Ric Bucher: CP3's Best Fit is in Boston

[syfy9]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

[wdleehi]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

Now we are comparing Rondo to one of the top two players off all time and the greatest winner in the NBA?




And yes, look at the stars Red traded. 

[Chris]

I am not sure why people think Paul is a worse fit for the C's team than Rondo.  I can understand that argument for guys like Rose and Westbrook, but not Paul.

Paul is the most complete PG in the league.  He is a great (not good, great) passer, and even if he isn't as good at that as Rondo (which is debatable), he is close.  He is a great scorer, and he is a good defender (Rondo is better, but not by that much...they both are kind of trick or treat defenders).

For me, the key with Paul is that he will still be able to get the ball to the Big 3 as well as almost any PG in the league, but he will also be able to make teams pay for cheating off him, which will make things even easier for Ray, Pierce, and KG.

People seem to look at Paul's scoring numbers and think he is a volume scorer.  He has been taking on more of a scoring role, because that is what his team needs from them without any other front line scorers on the roster.  However, he is always among the top of the league in assists, and is absolutely one of the best "pure" PGs the league has seen, maybe ever.

The one area where Paul is not better than Rondo is defensively.  However, this is a bit of a weak case because Rondo is nowhere near as good as he is touted as.  Yes, he has the ability to be dominant.  But he doesn't dominate defensively with any consistency.  He gets beat way too much, and is constantly pacing himself. 

Rondo is not Bill Russell, who dominated games with his defense and rebounding for every second he was on the floor.  Rondo will dominate for a couple 3 minute stretches, and then be an average defender for the other 34 minutes he plays.

For me, that is nowhere near enough to make up for the dramatic difference Paul would have on the offense of a team made up of aging stars who can't carry the scoring burden nearly as much as they could a few years ago.

[BballTim]

This is one of those things where no matter how many times you talk about it, you keep coming back to the same thing.  If you can get the Paul of 3 years ago and only have to give up Rondo and filler, that's hard to turn down.  If Paul can't ever get back to that level, you're taking on a much bigger salary obligation for a player who's only slighter better than Rondo at best.

Mike

Good post

....Only slightly better...If better at all...For this team.

If there is a way to get CP3 in green, you have to do it.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team and CP3 has made guys like David West look like All-Stars.

Hell, he may even be able to make a career for Jeff Green.

Rondo hasn't shown he can lead a team??  What??  Rondo has made guys like Perk average double figures. 

I forgot about that championship that Paul lead New Orleans to....Sorry.

Ric Bucher sounds like Ric Flair talking basketball.

Rondo was the fourth best player on that championship team, he didn't lead anyone anyhere.  Rondo could never do for New Orleans what Chris Paul has done.

Without that 4th best player leading that team...They don't get out of the second round.

 What exactly has Chris Paul done for New Orleans that Rondo hasn't done for Boston? 

Carry a team to the playoffs.


Rondo is a top 5 PG. 


Paul is a top 5 player. 


Rondo has been blessed with great weapons that without him, would still be a contender.


Paul has not had those great weapons.


This doesn't take anything away from what Rondo did.  He is a top 5 PG. 


Paul is the better player.  Period. 



And if you can take a top 5 player at a position and upgrade him to a top 5 player overall (best at the same position), you do it. 

  The 2008-2009 CP3 was a top 5 player in the league. The 2010-2011 version was 3rd team all-nba and managed all of two 5th place votes in MVP voting. He might be somewhat of an improvement over Rondo but at this point in time he's not a top 5 player by any measure.

[BballTim]

For me, that is nowhere near enough to make up for the dramatic difference Paul would have on the offense of a team made up of aging stars who can't carry the scoring burden nearly as much as they could a few years ago.

  The offense may improvement but I don't think the improvement would be tremendous. People are talking about making things easier for the big three but all of them had the best or nearly the best years of their careers in terms of scoring efficiency. You won't get much (if any) improvement in that area. Again, if CP3 returns to his 2009 form you'd see a bigger difference, but if not things will be a little better.

[syfy9]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

Now we are comparing Rondo to one of the top two players off all time and the greatest winner in the NBA?




And yes, look at the stars Red traded. 

That's not what I'm going at, I'm saying comparing Rondo to Chris Paul is somewhat similar to comparing Bill Russell to Wilt.

[Neurotic Guy]

My layperson theory on NBA general managing is simple:  If you can get a top 5 player, get him. 

I am not sure that Chris Paul is top 5, but if Danny thinks so, I don't have any reservations about getting him here -- especially if you give up only Rondo for him. 

Great players contend for championships. 

[wdleehi]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

Now we are comparing Rondo to one of the top two players off all time and the greatest winner in the NBA?




And yes, look at the stars Red traded. 

That's not what I'm going at, I'm saying comparing Rondo to Chris Paul is somewhat similar to comparing Bill Russell to Wilt.

No.  You are comparing the two best players of their eras. 

Two of the top 5 players of all time.



To Rondo, who is top 5 at his position, not he NBA.   

[BballTim]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

Now we are comparing Rondo to one of the top two players off all time and the greatest winner in the NBA?




And yes, look at the stars Red traded. 

That's not what I'm going at, I'm saying comparing Rondo to Chris Paul is somewhat similar to comparing Bill Russell to Wilt.

No.  You are comparing the two best players of their eras. 

Two of the top 5 players of all time.



To Rondo, who is top 5 at his position, not he NBA.   

  No. He's not comparing Rondo to Russell or Chamberlain. He's comparing Rondo to Paul and saying it's similar to comparing Russell to Wilt.

[wdleehi]

Would Red Auerbach trade Bill Russell for Wilt Chamberlain?
What about Rondo for Chris Paul?

I think there's a sense of loyalty to it. Red wouldn't trade for Chris Paul unless he was 100% sure it would be an upgrade. What would happen if Chris Paul gets a season ending injury, playing in a division/conference as tough as the East? He heals, but by then the Big 3 could've retired, and the only thing you have to lure Dwight is an injury prone CP3.

Rondo's never been injured as harshly as CP3, even while playing in a tough Atlantic division. Rondo as of now, would not be considered injury prone. The only thing CP3 has on him is his jump shot/free throws, which I saw improve in the Heat series. I'd give a nod to Rondo in terms of defense, passing, speed, athleticism, and overall potential. If we trade for CP3, all we get is a decent (not pure or what I consider knock-down) jumper.

And wouldn't trading Rondo be more devastating to the team chemistry wise than Perkins? Everyone was out of sync when they lost Perkins. The question should not be, "He's the better player, should we get him because of that?" It should be, "He's the better player, but will he fit in and make well with our team?" I'm pretty sure Ray and Paul and KG would be upset if they lose Rondo. Don't you guys want to win a championship while the Big 3 are still all star-caliber? I imagine CP3 would change similarly to Jeff Green coming to Boston this year.

Now we are comparing Rondo to one of the top two players off all time and the greatest winner in the NBA?




And yes, look at the stars Red traded. 

That's not what I'm going at, I'm saying comparing Rondo to Chris Paul is somewhat similar to comparing Bill Russell to Wilt.

No.  You are comparing the two best players of their eras. 

Two of the top 5 players of all time.



To Rondo, who is top 5 at his position, not he NBA.   

  No. He's not comparing Rondo to Russell or Chamberlain. He's comparing Rondo to Paul and saying it's similar to comparing Russell to Wilt.

But they're not.


Russell and Wilt were the two top players in the NBA.


Compare Russell or Wilt to the 5th best C in that era and ask if teams would trade the C for one of them. 

[soap07]

  The 2008-2009 CP3 was a top 5 player in the league. The 2010-2011 version was 3rd team all-nba and managed all of two 5th place votes in MVP voting. He might be somewhat of an improvement over Rondo but at this point in time he's not a top 5 player by any measure.

He was 4th in Win Shares/48 and sixth in PER (barely).

[soap07]

  The offense may improvement but I don't think the improvement would be tremendous. People are talking about making things easier for the big three but all of them had the best or nearly the best years of their careers in terms of scoring efficiency. You won't get much (if any) improvement in that area. Again, if CP3 returns to his 2009 form you'd see a bigger difference, but if not things will be a little better.

Yet, overall, the C's offense wasn't very good. Yes, offensive rebounding was a problem - but turnovers were absolutely a huge contributor.

[BballTim]

  The offense may improvement but I don't think the improvement would be tremendous. People are talking about making things easier for the big three but all of them had the best or nearly the best years of their careers in terms of scoring efficiency. You won't get much (if any) improvement in that area. Again, if CP3 returns to his 2009 form you'd see a bigger difference, but if not things will be a little better.

Yet, overall, the C's offense wasn't very good. Yes, offensive rebounding was a problem - but turnovers were absolutely a huge contributor.

  CP3 gets about a turnover a game less than Rondo during the season and about a half a turnover a game more than Rondo in the playoffs. You might gain a point a game, but you lose the higher risk passes from Rondo that lead to easy hoops. It would probably be a wash.

 Overall the offense wasn't great, but before Rondo's late season injury issues the Celts were one of the most efficient scoring teams in the league. You won't improve on that by much with a different pg.

[CelticG1]

Rondo to Paul is like Perk to Dwight


Not exactly but closer together than farther apart

[KungPoweChicken]

Paul is one of the best players in the league, Rondo isn't. The deal is easy to make.