Author Topic: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings  (Read 589564 times)

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Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2010 on: October 24, 2011, 05:04:58 PM »

Offline Who

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Hmmm ... as I look at that list, I wonder if the teams will be any different from previous drafts?

The no-trade rule changes things but aside from that ... I don't think the prices are going to have as much impact as I thought they would.

Not sure I am right but it looks to me as if teams can bring in pretty much whoever they want given their draft position ... that the prices of players won't really inhibit their choices for their first 6/7 selections.

I think the prices might need to increase.
Or you lower the total amount to spend to $50000 or $55000
Better idea. Much better idea. Less work to rearrange things.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2011 on: October 24, 2011, 05:19:43 PM »

Offline Who

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I reckon it would cost about $50,000 to build a really good team. But that makes things too simple and straight forward. Very similar to previous drafts.

If you want to make the cap more challenging and build a team around that, you'd need to lower the cap further. 47,000 still seems quite straight forward. 45,000 too. I think when you get into the early 40s, that 40,000 to 43,000 bracket ... things start to get interesting [bad math]

Edit: Completely lost.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 05:25:50 PM by Who »

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2012 on: October 24, 2011, 05:23:30 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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An MVP caliber player is worth more than 25% more than an all-nba player, and much more than 56% more than an all-star.
Says who? Miami had 2 MVP caliber players last year and came in second. Dallas had zero and won it all. The year before Boston had zero and came in second by one really bad half in a game 7.

I'm not sure Miami having Dwade+LeBron and coming in second in the entire league really means anything to help or hurt Fafnir's statement.

Think I'm sitting this one out though if we're gonna do auction-style.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2013 on: October 24, 2011, 05:27:40 PM »

Offline Who

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Think I'm sitting this one out though if we're gonna do auction-style.
It's still in a draft format. Just with a salary cap.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2014 on: October 24, 2011, 05:29:41 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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An MVP caliber player is worth more than 25% more than an all-nba player, and much more than 56% more than an all-star.
Says who? Miami had 2 MVP caliber players last year and came in second. Dallas had zero and won it all. The year before Boston had zero and came in second by one really bad half in a game 7.

I'm not sure Miami having Dwade+LeBron and coming in second in the entire league really means anything to help or hurt Fafnir's statement.

Think I'm sitting this one out though if we're gonna do auction-style.
Well if MVP caliber players are worth so much why is it an MVP hasn't won a title in the year they won the MVP since.....when. I'm not even sure. When it comes to overall quality of team, winning and losing, MVP caliber players aren't worth that much more than All-NBA players.

In the world of owning a franchise and selling shirts and getting television exposure and selling local broadcasting rights and selling out stadiums, sure, an MVP caliber player is worth much more than All Stars of All-NBA caliber players. In fantasy drafts, no way.

Anyway, that's what I meant.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2015 on: October 24, 2011, 05:30:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Think I'm sitting this one out though if we're gonna do auction-style.
It's still in a draft format. Just with a salary cap.
Yeah, its not auction style.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2016 on: October 24, 2011, 05:35:48 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I just wanna draft, maaaaaan

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2017 on: October 24, 2011, 05:41:02 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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An MVP caliber player is worth more than 25% more than an all-nba player, and much more than 56% more than an all-star.
Says who? Miami had 2 MVP caliber players last year and came in second. Dallas had zero and won it all. The year before Boston had zero and came in second by one really bad half in a game 7.

Hey, we are trying to deal with arbitrary and simple numbers not exact numbers. Let's not try to make this too complicated.

If we have to satisfy your idea of mathematical value ratios we can always increase the MVP scale to $13000 or $13500.
Well since I said it Nick, I guess says me. Miami was in the Finals and they lost in six. They did pretty well, despite lacking much quality depth.

Again according to this system LeBron is only worth twice as much as Mario Chalmers, Correy Maggete, and Vince Carter according to your value chart. In the actual NBA LeBron is worth what 20 to 25 wins for his team? The other guys might be worth 5, (if you think they have a positive net impact at all looking at you Maggette!)

I was giving my opinion that you've set the values of the MVP caliber players too low. As Who has said the cap wouldn't change things for the first 5 to 7 rounds from the looks of it. If you want to make a game fun, it should have interesting choices involved, right now the values are such that getting an MVP doesn't inhibt building your team at all.

Rather your draft position will still dominate everything, just like our normal drafts.

Edit: A max salary player (20 million) in the current CBA can take up around 30-35% of his team's cap. Do we want that an MVP's cap number to be less than that by that much?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 05:54:58 PM by Fafnir »

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2018 on: October 24, 2011, 05:48:46 PM »

Offline Who

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I'm finding 41,000 to 43,000 to offer the best ranges for building a quality team on a low price.

If you open that up further to 45,000, it makes things comfortable. More than 45,000 and I think the salary cap has little to no impact.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2019 on: October 24, 2011, 06:02:01 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm finding 41,000 to 43,000 to offer the best ranges for building a quality team on a low price.

If you open that up further to 45,000, it makes things comfortable. More than 45,000 and I think the salary cap has little to no impact.
At 42k a player from the MVP tier would take up 30% of your space.

Perhaps the most interesting part of this draft would be the players who wouldn't be drafted due to their poor cost to ability.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2020 on: October 24, 2011, 06:06:06 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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An MVP caliber player is worth more than 25% more than an all-nba player, and much more than 56% more than an all-star.
Says who? Miami had 2 MVP caliber players last year and came in second. Dallas had zero and won it all. The year before Boston had zero and came in second by one really bad half in a game 7.

I'm not sure Miami having Dwade+LeBron and coming in second in the entire league really means anything to help or hurt Fafnir's statement.

Think I'm sitting this one out though if we're gonna do auction-style.
Well if MVP caliber players are worth so much why is it an MVP hasn't won a title in the year they won the MVP since.....when. I'm not even sure. When it comes to overall quality of team, winning and losing, MVP caliber players aren't worth that much more than All-NBA players.

2009-2010 Cavaliers: 61-21
2010-2011 Cavaliers: 19-23

Personnel Differences: No Shaq (53 games), No Mo Williams (Baron Davis matched performances as well), less Andersen Varejao. No LeBron James

Wins differences: 42 Games.

LeBron James = more than 25 wins a year in actuality.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2021 on: October 24, 2011, 06:33:38 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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LET. US. DRAFT

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2022 on: October 24, 2011, 06:42:23 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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An MVP caliber player is worth more than 25% more than an all-nba player, and much more than 56% more than an all-star.
Says who? Miami had 2 MVP caliber players last year and came in second. Dallas had zero and won it all. The year before Boston had zero and came in second by one really bad half in a game 7.

Hey, we are trying to deal with arbitrary and simple numbers not exact numbers. Let's not try to make this too complicated.

If we have to satisfy your idea of mathematical value ratios we can always increase the MVP scale to $13000 or $13500.
Well since I said it Nick, I guess says me. Miami was in the Finals and they lost in six. They did pretty well, despite lacking much quality depth.

Again according to this system LeBron is only worth twice as much as Mario Chalmers, Correy Maggete, and Vince Carter according to your value chart. In the actual NBA LeBron is worth what 20 to 25 wins for his team? The other guys might be worth 5, (if you think they have a positive net impact at all looking at you Maggette!)

I was giving my opinion that you've set the values of the MVP caliber players too low. As Who has said the cap wouldn't change things for the first 5 to 7 rounds from the looks of it. If you want to make a game fun, it should have interesting choices involved, right now the values are such that getting an MVP doesn't inhibt building your team at all.

Rather your draft position will still dominate everything, just like our normal drafts.

Edit: A max salary player (20 million) in the current CBA can take up around 30-35% of his team's cap. Do we want that an MVP's cap number to be less than that by that much?
Obviously there are players that will be in the system that are over valued and under valued. So you took the best player in the game and compared him to the most overvalued to make your point.

Is Derrick Rose worth 25% more than Dirk Nowitzski, or Chris Paul, or Deron Williams or Pau Gasol, or Amare? Is he worth 50 something percent more than KG, or Manu, or Zach Randolph, or Blake Griffin or even Rondo?

It works both ways. There will be bargains and busts at all value scales but you have to have some criteria.

And as I said this is a work in progress and we can lower the salary cap which I already said is a good idea. I think you are right though that looking at who will and won't be drafted because of price would be interesting and would become more interesting and fun if you really have to sharpen the pencil.

I think ultimately you want it fun but at the same time not super difficult. $42,000 in my opinion would be to low. $45-47K would be best if there are 20 owners then we wouldn't have most teams made up of tons low level starters and bench guys and one great player. Teams at the end of the draft could get two great players and still be able to afford a bench.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2023 on: October 24, 2011, 06:45:31 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Remember that even though a $20 million player can take up 30% of your cap in the current CBA, the current CBA allows you to go over the cap. This won't. There's a huge difference there.

Re: 2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings
« Reply #2024 on: October 24, 2011, 07:40:20 PM »

Offline Redz

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A straight auction with a set cap yields interesting results as well.
Yup