Ric Bucher: CP3's Best Fit is in Boston

[Bean_town fan]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

[Roy H.]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

How big do you perceive the gap to be between CP3's intangibles / floor vision and Rondo's?

Rondo is an excellent -- sometimes amazing -- passer.  However, I think Chris Paul is, too.  In fact, Paul averages almost as many assists, while averaging a lot fewer turnovers.  I think some would argue that he's a better passer than even Rondo is.

[ms.ball]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

Word for word agree!

[FallGuy]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

How big do you perceive the gap to be between CP3's intangibles / floor vision and Rondo's?

Rondo is an excellent -- sometimes amazing -- passer.  However, I think Chris Paul is, too.  In fact, Paul averages almost as many assists, while averaging a lot fewer turnovers.  I think some would argue that he's a better passer than even Rondo is.

Jumping in to second Roy's comments. I'd take Paul over Rondo in every aspect of the game except defense.

If Ainge can do it, a Paul-Rondo trade is one that every observer -- save a certain group of Celtics' fans -- realizes would benefit Boston immensely.

Then you go get D12 in the summer with CP3 as the lure.

[Bean_town fan]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

How big do you perceive the gap to be between CP3's intangibles / floor vision and Rondo's?

Rondo is an excellent -- sometimes amazing -- passer.  However, I think Chris Paul is, too.  In fact, Paul averages almost as many assists, while averaging a lot fewer turnovers.  I think some would argue that he's a better passer than even Rondo is.

Jumping in to second Roy's comments. I'd take Paul over Rondo in every aspect of the game except defense.

If Ainge can do it, a Paul-Rondo trade is one that every observer -- save a certain group of Celtics' fans -- realizes would benefit Boston immensely.

Then you go get D12 in the summer with CP3 as the lure.

I definitely understand the logic that people are following re getting CP3.....but the main reason people want him, is because he'd be a draw card for Howard. But what if Howard doesn't come? Do we then end up with an angry CP3, basically stuck on a rebuilding team? Or do we stay with Rondo, and if we miss out on Howard, we still have a great PG to build around OR we still have a great trade chip, because lets face it, if we got CP3 but missed out on Howard, you wouldn't trade him just after trading for him.....

I guess until I can come around to Howard coming here, I'll be a bit of a negative nancy lol. However, to those that say 'CP3 is injury prone....no thanks' I definitely disagree with as being a problem because then you can say Rondo is injury prone.....

[BballTim]

While you get better offense and world wide star power in CP3....you lose better D and amazing intangibles in Rondo.....I mean who can run/see the floor and create better than Rondo? No one!

Rondo has prolonged the productivity (maybe careers?) of the big 3....that counts for something!

How big do you perceive the gap to be between CP3's intangibles / floor vision and Rondo's?

Rondo is an excellent -- sometimes amazing -- passer.  However, I think Chris Paul is, too.  In fact, Paul averages almost as many assists, while averaging a lot fewer turnovers.  I think some would argue that he's a better passer than even Rondo is.

  Paul's definitely a more careful passer than Rondo. But it's also worth pointing out that that (from hoopdata) 41% of Rondo's assists are at the rim compared to 32% for Paul. Rajon's making higher risk passes which lead to higher percentage shots.

  Not for nothing, but if Rondo took the same percentage of shots at the rim and had the same percentage of assists at the rim as CP3 the Celts would go from 11th in the league in shots at the rim to around 21st in the league in shots at the rim. That's a significant hit to our offense. People who claim that our offense would be much better with CP3 need to figure this in.

  Edit: Adjusting for pace and minutes, Rondo score or assists shots at the rim at a rate that's about 67% higher than CP3 does.

  As for Rondo's floor vision/intangibles, I think people tend to underestimate them. People frequently mention that Rondo's shooting and the way teams defend him makes it harder for the other players to score. This, in a vacuum, is entirely true. However, it's also true that the team scores better and shoots more efficiently with Rondo playing. His impact on the offense is statistically among the best in the league for point guards.

  His passing/courtvision/ability to run an offense/intangibles are at the level that he has a positive impact on an offense in spite of his shooting. Imagine Chris Paul being basically the same player that he is now, only with a below average outside shot that defenses didn't respect and a ft% in the 60s. How much less of an impact on an offense would he have? One could argue that the bulk of the dropoff in CP3's effectiveness would amount to how much better Rondo is in other phases of the game.

[aporel#18]

I love Rondo, but if you can swap him for Chris Paul you should do it. CP3 is the best PG and IMO the most talented player in the league. Rondo can be a monster at D, but Paul is great also.

Of course, Stern and the other owners won't allow such a trade. That would make the Celtics even stronger, and they hate the Celtics.

Last playoffs he was still recovering from surgery, and he almost singlehandedly destroyed the Fakers. Could you picture Ray, CP3 and the Captain as a triple threat from 3-point land? That'd be too much...

It won't happen

[Moranis]

I'm not following Bucher's logic:

The C's could either trade Rondo for CP or simply sign CP as a free agent, but the latter option would leave them with both RR and CP, so they'd trade for him instead?

If you had both CP3 and RR on the same roster, you have an $11m backup point guard; why would you want that?  Not only would RR object to not getting minutes, but from the team perspective you would put the money towards a starter or bench players that would actually get significant minutes. 

I can't believe there are actually Celtics fans who would not trade Rondo for CP3. 

I'm pretty sure he is saying sign CP3 outright and then trade Rondo somewhere else and in bring in a different piece like for example trade Rondo to Atlanta for Josh Smith.

[LooseCannon]

Are the Celtics the best fit for any point guard who is a great passer?

[Carhole]

This is one of those things where no matter how many times you talk about it, you keep coming back to the same thing.  If you can get the Paul of 3 years ago and only have to give up Rondo and filler, that's hard to turn down.  If Paul can't ever get back to that level, you're taking on a much bigger salary obligation for a player who's only slighter better than Rondo at best.

Mike

Good post

....Only slightly better...If better at all...For this team.

If there is a way to get CP3 in green, you have to do it.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team and CP3 has made guys like David West look like All-Stars.

Hell, he may even be able to make a career for Jeff Green.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team??  What??  Rondo has made guys like Perk average double figures.  

I forgot about that championship that Paul lead New Orleans to....Sorry.

Ric Bucher sounds like Ric Flair talking basketball.

Rondo was the fourth best player on that championship team, he didn't lead anyone anyhere.  Rondo could never do for New Orleans what Chris Paul has done.

Without that 4th best player leading that team...They don't get out of the second round.

 What exactly has Chris Paul done for New Orleans that Rondo hasn't done for Boston?  

You really believe without rondo we dont get out of the 2nd round? Really?

Rondo constantly got pulled in big moments all playoffs any reasonable nba player at the point on that 2007-2008 team and the Celtics win.

He wasnt even on the floor crunch time of game 7 against clevelent, not to mention

Game 6 in Det, PP did almost all the ball handling during the 10 comeback in the 4th. Game 4 finals, rondo got pulled for basically the entire 2nd half while PP again ran the point until we finished off biggest comeback in finals history....

Saying rondo led that team is some serious revisionist history.
 

[BballTim]

This is one of those things where no matter how many times you talk about it, you keep coming back to the same thing.  If you can get the Paul of 3 years ago and only have to give up Rondo and filler, that's hard to turn down.  If Paul can't ever get back to that level, you're taking on a much bigger salary obligation for a player who's only slighter better than Rondo at best.

Mike

Good post

....Only slightly better...If better at all...For this team.

If there is a way to get CP3 in green, you have to do it.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team and CP3 has made guys like David West look like All-Stars.

Hell, he may even be able to make a career for Jeff Green.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team??  What??  Rondo has made guys like Perk average double figures.  

I forgot about that championship that Paul lead New Orleans to....Sorry.

Ric Bucher sounds like Ric Flair talking basketball.

Rondo was the fourth best player on that championship team, he didn't lead anyone anyhere.  Rondo could never do for New Orleans what Chris Paul has done.

Without that 4th best player leading that team...They don't get out of the second round.

 What exactly has Chris Paul done for New Orleans that Rondo hasn't done for Boston?  

You really believe without rondo we dont get out of the 2nd round? Really?

Rondo constantly got pulled in big moments all playoffs any reasonable nba player at the point on that 2007-2008 team and the Celtics win.

He wasnt even on the floor crunch time of game 7 against clevelent, not to mention

Game 6 in Det, PP did almost all the ball handling during the 10 comeback in the 4th. Game 4 finals, rondo got pulled for basically the entire 2nd half while PP again ran the point until we finished off biggest comeback in finals history....

Saying rondo led that team is some serious revisionist history.
 

  Rondo came out near the end of the game7 vs Cleveland when Doc was doing offense/defense subs but he played more than 10 minutes of the 4th quarter. He was "pulled for basically the entire 2nd half" of game 4 vs the Lakers because he sprained his ankle in game 3. Serious revisionist history happens on both sides of the debate, apparently.

[Greenbean]

Now that we are exiting the Big 3's window, havent we been saying all along that ROndo will need to become a better scorer?

Well if you can trade for a guy who is a better scorer already, and is almost as good as a passer and defender, dont you do it in a second?

CP3 is everything we want Rondo to be post big 3...

[Moranis]

This is one of those things where no matter how many times you talk about it, you keep coming back to the same thing.  If you can get the Paul of 3 years ago and only have to give up Rondo and filler, that's hard to turn down.  If Paul can't ever get back to that level, you're taking on a much bigger salary obligation for a player who's only slighter better than Rondo at best.

Mike

Good post

....Only slightly better...If better at all...For this team.

If there is a way to get CP3 in green, you have to do it.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team and CP3 has made guys like David West look like All-Stars.

Hell, he may even be able to make a career for Jeff Green.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team??  What??  Rondo has made guys like Perk average double figures.  

I forgot about that championship that Paul lead New Orleans to....Sorry.

Ric Bucher sounds like Ric Flair talking basketball.

Rondo was the fourth best player on that championship team, he didn't lead anyone anyhere.  Rondo could never do for New Orleans what Chris Paul has done.

Without that 4th best player leading that team...They don't get out of the second round.

 What exactly has Chris Paul done for New Orleans that Rondo hasn't done for Boston?  

You really believe without rondo we dont get out of the 2nd round? Really?

Rondo constantly got pulled in big moments all playoffs any reasonable nba player at the point on that 2007-2008 team and the Celtics win.

He wasnt even on the floor crunch time of game 7 against clevelent, not to mention

Game 6 in Det, PP did almost all the ball handling during the 10 comeback in the 4th. Game 4 finals, rondo got pulled for basically the entire 2nd half while PP again ran the point until we finished off biggest comeback in finals history....

Saying rondo led that team is some serious revisionist history.
 

  Rondo came out near the end of the game7 vs Cleveland when Doc was doing offense/defense subs but he played more than 10 minutes of the 4th quarter. He was "pulled for basically the entire 2nd half" of game 4 vs the Lakers because he sprained his ankle in game 3. Serious revisionist history happens on both sides of the debate, apparently.

except what you say pretty much proves the point that Rondo wasn't really all that necessary nor really impacted the Celtics title much one way or the other.  I mean shear fact that he was being pulled on offense and barely played because he was hurt, and yet the Celtics won, pretty much proves the point he just wasn't that necessary.

[BballTim]

This is one of those things where no matter how many times you talk about it, you keep coming back to the same thing.  If you can get the Paul of 3 years ago and only have to give up Rondo and filler, that's hard to turn down.  If Paul can't ever get back to that level, you're taking on a much bigger salary obligation for a player who's only slighter better than Rondo at best.

Mike

Good post

....Only slightly better...If better at all...For this team.

If there is a way to get CP3 in green, you have to do it.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team and CP3 has made guys like David West look like All-Stars.

Hell, he may even be able to make a career for Jeff Green.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team??  What??  Rondo has made guys like Perk average double figures.  

I forgot about that championship that Paul lead New Orleans to....Sorry.

Ric Bucher sounds like Ric Flair talking basketball.

Rondo was the fourth best player on that championship team, he didn't lead anyone anyhere.  Rondo could never do for New Orleans what Chris Paul has done.

Without that 4th best player leading that team...They don't get out of the second round.

 What exactly has Chris Paul done for New Orleans that Rondo hasn't done for Boston?  

You really believe without rondo we dont get out of the 2nd round? Really?

Rondo constantly got pulled in big moments all playoffs any reasonable nba player at the point on that 2007-2008 team and the Celtics win.

He wasnt even on the floor crunch time of game 7 against clevelent, not to mention

Game 6 in Det, PP did almost all the ball handling during the 10 comeback in the 4th. Game 4 finals, rondo got pulled for basically the entire 2nd half while PP again ran the point until we finished off biggest comeback in finals history....

Saying rondo led that team is some serious revisionist history.
 

  Rondo came out near the end of the game7 vs Cleveland when Doc was doing offense/defense subs but he played more than 10 minutes of the 4th quarter. He was "pulled for basically the entire 2nd half" of game 4 vs the Lakers because he sprained his ankle in game 3. Serious revisionist history happens on both sides of the debate, apparently.

except what you say pretty much proves the point that Rondo wasn't really all that necessary nor really impacted the Celtics title much one way or the other.  I mean shear fact that he was being pulled on offense and barely played because he was hurt, and yet the Celtics won, pretty much proves the point he just wasn't that necessary.

  We beat LA fairly handily in the three games that Rondo was healthy, and needed to come back from a huge deficit to get one win in the three games when he wasn't. I think it proves the opposite.

[wdleehi]

Rondo in 2008 is not the Rondo being discussed.



Rondo now is a top 5 PG.  Much better then in 2008.




Paul is the top PG, top 5 NBA player. 


Celtics make this trade without a 2nd thought.