I hate to admit it but getting Howard means trading Rondo for Chris Paul

[wdleehi]

Did you see him destroy the Lakers single handed this year?
Was that not good enough a 'return to form'?
the guy is a monster on offense and defense.

  I saw him destroy the Lakers in a couple of games and look less spectacular in their 4 losses. But I guess a good 4-5 game stretch is all the proof anyone should need that he's fully recovered...

That's a fair enough point, but I could list more than 4 or 5 games in one playoff series where he killed everyone.
Here's a question:
do you think that NBA GM's would worry about his knee in any sort of trade where they could acquire him?

I know the answer.

  Ok, I'll bite. CP3's about a year and a half away from a knee injury, his numbers were significantly worse last year than his pre-injury numbers and many descriptions of his knee use the phrase bone on bone. Would GMs worry about his knee at all?

Would they worry about it?  Yes.

Would they still jump at a chance to acquire him for anything less than a superstar?

Absolutely.

  I think you'd have to have a fairly loose definition of a superstar for this to be true.

??


Every NBA player, talking head, GM, most fans, coaches...

Have talked about Paul as a superstar in the NBA.

[BballTim]

Did you see him destroy the Lakers single handed this year?
Was that not good enough a 'return to form'?
the guy is a monster on offense and defense.

  I saw him destroy the Lakers in a couple of games and look less spectacular in their 4 losses. But I guess a good 4-5 game stretch is all the proof anyone should need that he's fully recovered...

That's a fair enough point, but I could list more than 4 or 5 games in one playoff series where he killed everyone.
Here's a question:
do you think that NBA GM's would worry about his knee in any sort of trade where they could acquire him?

I know the answer.

  Ok, I'll bite. CP3's about a year and a half away from a knee injury, his numbers were significantly worse last year than his pre-injury numbers and many descriptions of his knee use the phrase bone on bone. Would GMs worry about his knee at all?

Would they worry about it?  Yes.

Would they still jump at a chance to acquire him for anything less than a superstar?

Absolutely.

  I think you'd have to have a fairly loose definition of a superstar for this to be true.

??


Every NBA player, talking head, GM, most fans, coaches...

Have talked about Paul as a superstar in the NBA.

  Three years ago he was a MVP candidate in the argument for the best player in the game. Last year he was 3rd team all-nba. The list of players that you'd trade for 10-11 CP3 would be shorter than the list that you'd trade for 08-09 CP3, don't you think?

[Donoghus]

Did you see him destroy the Lakers single handed this year?
Was that not good enough a 'return to form'?
the guy is a monster on offense and defense.

  I saw him destroy the Lakers in a couple of games and look less spectacular in their 4 losses. But I guess a good 4-5 game stretch is all the proof anyone should need that he's fully recovered...

That's a fair enough point, but I could list more than 4 or 5 games in one playoff series where he killed everyone.
Here's a question:
do you think that NBA GM's would worry about his knee in any sort of trade where they could acquire him?

I know the answer.

  Ok, I'll bite. CP3's about a year and a half away from a knee injury, his numbers were significantly worse last year than his pre-injury numbers and many descriptions of his knee use the phrase bone on bone. Would GMs worry about his knee at all?

Would they worry about it?  Yes.

Would they still jump at a chance to acquire him for anything less than a superstar?

Absolutely.

  I think you'd have to have a fairly loose definition of a superstar for this to be true.

??


Every NBA player, talking head, GM, most fans, coaches...

Have talked about Paul as a superstar in the NBA.

  Three years ago he was a MVP candidate in the argument for the best player in the game. Last year he was 3rd team all-nba. The list of players that you'd trade for 10-11 CP3 would be shorter than the list that you'd trade for 08-09 CP3, don't you think?

He's still a superstar and a top 3 PG in the league.

Making the All-NBA 3rd team with a stat line of 15.8 ppg 9.8 ast 4.1 rpg & 2.4 stls isn't exactly a huge detriment given the seasons put up by the guards ahead of him in '10-11.

[BballTim]

Did you see him destroy the Lakers single handed this year?
Was that not good enough a 'return to form'?
the guy is a monster on offense and defense.

  I saw him destroy the Lakers in a couple of games and look less spectacular in their 4 losses. But I guess a good 4-5 game stretch is all the proof anyone should need that he's fully recovered...

That's a fair enough point, but I could list more than 4 or 5 games in one playoff series where he killed everyone.
Here's a question:
do you think that NBA GM's would worry about his knee in any sort of trade where they could acquire him?

I know the answer.

  Ok, I'll bite. CP3's about a year and a half away from a knee injury, his numbers were significantly worse last year than his pre-injury numbers and many descriptions of his knee use the phrase bone on bone. Would GMs worry about his knee at all?

Would they worry about it?  Yes.

Would they still jump at a chance to acquire him for anything less than a superstar?

Absolutely.

  I think you'd have to have a fairly loose definition of a superstar for this to be true.

??


Every NBA player, talking head, GM, most fans, coaches...

Have talked about Paul as a superstar in the NBA.

  Three years ago he was a MVP candidate in the argument for the best player in the game. Last year he was 3rd team all-nba. The list of players that you'd trade for 10-11 CP3 would be shorter than the list that you'd trade for 08-09 CP3, don't you think?

He's still a superstar and a top 3 PG in the league.

Making the All-NBA 3rd team with a stat line of 15.8 ppg 9.8 ast 4.1 rpg & 2.4 stls isn't exactly a huge detriment given the seasons put up by the guards ahead of him in '10-11.

  I'll stick with my earlier statement. Sometimes people refer to the top 3-4 players in the league as superstars, sometimes people refer top the top 15 or so players. You'd need to be talking about the latter for this discussion.

[wdleehi]

Did you see him destroy the Lakers single handed this year?
Was that not good enough a 'return to form'?
the guy is a monster on offense and defense.

  I saw him destroy the Lakers in a couple of games and look less spectacular in their 4 losses. But I guess a good 4-5 game stretch is all the proof anyone should need that he's fully recovered...

That's a fair enough point, but I could list more than 4 or 5 games in one playoff series where he killed everyone.
Here's a question:
do you think that NBA GM's would worry about his knee in any sort of trade where they could acquire him?

I know the answer.

  Ok, I'll bite. CP3's about a year and a half away from a knee injury, his numbers were significantly worse last year than his pre-injury numbers and many descriptions of his knee use the phrase bone on bone. Would GMs worry about his knee at all?

Would they worry about it?  Yes.

Would they still jump at a chance to acquire him for anything less than a superstar?

Absolutely.

  I think you'd have to have a fairly loose definition of a superstar for this to be true.

??


Every NBA player, talking head, GM, most fans, coaches...

Have talked about Paul as a superstar in the NBA.

  Three years ago he was a MVP candidate in the argument for the best player in the game. Last year he was 3rd team all-nba. The list of players that you'd trade for 10-11 CP3 would be shorter than the list that you'd trade for 08-09 CP3, don't you think?

He's still a superstar and a top 3 PG in the league.

Making the All-NBA 3rd team with a stat line of 15.8 ppg 9.8 ast 4.1 rpg & 2.4 stls isn't exactly a huge detriment given the seasons put up by the guards ahead of him in '10-11.

  I'll stick with my earlier statement. Sometimes people refer to the top 3-4 players in the league as superstars, sometimes people refer top the top 15 or so players. You'd need to be talking about the latter for this discussion.

Top 5 player in the league.

Top PG.

[BballTim]

Top 5 player in the league.

Top PG.

  Clearly opinions vary. There's three players in Florida most people would consider better than Paul. I doubt there's only one other in the entire league.

[wdleehi]

Top 5 player in the league.

Top PG.

  Clearly opinions vary. There's three players in Florida most people would consider better than Paul. I doubt there's only one other in the entire league.

Throw in Paul and Durant, you got your top 5.

[deekhead]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsde01.html


I'm not going to say he wasn't clutch, but on a team with Bird, Parish, and McHale, I don't believe he was exactly the number one option in crunch time.

Also, DJ's free throw shooting and jump shot improved over his NBA career.  I believe that Rondo can do the same.  

I didn't suggest that DJ was the number one option at crunch time. He wasn't. He didn't need to be with the supporting cast that he had but he was fearless taking the big shot if he had it.

My point: that you wanted DJ handling the ball, leading the team, making the decisions, spreading the floor, taking it to the hoop, dishing off to the open man, taking the big shot if open, making good things happen.

Rondo barely touches the ball when the game is on the line, for obvious reasons. He is an offensive liability. Teams cheat on him. Instead, plays are frequently run thru CPP, for better/worse.

Teams never cheated on DJ at crunch time. He made them pay in spades if they tried.

Rondo doesn't.

DH

[BballTim]

When the game is on the line, Rondo becomes simply a role player. He doesn't disappear. He's still out on the court.

Maybe he will set a pik or snag a rebound or make a steal but he is not the playmaker. He's not directing the offense. He is not demanding the ball to make something happen. It's not Rondo's team anymore.

That's what DJ did so well. That's what CP3 does now. They live(d) for these moments.

  Just a quick point on CP3's clutch stats (per48 numbers from 82games): in 07-08, he scored 38.8 points (11th in the league) and had 15.7 fta (21st in the league) with an efg% of .522. In 08-09, he scored 45.1 points (5th in the league) and took 17.5 fta (11th in the league with an efg% of .545. 09-10, 39.2 points (9th in the league), 11.2 fta (41st) with an efg% of .545. Last year he scores 24.8 points and 9.4 fta (neither are in the top 60 for the league) with an efg% of .343. That's quite a drop.

[BballTim]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnsde01.html


I'm not going to say he wasn't clutch, but on a team with Bird, Parish, and McHale, I don't believe he was exactly the number one option in crunch time.

Also, DJ's free throw shooting and jump shot improved over his NBA career.  I believe that Rondo can do the same.  

I didn't suggest that DJ was the number one option at crunch time. He wasn't. He didn't need to be with the supporting cast that he had but he was fearless taking the big shot if he had it.

My point: that you wanted DJ handling the ball, leading the team, making the decisions, spreading the floor, taking it to the hoop, dishing off to the open man, taking the big shot if open, making good things happen.

  The guy most people wanted doing all of those things was Larry Bird.

Rondo barely touches the ball when the game is on the line, for obvious reasons. He is an offensive liability. Teams cheat on him. Instead, plays are frequently run thru CPP, for better/worse.

Teams never cheated on DJ at crunch time. He made them pay in spades if they tried.

Rondo doesn't.

DH

  DJ frequently made teams pay for cheating off of him, but they did leave him alone on a regular basis.

[Roy H.]

When the game is on the line, Rondo becomes simply a role player. He doesn't disappear. He's still out on the court.

Maybe he will set a pik or snag a rebound or make a steal but he is not the playmaker. He's not directing the offense. He is not demanding the ball to make something happen. It's not Rondo's team anymore.

That's what DJ did so well. That's what CP3 does now. They live(d) for these moments.

  Just a quick point on CP3's clutch stats (per48 numbers from 82games): in 07-08, he scored 38.8 points (11th in the league) and had 15.7 fta (21st in the league) with an efg% of .522. In 08-09, he scored 45.1 points (5th in the league) and took 17.5 fta (11th in the league with an efg% of .545. 09-10, 39.2 points (9th in the league), 11.2 fta (41st) with an efg% of .545. Last year he scores 24.8 points and 9.4 fta (neither are in the top 60 for the league) with an efg% of .343. That's quite a drop.

I think Rondo was the one with the .343 eFG% in clutch situations; Paul was at .390 (which still is a drop from his normal excellence, obviously).

[BballTim]

When the game is on the line, Rondo becomes simply a role player. He doesn't disappear. He's still out on the court.

Maybe he will set a pik or snag a rebound or make a steal but he is not the playmaker. He's not directing the offense. He is not demanding the ball to make something happen. It's not Rondo's team anymore.

That's what DJ did so well. That's what CP3 does now. They live(d) for these moments.

  Just a quick point on CP3's clutch stats (per48 numbers from 82games): in 07-08, he scored 38.8 points (11th in the league) and had 15.7 fta (21st in the league) with an efg% of .522. In 08-09, he scored 45.1 points (5th in the league) and took 17.5 fta (11th in the league with an efg% of .545. 09-10, 39.2 points (9th in the league), 11.2 fta (41st) with an efg% of .545. Last year he scores 24.8 points and 9.4 fta (neither are in the top 60 for the league) with an efg% of .343. That's quite a drop.

I think Rondo was the one with the .343 eFG% in clutch situations; Paul was at .390 (which still is a drop from his normal excellence, obviously).

  Haha. Freudian?

  Looks like CP3 was .415 efg%, I stand corrected.

[chambers]

Pretty sure that Chris Paul makes the classification of superstar.
Starting PG in the All Star game and starting PG for team USA.

He had the league MVP completely robbed from him by Kobe Bryant.
As good as Rondo is, and as much as I love him (he's my favourite player)...Chris Paul is a better player overall.

[Celtics4ever]

Paul is a great player.   But I for one don't think people are ever the same after a bad knee injury. 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/354816-knee-issues-could-potentially-hinder-future-of-nba-all-star-paul

http://www.hoopsnotes.com/teams/neworleans/paul-similar-knee-problems-than-roy/

Talent wise he is a better talent than Rondo.  But has anyone ever maintained the same level of play following a major knee injury.  Please don't bring up Tony Allen he is hurt every two years either and lost a lot of his explosiveness.   When little guys lose speed it's the worst too.

[BballTim]

Pretty sure that Chris Paul makes the classification of superstar.
Starting PG in the All Star game and starting PG for team USA.

He had the league MVP completely robbed from him by Kobe Bryant.
As good as Rondo is, and as much as I love him (he's my favourite player)...Chris Paul is a better player overall.

  He certainly didn't have the league MVP robbed from him last year, wouldn't you agree?