with his offense however, because he really is a tweener on that side of the ball, and I think that will limit his ceiling going forward. 

[Roy H.]

There are two things that excite me with the mean machine jeff green.
1) his size/speed and rapidly improving defensive prowess.

I hope it improves.  Last year with the Celts, for instance, he ranked 298th in isolation defense, in terms of points allowed per possession. 

In iso situations, he allowed opponents to score about 30% more points than they scored on Paul Pierce, and to shoot approximately 10 percentage points higher.  Similarly, Green was much worse than Ray in such situations.

Perhaps it's a small sample size, but Green's defense wasn't good, and at times (like when isolated) it was terrible.

No idea what the stats showed for his defense in the playoffs (and I am sure you know that I really don't care what they show, because I think defense stats, especially are decieving at best), but I could see a significant change in his defense play in the playoffs compared to when he first got here.

I think he was just starting to feel comfortable enough in the system by that point not to overthink things, and he was very solid overall, and had some spectacular defensive sequences, particularly in isolation against guys like James and Carmelo.

He still has plenty of room to grow on that side of the ball, but I am confident that the more comfortable he gets in a defensive system, and the more regularly he gets to play in his more natural SF position, the stronger he will get on that side of the ball. 

Maybe.  However, he wasn't a good defender in OKC, and he wasn't a good defender in the regular season in Boston.  I don't know how to access Synergy Sports' defensive playoff stats -- I'm sure they're floating around somewhere -- but I don't remember being particularly enamored by Green's playoff D, either.  He had some decent moments against Carmelo, but he got burned a lot, too.

I hope he improves.  He seems to have the size and athleticism to be a good defender, but I'm not sure he has the right instincts.  (I feel the same about his rebounding and passing, which I know you also disagree on.)

[Chris]

There are two things that excite me with the mean machine jeff green.
1) his size/speed and rapidly improving defensive prowess.

I hope it improves.  Last year with the Celts, for instance, he ranked 298th in isolation defense, in terms of points allowed per possession. 

In iso situations, he allowed opponents to score about 30% more points than they scored on Paul Pierce, and to shoot approximately 10 percentage points higher.  Similarly, Green was much worse than Ray in such situations.

Perhaps it's a small sample size, but Green's defense wasn't good, and at times (like when isolated) it was terrible.

No idea what the stats showed for his defense in the playoffs (and I am sure you know that I really don't care what they show, because I think defense stats, especially are decieving at best), but I could see a significant change in his defense play in the playoffs compared to when he first got here.

I think he was just starting to feel comfortable enough in the system by that point not to overthink things, and he was very solid overall, and had some spectacular defensive sequences, particularly in isolation against guys like James and Carmelo.

He still has plenty of room to grow on that side of the ball, but I am confident that the more comfortable he gets in a defensive system, and the more regularly he gets to play in his more natural SF position, the stronger he will get on that side of the ball. 

Maybe.  However, he wasn't a good defender in OKC, and he wasn't a good defender in the regular season in Boston.  I don't know how to access Synergy Sports' defensive playoff stats -- I'm sure they're floating around somewhere -- but I don't remember being particularly enamored by Green's playoff D, either.  He had some decent moments against Carmelo, but he got burned a lot, too.

I hope he improves.  He seems to have the size and athleticism to be a good defender, but I'm not sure he has the right instincts.  (I feel the same about his rebounding and passing, which I know you also disagree on.)

By no means do I think he is, or will ever be a lockdown defender.  But I absolutely saw improvement.  I also think it is tough to guage his defense from OKC, and his first month or two in Boston, since he played so much PF.

I strongly believe that he is not a PF, and should never play that position unless it is to speed up the pace of a particular game, or to match with another team going small. 

In OKC he almost always played out of position, and he was forced to do the same thing early in his Boston days, because they had such a shortage up front with all of the injuries. 

Although, for the purpose of this argument, its a moot point anyways.  I still think he is a MLE or slightly over type player at best, so if they can't get him for the QO (which I think he will sign), then that should be their absolute limit...and even at the MLE, I still might let him walk, since I have not sure he brings the attitude you are looking for in a potential core member of the team going forward.

[nickagneta]

I agree with Chris that he isn't a PF and should be used at that position as little amount of time as possible.

But I also agree with Roy. I think he's not a good defender and I didn't remember extended bouts of good defense in the playoffs. Oh he had a good defensive possession here and there, but I don't remember him playing consistently better for minutes on end.

Surprisingly, the guy I thought did start showing that he got it defensively and played consistently much better in the playoffs was Nenad Krstic. Sadly, he won't be returning next year.

[cman88]

He certainly has the tools to be a good defender. I think docs system can turn anyone into already a decent defender.look at ray allen, nate or von wafer..

[ACF]

[xmuscularghandix]

He needs to be more aggressive, every bad shot that BBD took last year should have been taken by Jeff Green.

This kid could isolate from anywhere on the floor and either have a size or speed advantage. Let him isolate and try to take his man.

I don't know if anybody else would agree but for some reason Jeff Green reminds me of a 6'8" Joe Johnson; the isolation game, the one dribble pull up, the upfake and drive...

[Celtics18]

 [

Swim? I agree . . . I think.  

[Edgar]

Well Jeff Green is better than BBD and I am happy we are not talking about the second
because that means most of us want the second out and the other in if cheap.

And we all love Delonte

[Arok325]

This certainly was not a sink or swim type move. Everybody assumes that this is the move that is going to define the next 4-5 years of this team. I say no!

Either way you cut it this was a good move. Perkins was a average NBA center at best and we traded for the more talented player. We win that trade my friends. The Thunder can have Perkins for all I care. He was overrated in this town. He was not exceptionally good at anything besides manning up on large centers. He fouled too often and got technicals like it was his job. I'm glad he's gone personally. He didn't do anything for me.

Green is probably not going to be an excellent player but he will be serviceable. A character guy who can play multiple positions. He might not be a Paul Pierce but you're not going to trade a Perkins and get an all-star type player. It just isn't happening.

[tenn_smoothie]

Either way you cut it this was a good move. Perkins was a average NBA center at best and we traded for the more talented player. We win that trade my friends. The Thunder can have Perkins for all I care. He was overrated in this town.

yeah - that's why we won an NBA title and then got within a 7th game of a second one with Perkins and the team dropped off significantly once Perkins was gone.

when will people get the message - it wasn't about Perk's stats !!!!!

[nickagneta]

Green is probably not going to be an excellent player but he will be serviceable. A character guy who can play multiple positions.

Here's the thing though, if he's only ever going to be serviceable then he's not going to be worth the money he will be commanding.

And as I said in the OP, can the Celtics really afford to give him the money he will be asking for on the open market and then find out he's not worth the money. I don't think that's a mistake they can allow to happen.

I would rather them make the mistake of not paying him and have him turning out to be something somewhere else, which, given the fact he is 25 has played for four years and has seen important stats like 3PT%, rebounds per game, assists per game, points per game, minutes per game, PER and rebound percentage all fall for three straight years, may guess is he isn't going to suddenly break out and become something more than what he is. I just don't see it.

So I say, give him the qualifying offer, if he take it great if he wants that money($5.9) or more over any length of contract, let him go or sign and trade him if you can.