Andrea Bargnani trade proposal

[jaybahs]

  ... seriously?

[zerophase]

I like Barg but the problem with him is that he plays much smaller than he is. He's a 7 footer who should be the next Dirk but plays like a SF.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

don't give up Jeff Green though, but I would love Bargnani along with KG.

The guy is a match up problem for defenses at the Center position. Can shoot outside and bring the opposing center outside the paint.

And for people who says he doesn't play defense. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8gxPVsv00s&feature=player_embedded

He's good defensively on the block. Yes he is soft but he knows how to use his lengthy body to good use down low.

and here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDL8cZ8xaU&feature=player_embedded

once again using his long arms and long body. his 1 on 1 defense is solid.

the problem is his rebounding and his help defense, which CAN be addressed playing in a Celtics style system (this guy played for Jay Triano's system and look how the whole team defense turned out).

But adding Jeff Green is too much. I think a SnT BBD and a 1st (the Clips' first) is the offer. Him playing with KG, learning a new system and his offensive skills would be great.

[Scribbles]

A late second-round pick is giving up to much for Bargnani.

I'm italian and you're absolutely right. He's got no defense, no heart, can't rebound... one of the most overrated player in history

Both of you really don't watch much basketball outside of the Celtics do you?  When faced with isolated situations he's in the top 20% of the league for PPP(.684) and holds the opponent to a FG% just below 30%.  He is a solid one on one defender.  He is a mediocre rebounder, however he can be solid one when his mind is there.  His help defense is bad, but then again Toronto as a whole was an awful defensive team.  Basically just restated what Yoki said so TP to him.

[Fafnir]

A late second-round pick is giving up to much for Bargnani.

I'm italian and you're absolutely right. He's got no defense, no heart, can't rebound... one of the most overrated player in history

Both of you really don't watch much basketball outside of the Celtics do you?  When faced with isolated situations he's in the top 20% of the league for PPP(.684) and holds the opponent to a FG% just below 30%.  He is a solid one on one defender.  He is a mediocre rebounder, however he can be solid one when his mind is there.  His help defense is bad, but then again Toronto as a whole was an awful defensive team.  Basically just restated what Yoki said so TP to him.

Mediocre rebounder? He's the worst rebounder at his position to get minutes at all.

Being a terrible rebounder and help defender at C makes it awful hard for your team to win games.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

A late second-round pick is giving up to much for Bargnani.

I'm italian and you're absolutely right. He's got no defense, no heart, can't rebound... one of the most overrated player in history

Both of you really don't watch much basketball outside of the Celtics do you?  When faced with isolated situations he's in the top 20% of the league for PPP(.684) and holds the opponent to a FG% just below 30%.  He is a solid one on one defender.  He is a mediocre rebounder, however he can be solid one when his mind is there.  His help defense is bad, but then again Toronto as a whole was an awful defensive team.  Basically just restated what Yoki said so TP to him.

Mediocre rebounder? He's the worst rebounder at his position to get minutes at all.

Being a terrible rebounder and help defender at C makes it awful hard for your team to win games.

Brook Lopez averaged 6 rebounds a game last season and that's him trying. Bargs is a terrible rebounder but there's lack of trying, but if he tries he could be better. Again, what I'm saying is in a new system he could be better defensively and rebounding wise.

[Fafnir]

A late second-round pick is giving up to much for Bargnani.

I'm italian and you're absolutely right. He's got no defense, no heart, can't rebound... one of the most overrated player in history

Both of you really don't watch much basketball outside of the Celtics do you?  When faced with isolated situations he's in the top 20% of the league for PPP(.684) and holds the opponent to a FG% just below 30%.  He is a solid one on one defender.  He is a mediocre rebounder, however he can be solid one when his mind is there.  His help defense is bad, but then again Toronto as a whole was an awful defensive team.  Basically just restated what Yoki said so TP to him.

Mediocre rebounder? He's the worst rebounder at his position to get minutes at all.

Being a terrible rebounder and help defender at C makes it awful hard for your team to win games.

Brook Lopez averaged 6 rebounds a game last season and that's him trying. Bargs is a terrible rebounder but there's lack of trying, but if he tries he could be better. Again, what I'm saying is in a new system he could be better defensively and rebounding wise.

Brook Lopez had several season better than Bargs rebounding before his disasterous season last year.

I don't think rebounding is a skill that you suddenly will pick up in your 5th year in the league because you're on a team that does a better job of it as a unit.

I really doubt Jay Triano and his other coaches have told him its okay to not box out, not explode to the ball, and not try.

Same thing with his help defense. Bargs is a fantastic offensive center, opens up the court for his team because he plays on the outside like a SF. But his abysmal rebounding and defense aren't going to improve with just a scenery change, and prevent him from being an impact player at the C position.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

A late second-round pick is giving up to much for Bargnani.

I'm italian and you're absolutely right. He's got no defense, no heart, can't rebound... one of the most overrated player in history

Both of you really don't watch much basketball outside of the Celtics do you?  When faced with isolated situations he's in the top 20% of the league for PPP(.684) and holds the opponent to a FG% just below 30%.  He is a solid one on one defender.  He is a mediocre rebounder, however he can be solid one when his mind is there.  His help defense is bad, but then again Toronto as a whole was an awful defensive team.  Basically just restated what Yoki said so TP to him.

Mediocre rebounder? He's the worst rebounder at his position to get minutes at all.

Being a terrible rebounder and help defender at C makes it awful hard for your team to win games.

Brook Lopez averaged 6 rebounds a game last season and that's him trying. Bargs is a terrible rebounder but there's lack of trying, but if he tries he could be better. Again, what I'm saying is in a new system he could be better defensively and rebounding wise.

Brook Lopez had several season better than Bargs rebounding before his disasterous season last year.

I don't think rebounding is a skill that you suddenly will pick up in your 5th year in the league because you're on a team that does a better job of it as a unit.

I really doubt Jay Triano and his other coaches have told him its okay to not box out, not explode to the ball, and not try.

Same thing with his help defense. Bargs is a fantastic offensive center, opens up the court for his team because he plays on the outside like a SF. But his abysmal rebounding and defense aren't going to improve with just a scenery change, and prevent him from being an impact player at the C position.

There are games where he gets 8-9 rebounds and 2 blocks and games that are just plain absurd. It tells he's inconsistent when it comes to that part. A change of scene could motivate him to do more. Especially when he's not the main focus on the front court defense. And I'm not saying Jay Triano does tell him not to do stuff, what I meant was the Celtics' system could probably give him more insights on what to do to do better.

[Fafnir]

There are games where he gets 8-9 rebounds and 2 blocks and games that are just plain absurd. It tells he's inconsistent when it comes to that part. A change of scene could motivate him to do more. Especially when he's not the main focus on the front court defense. And I'm not saying Jay Triano does tell him not to do stuff, what I meant was the Celtics' system could probably give him more insights on what to do to do better.

Sometimes the ball just bounces straight toward you, sometimes that happens 9 times a game.

In 66 games this past year he got double digit rebound totals twice, and he hit 9 or more only seven times. This is with 35 minutes per game.....

I have to disagree with you again Andrea Bargnani is actually very consistent when it comes to his rebounding and help defense.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

There are games where he gets 8-9 rebounds and 2 blocks and games that are just plain absurd. It tells he's inconsistent when it comes to that part. A change of scene could motivate him to do more. Especially when he's not the main focus on the front court defense. And I'm not saying Jay Triano does tell him not to do stuff, what I meant was the Celtics' system could probably give him more insights on what to do to do better.

Sometimes the ball just bounces straight toward you, sometimes that happens 9 times a game.

In 66 games this past year he got double digit rebound totals twice, and he hit 9 or more only seven times. This is with 35 minutes per game.....

I have to disagree with you again Andrea Bargnani is actually very consistent when it comes to his rebounding and help defense.

I said he was inconsistent. And a change of scenery could help him.

[Change]

don't give up Jeff Green though, but I would love Bargnani along with KG.

The guy is a match up problem for defenses at the Center position. Can shoot outside and bring the opposing center outside the paint.

And for people who says he doesn't play defense. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8gxPVsv00s&feature=player_embedded

He's good defensively on the block. Yes he is soft but he knows how to use his lengthy body to good use down low.

and here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDL8cZ8xaU&feature=player_embedded

once again using his long arms and long body. his 1 on 1 defense is solid.

the problem is his rebounding and his help defense, which CAN be addressed playing in a Celtics style system (this guy played for Jay Triano's system and look how the whole team defense turned out).

But adding Jeff Green is too much. I think a SnT BBD and a 1st (the Clips' first) is the offer. Him playing with KG, learning a new system and his offensive skills would be great.

Glad to see another poster likes Bargnani. But being former 1st overall pick, Fat Baby won't be enough to get him. For a fair trade Jeff Green must be included in a Bargnani trade.

I don't think the Celtics will lose a beat defensively with Bargnani; Jermaine and KG has his back at all times. Offensively Andrea will be a monster in the Celtics system. Andrea take pressure off the big3 in the scoring department which is always a plus. Match-up problem for any big trying to guard outside the basket.

Finishing games with

Rondo
Ray
Pierce
Bargnani
Garnett

SCARY!!!!  

[Yoki_IsTheName]

don't give up Jeff Green though, but I would love Bargnani along with KG.

The guy is a match up problem for defenses at the Center position. Can shoot outside and bring the opposing center outside the paint.

And for people who says he doesn't play defense. Here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8gxPVsv00s&feature=player_embedded

He's good defensively on the block. Yes he is soft but he knows how to use his lengthy body to good use down low.

and here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBDL8cZ8xaU&feature=player_embedded

once again using his long arms and long body. his 1 on 1 defense is solid.

the problem is his rebounding and his help defense, which CAN be addressed playing in a Celtics style system (this guy played for Jay Triano's system and look how the whole team defense turned out).

But adding Jeff Green is too much. I think a SnT BBD and a 1st (the Clips' first) is the offer. Him playing with KG, learning a new system and his offensive skills would be great.

Glad to see another poster likes Bargnani. But being former 1st overall pick, Fat Baby won't be enough to get him. For a fair trade Jeff Green must be included in a Bargnani trade.

I don't think the Celtics will lose a beat defensively with Bargnani; Jermaine and KG has his back at all times. Offensively Andrea will be a monster in the Celtics system. Andrea take pressure off the big3 in the scoring department which is always a plus. Match-up problem for any big trying to guard outside the basket.

Finishing games with

Rondo
Ray
Pierce
Bargnani
Garnett

SCARY!!!!  

You got a point. But giving Jeff Green along with BBD is too much for  Bargs. Unless they add James Johnson. Green - Baby - 1st (maybe) for Bargs and Johnson.

[RyNye]

Why on earth would anyone want Bargnani? He is not only one of the worst players in the league right now, he is a HISTORICALLY bad player. He is a horrible rebounder, awful at team defense (and only adequate at one-on-one D), and not an efficient scorer.

Look at his advanced metrics. The AVERAGE NBA player has a WP48 score of 1.00. Bargnani's is NEGATIVE 17.8 ; this means his poor performances cost his team almost 18 wins over the course of an 82 game season. Since 1978, only 6 players in the NBA have had worse seasons than Bargnani. Jason Collins, Kevin Duckworth, Maurice Taylor, James Edwards, Jeff Turner, and Cliff Robinson. Bargnani is cancer to a team. Hell, Alonzo Gee scored more efficiently AND grabbed more rebounds than Bargnani this past season, and he's a shooting guard!

Here, read some of the articles on Wages of Wins about him: link

Not only should we never trade for a player as hideously inefficient and damaging to a team as Bargnani is, but he has no business even being in the NBA to begin with. Just awful. I don't understand why anyone can watch him and think he's even halfway decent.

[Fafnir]

Why on earth would anyone want Bargnani? He is not only one of the worst players in the league right now, he is a HISTORICALLY bad player. He is a horrible rebounder, awful at team defense (and only adequate at one-on-one D), and not an efficient scorer.

Look at his advanced metrics. The AVERAGE NBA player has a WP48 score of 1.00. Bargnani's is NEGATIVE 17.8 ; this means his poor performances cost his team almost 18 wins over the course of an 82 game season. Since 1978, only 6 players in the NBA have had worse seasons than Bargnani. Jason Collins, Kevin Duckworth, Maurice Taylor, James Edwards, Jeff Turner, and Cliff Robinson. Bargnani is cancer to a team. Hell, Alonzo Gee scored more efficiently AND grabbed more rebounds than Bargnani this past season, and he's a shooting guard!

Here, read some of the articles on Wages of Wins about him: link

Not only should we never trade for a player as hideously inefficient and damaging to a team as Bargnani is, but he has no business even being in the NBA to begin with. Just awful. I don't understand why anyone can watch him and think he's even halfway decent.

The problem with WP is that it credits all defense to rebounds, if you don't rebound for your position you rate as a horrible player.

Anyone who's a good rebounder gets rated hugely by that statistic. Do you really think Kevin Love is the best player in the NBA and that Reggie Evans is an all star?

I'm not a fan of Bargs, but he's not that bad.

[LooseCannon]

Why on earth would anyone want Bargnani?

If they're desperate for a great white hope.