2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[The Walker Wiggle]

PG Ricky Rubio
SG J.J. Redick/ Thabo Sefolosha
SF Danilo Gallinari
PF Blake Griffin/Channing Frye
C Kevin Garnett

I still hate the Griffin/Garnett/Frye troika.

Probably because they'll eat Duncan, Monroe and Arthur's lunches. I did like the Arthur pick up though. He's underrated getting so few minutes in Memphis.

[Lucky17]

[edit, wrong thread]

[KCattheStripe]

PG Ricky Rubio
SG J.J. Redick/ Thabo Sefolosha
SF Danilo Gallinari
PF Blake Griffin/Channing Frye
C Kevin Garnett

I still hate the Griffin/Garnett/Frye troika.

Probably because they'll eat Duncan, Monroe and Arthur's lunches. I did like the Arthur pick up though. He's underrated getting so few minutes in Memphis.

Griffin's athleticism is a problem, but I'm not too worried about KG or Frye.

[The Walker Wiggle]

Lowry/Sessions
Harden/Garcia
Delfino/Derrick Williams
Amar'e/Derrick Williams
Bogut/Splitter

FTW.

Stoudemire and Bogut BOTH average 66 games a season - a little unnerving, huh? - and have recently left their respective playoff teams (10-11 Knicks and 09-10 Bucks) in the lurch. Give me your best 82 game Yao Ming argument.

[action781]

From the other thread:

Ray was 15th in the NBA in assist per game for all SG, but he plays a high # of minutes and he is only 26th at SG in AP48M (among qualified players).  Players like Kevin Martin, Ronnie Brewer, Ben Gordon were all ahead of him there.  None of whom I think are particularly good passers.

If you're going to use per minute statistics do it right and use pace adjusted stats. The Celtics play a very slow game of basketball.

Kevin Martin and Ben Gordon both are behind Ray Allen when you do that, though Ronnie Brewer stays ahead.

Another player that Ray Allen gets more assists on a per possession basis, Kobe Bryant. Is he a well rounded shooting guard?

Could you link me to that?  Because Kobe almost doubled Ray's assists per game last season in about the same number of minutes.  So that would mean that the Lakers had twice as many possessions as the Celts...

Link

I was referring to the assist ratio statistic. Basically Kobe uses the ball a heck of a lot more than Ray so he gets way more assists. But when you look at the percentage of their possessions ending in a shot, free throw, turnover, or assist then Ray Allen has a slightly higher assist ratio.

Now does that mean Ray Allen is a better "play maker" than Kobe? Heck no, but I'm just trying to demonstrate that for his role on the C's Ray Allen gets his fair share of assists.

OK... I'm not exactly sure what the relevance of this statistic is though.  I mean you're citing a statistic that shows that somebody who you admit is a superior playmaker finishes below an inferior playmaker.  Also, guys like Keith Bogans and Thabo Sefalosha are in the top 15 of that statistic for SG.  To me, I judge how good of a passer a player is by watching the player.  Usually, those good passes will translate to assists, which can serve as hard evidence to backup those judgements.  But the order of these players in this stat don't pass the eye test, so I don't find this stat to be helpful in declaring a player a "good passer" or not.  If you still insist that the statistic is relevant, then Ray Allen finishing 37th among SG shows that Ray is a relatively good passer?

But, I will agree with your earlier comment that pace adjusted assists per 48 minutes would probably be the best stat to use.  I don't know how to access that stat.

But if you want to say Ray Allen is a good passer, then fine.  I don't, that's all.  As I mentioned already, I think judging a player's passing is fairly subjective anyways, so it can be a disagreeable point.  Especially where he is close enough on the border, that if anybody was absolutely hell-bent on taking one side over the other and not allowing somebody to think otherwise, that is the only person I'd consider really wrong.

[Edgar]

El Salvadors Crotor kung Fu Pandas, "We believe we can fly"

*with a little twist  Shaq recomends

PG  Deron Williams, Juan Jose Barea
SG  Monta Ellis, Traci McGrady
SF  Wilson Chandler, Ryan Gomes
PF  Nick Collison, Antawn Jamison
C   Elton Brand, Kwame Brown

[StartOrien]

Think the commissioner, whose doing a heckuva job, deserves a little more feedback on his team.

[Fafnir]

From the other thread:

Ray was 15th in the NBA in assist per game for all SG, but he plays a high # of minutes and he is only 26th at SG in AP48M (among qualified players).  Players like Kevin Martin, Ronnie Brewer, Ben Gordon were all ahead of him there.  None of whom I think are particularly good passers.

If you're going to use per minute statistics do it right and use pace adjusted stats. The Celtics play a very slow game of basketball.

Kevin Martin and Ben Gordon both are behind Ray Allen when you do that, though Ronnie Brewer stays ahead.

Another player that Ray Allen gets more assists on a per possession basis, Kobe Bryant. Is he a well rounded shooting guard?

Could you link me to that?  Because Kobe almost doubled Ray's assists per game last season in about the same number of minutes.  So that would mean that the Lakers had twice as many possessions as the Celts...

Link

I was referring to the assist ratio statistic. Basically Kobe uses the ball a heck of a lot more than Ray so he gets way more assists. But when you look at the percentage of their possessions ending in a shot, free throw, turnover, or assist then Ray Allen has a slightly higher assist ratio.

Now does that mean Ray Allen is a better "play maker" than Kobe? Heck no, but I'm just trying to demonstrate that for his role on the C's Ray Allen gets his fair share of assists.

OK... I'm not exactly sure what the relevance of this statistic is though.  I mean you're citing a statistic that shows that somebody who you admit is a superior playmaker finishes below an inferior playmaker.  Also, guys like Keith Bogans and Thabo Sefalosha are in the top 15 of that statistic for SG.  To me, I judge how good of a passer a player is by watching the player.  Usually, those good passes will translate to assists, which can serve as hard evidence to backup those judgements.  But the order of these players in this stat don't pass the eye test, so I don't find this stat to be helpful in declaring a player a "good passer" or not.  If you still insist that the statistic is relevant, then Ray Allen finishing 37th among SG shows that Ray is a relatively good passer?

The purpose is to show how often when a player uses a possession it ends with an assist. So what I'm trying to show you is that Ray Allen isn't a ball stopper or bad passer, he's not one dimensional.

As to your response and the passage I highlighted. Well if a stat doesn't confirm your previously held opinion what good is it? Always nice to see GMs in full attack mode.

[indeedproceed]

But what do you think of his prospects?

Honestly the pragmatist in me says that Rubio will be very ordinary. Like a bigger, more slow-footed early Jason Williams. Between the debacle that was Spanoulis and JCN, and the debacle that has become ____ _______ I have become very wary of these European imports succeeding at the NBA level in anything but an average fashion at first.

That said, the fan in me just doesn't know. There is no point in dismissing the apprehension out of hand; a point guard who couldn't score that well in Europe isn't going to score that well here, at least at first, especially if he already lacks a 3pt jumpshot coming in (not that he couldn't learn it).

However, I try to remain optimistic with Rubio. I do think that American writers are in a hurry to clobber on him because of all the hype he received, much in the same way writers are writing off Greg Oden and comparing him to Sam Bowie, without acknowleding the serviceable career Bowie enjoyed later on his years. People like to write about how bad something is when that bad thing is greater in contrast to the 'good story'.

But I really wonder how good he can be in an immediate capacity. He's not a lights out athlete, and he's not a 'star' at age 20, so I think we can safely put ideas of an all-star appearance to rest in 2012, but that doesn't mean he can't be a serviceable point guard.

I just wonder if he'll be a serviceable starting point guard.


P.S. And I just saw the Bogut/Stat question. Hell hath no fury like a Wiggle Waggled, eh?

[action781]

As to your response and the passage I highlighted. Well if a stat doesn't confirm your previously held opinion what good is it? Always nice to see GMs in full attack mode.

Haha, I like it.  En garde!

[The Walker Wiggle]

As to your response and the passage I highlighted. Well if a stat doesn't confirm your previously held opinion what good is it? Always nice to see GMs in full attack mode.

Haha, I like it.  En garde!

Trademarked.

You'll be receiving a letter from Cleveland's attorneys, Action.

[Fafnir]

As to your response and the passage I highlighted. Well if a stat doesn't confirm your previously held opinion what good is it? Always nice to see GMs in full attack mode.

Haha, I like it.  En garde!

Yeah its that time, everyone has their agenda so time to draw back and just look at each team on its own.

Save the detailed scrapping and questions for playoffs and regular season pressers.

[indeedproceed]

Lowry/Sessions
Harden/Garcia
Delfino/Derrick Williams
Amar'e/Derrick Williams
Bogut/Splitter

FTW.

Stoudemire and Bogut BOTH average 66 games a season - a little unnerving, huh? - and have recently left their respective playoff teams (10-11 Knicks and 09-10 Bucks) in the lurch. Give me your best 82 game Yao Ming argument.

haha. Well, I have no illusions that either player will be healthy all year. That's like expecting Kevin Garnett to hold up for more than 72 games in the regular season next year..and I mean, he hasn't done that in over 4 years!

But, I've got good depth, and I hope to get better depth. Tiago Splitter is a more than capable fill in for 10 games or so at either position, and Derrick Williams can play the 4 or even start there if its a necessity. I'm going to need to continue to add more players, but all I can do is hope for the best.

A note on Bogut/Stat though. Bogut's injury was a traumatic one. As late as March or something he was still mumbling stuff about 80% healed. A full year and a half+ removed from the gruesome injury should put that to rest.

Stat was ridden too hard by D'Antoni too. NY didn't have a decent backup center, let alone 2 of them so STAT could play his more natural PF position for the majority of the game. He took more punishment than he ought to for longer per game than he should, and it resulted in a back injury that crippled him for the last few games of the playoffs.

That first game though he was the best player on the court, facing off against the best PF defender in the world. He shot a cool 67% and got 11 boards. If I moderate his minutes smartly, keep him from exhaustion on a nightly basis, and pay attention when his body gets a boo-boo, I think I can coax more of that kind of production from him in the playoffs next season.

[TheTruthFot18]

Lowry/Sessions
Harden/Garcia
Delfino/Derrick Williams
Amar'e/Derrick Williams
Bogut/Splitter

FTW.

I really don't know what to make of Carlos Delfino.

Other than that, I really love your team. I seem to be in limited company, but I think you've got a good shot at winning it all, IP.

Despite STAT's lack of D and Bogut's injury history, I really like that pf/c combo, one of the best here. Sessions is a solid backup pg that was on my list, surprised he slipped as far as he did. Other then that I'm not sold on a whole lot: For sure not sold on harden and delfino as starters. I still see harden as a solid 6th man at least until he develops a little more. Also it will be interesting to see how D Williams develops in Minny either behind Beasley or if they ship him out as their starter.

IDK about taking it all but last time I checked you were on top of your division and top 2-3 of the west.

[indeedproceed]

Lowry/Sessions
Harden/Garcia
Delfino/Derrick Williams
Amar'e/Derrick Williams
Bogut/Splitter

FTW.

I really don't know what to make of Carlos Delfino.

Other than that, I really love your team. I seem to be in limited company, but I think you've got a good shot at winning it all, IP.

Despite STAT's lack of D and Bogut's injury history, I really like that pf/c combo, one of the best here. Sessions is a solid backup pg that was on my list, surprised he slipped as far as he did. Other then that I'm not sold on a whole lot: For sure not sold on harden and delfino as starters. I still see harden as a solid 6th man at least until he develops a little more. Also it will be interesting to see how D Williams develops in Minny either behind Beasley or if they ship him out as their starter.

IDK about taking it all but last time I checked you were on top of your division and top 2-3 of the west.

Don't feel bad...Carlos Delfino is an acquired taste. All-hustle, solid 3pt shooter, very good defender, and a jack of all trades everywhere else. I'd compare him to a more defensively skilled but worse rebounding Landry Fields. Expect 38% from deep, smart basketball decisions, and good to great defense.