U. of Miami = Toast

[Tai]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

Which is why I don't think the NCAA will dish out the "death peanlty" again. It obliterated SMU football and the ramifications were felt throughout the old Southwest Conference.

SMU was a crap program, cheated and became good, and was a crap program after it was forced to stop cheating.  The reality is, SMU was only ever good because of the booster gifts.  One could argue that Miami is exactly the same as SMU in that regard.

That's horrible grounds to determine whether a team deserves ANY punishment or not, let alone the death penalty. That definitely strays away from the spirit of the law.

[Moranis]

just to add some perspective on what the worst NCAA football penalty has been to date:

"...Southern Mehodist University  receiving the “death penalty.” SMU’s 1987 season was cancelled and it was allowed no home games in 1988 (the season was subsequently also cancelled). The NCAA committee declared that the penalty was given in order to “eliminate a program that was built on a legacy of wrongdoing, deceit and rule violations."

The punishment effectively destroyed SMU’s football program, which has gone 66-169-3 after thel team was brought back in 1989. The death penalty didn’t just severely damage football at SMU, it was also one of the major factors that led to the dissolution of the Southwest Conference in 1996."
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/infamous_ncaa_sanctions/smu_football.html

it took around a decade of misbehavior to the NCAA to do this to SMU. but since then, the NCAA has tightened up its rules and doled out more penalties than in the past.

Which is why I don't think the NCAA will dish out the "death peanlty" again. It obliterated SMU football and the ramifications were felt throughout the old Southwest Conference.

SMU was a crap program, cheated and became good, and was a crap program after it was forced to stop cheating.  The reality is, SMU was only ever good because of the booster gifts.  One could argue that Miami is exactly the same as SMU in that regard.

That's horrible grounds to determine whether a team deserves ANY punishment or not, let alone the death penalty. That definitely strays away from the spirit of the law.

I didn't say that was grounds, I was merely saying that perhaps Miami football needs to close for a year.  It has been nothing but a string of violations since the late 80's and has been under many different coaches with varying degrees of success.  In 2002 it was just 3 years removed from its last set of violations.  This was a formal booster of the program who went to many sponsored functions and even led the team out onto the field two separate times.  He hob nobbed with the President of the university, athletic director, coaches, etc.  The actual violations are much much worse then SMU, much worse then USC, North Carolina, Ohio State, Oregon, etc.  The death penalty is absolutely warranted given the totality of the circumstances. 

[CoachBo]

This one's simple: Miami is the most egregious violator in the NCAA's history, and the Shapiro case is the worst example of violations in the NCAA's history.

Carpet-bomb them. Shut them down for three years.

[Kwhit10]

If this is what Miami did to get second tier players and be a mediocre team in Florida, just imagine what FSU and FU were offering to get the better players.

[Rondo2287]

we know what FSU was doing, they had one of the more dispicable academic scandals I have ever heard of where they were paying doctors to diagnose their athletes with learning disabilities so that the kids could keep their grades up.  That and letting students in that legitimately could not read.

[rickyfan3.0...]

NCAA is first and foremost a business... NO WAY Miami gets the death penalty. NO WAY!

GO CANES!

[Donoghus]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

[Rondo2287]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

I would say BC goes back to the big east.  There are reports out there that the big east would take them back with open arms if they wanted to go.

[Eja117]

This one's simple: Miami is the most egregious violator in the NCAA's history, and the Shapiro case is the worst example of violations in the NCAA's history.

Carpet-bomb them. Shut them down for three years.

I have to agree. This goes well beyond the scope of just a little cheating. This is way beyond lack of institutional control. This is a school purposely and consciously choosing to totally disregard anything similar to a rule for the life of its program. This is MIami saying "Hey. NCAA. Go f yourselves and the horse you rode in on".

The NCAA punishment has to match the scope and time frame of what Miami did. They don't have to give it the death penalty. The NCAA needs to say "Well. You allowed this to go on for a decade fully knowledgeable of the situation. So you lose football for a decade"

If they did this stuff like this would stop in its tracks immediately. Players and boosters would still break rules left and right, but schools virtually encouraging it would stop

[Eja117]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

College football is bigger than the ACC.  Nobody on the planet with say "Oh my God! The ACC! What ever will they doooooo! Call Scooby Doo!"    The ACC hasn't won a championship in a decade. They're a step above the MAC in importance.

[Employee8]

It really is too bad that the athletic program is hurting the University.  It really has a fine marine engineering program and some of the top notch engineers are out there (Some research on ballast water treatment used as a reference for the Coast Guard is from there) so it's tough to see the athletes besmirch the academic program.

But like some say here, it's an absolute beautiful town and is the stuff that poor people dream of when they make it big.  Yachts, beautiful women, great weather...so easy to get caught up in all those things.  If I were the University, I'd employ a team of maybe 5 people that constantly monitors the players activities and maybe do some stealth missions when they go out to make sure they stay in line.  It's crazy in South Beach.  Crazy.

[Donoghus]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

College football is bigger than the ACC.  Nobody on the planet with say "Oh my God! The ACC! What ever will they doooooo! Call Scooby Doo!"    The ACC hasn't won a championship in a decade. They're a step above the MAC in importance.

Well eja, your ignorance certainly shows.  There are people who actually have a vested interest in ACC football.  I don't think I was putting them on a pedestal here or anything. Saying that they were above college football. (But thanks for putting words in my mouth).

Simply throwing out a potential scenario.  If you do yourself a little history lesson, you'll find that the SMU death penalty help exacerbate the fall of the Southwest Conference. I was asking could it happen again.

Rather than take a shot at it and be dismissive, either consider it or ignore it.

[Eja117]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

College football is bigger than the ACC.  Nobody on the planet with say "Oh my God! The ACC! What ever will they doooooo! Call Scooby Doo!"    The ACC hasn't won a championship in a decade. They're a step above the MAC in importance.

Well eja, your ignorance certainly shows.  There are people who actually have a vested interest in ACC football.  I don't think I was putting them on a pedestal here or anything. Saying that they were above college football. (But thanks for putting words in my mouth).

Simply throwing out a potential scenario.  If you do yourself a little history lesson, you'll find that the SMU death penalty help exacerbate the fall of the Southwest Conference. I was asking could it happen again.

Rather than take a shot at it and be dismissive, either consider it or ignore it.

And the fall of the Southwest Conference mattered how?

I guess it mattered to the commissioner of the Southwest Conference, but it didn't matter to football fans, which I'm kinda starting to think you aren't.

All these schools will still play football. You were the one that came up with multiple multiple realignment scenarios, and specifically stated it would kill the Big 12, as though it's just a matter of fact, and I don't recall that being a problem for anyone.

Why is the ACC any different?  Oh. I know. Because eja made a common sense comment about it. duh.

Nobody said "Dons said the ACC is bigger than college football. "  I said that it's not.

And yes. People have a vested interest in the ACC. The ACC commissioner and people that made tv contracts. But not college football fans. And you didn't say that. I did.  

[Rondo2287]

Didnt Florida State just pull in the best recruiting class in the country?  It probably matters for them and all of their recruits.  The ACC looked to be turning things around with the rise of FSU, Miami, UNC over the past 2 seasons. 

Now not so much.

[Moranis]

What about this potential scenario?

SEC expands to 16 teams taking Texas A&M, Missouri, Florida St, and Clemson.  (One report had thrown this out there).

Then Miami is given the death penalty by the NCAA.

Where does this leave ACC football?  9 teams and severely beaten.  Does it survive? Or do the remaining teams go out and try to save their skin by whatever means necessary?

Far-fetched but figured I'd throw it out there.

College football is bigger than the ACC.  Nobody on the planet with say "Oh my God! The ACC! What ever will they doooooo! Call Scooby Doo!"    The ACC hasn't won a championship in a decade. They're a step above the MAC in importance.

Well eja, your ignorance certainly shows.  There are people who actually have a vested interest in ACC football.  I don't think I was putting them on a pedestal here or anything. Saying that they were above college football. (But thanks for putting words in my mouth).

Simply throwing out a potential scenario.  If you do yourself a little history lesson, you'll find that the SMU death penalty help exacerbate the fall of the Southwest Conference. I was asking could it happen again.

Rather than take a shot at it and be dismissive, either consider it or ignore it.

The Big Ten, SEC, and Pac 12 are the only conferences that truly matter, which is why teams from the Big 12, ACC, and Big East would all jump at the chance if offered admission to any of those conferences.  The ACC, Big East, and Big 12 remnants would all just form 2 better conferences, one of which would include Miami (after its year is up).  

The fall of the Southwest Conference had very little to do with SMU, it was much more a result of it just being to geographically similar and not being able to gain enough television dollars to compete.  That is why Arkansas bolted in 1992 to the SEC.  And why Texas, A&M, Tech, and Baylor joined the Big 8 to form the Big 12.  Sure SMU may have replaced Baylor or Tech had it not collapsed, but the Southwest Conference was doomed to fail in the massively expanding television age because it was entirely one state and one state only after Arkansas was gone.  It just couldn't get the television dollars it needed to survive.