Minnesota & David Kahn

[Fafnir]

But when Danny Ainge had a situation much like Kahn's team, Minnesota, has this year, an extremely young team with questionable talent and few roster spots, Danny Ainge didn't select more young players and stockpile future picks. He cashed them in along with his questionable young talent and landed Ray Allen, Glen Davis, and Kevin Garnett.

And given the similarities between the 2006 and 2007 Celtics and the 2010 and 2011 Timberwolves(#2 pick/#5 pick high draft picks, Love/Jefferson young big man, Rubio/Rondo young PG asset, slew of other mediocre talent, horrible records) I believe Kahn failed his team because he could have followed what looked to be a winning formula and made bigger trades. I think all he has done is cause his team to once again have one of the 5 worst records in the league for fifth year in a row.

Come on, nick.  What veterans were the Twolves going to land that would have immediately launched them into contention?  Danny's assets (which he developed, to his credit) included an existing perennial all-star, a lottery pick, and a young big man with all-star potential.  Danny also had those assets when multiple perennial all-stars were on the market.

The Twolves have the lottery pick and the young big man, but they don't have the established star.  There's no equivalent to Paul Pierce on their roster.  Similarly, there's no equivalent to KG and Ray Allen on the market.

That being the case, Kahn has to follow Danny's strategy:  acquire "chips", while developing some young talent, before cashing that talent in for a championship.  It's only because Danny was successful in stage 1 of his plan that he was able to transition to stage 2.

Also, regarding Brad Miller, he just had microfracture surgery; insurance is going to pay for most, if not all, of his salary, which is another huge chunk of savings.

The real difference is that Danny had Paul Pierce; an elite player to try and build a contender with by trading assets.

Without a player of that caliber he can't exactly cash in for veterans to try and win now.

[nickagneta]

So, apparently Minnesota wasn't very forthcoming in disclosing a hip injury that Jonny Flynn has and Houston and the league were going to rescind the trade that set in motion all the other trades made by David Kahn on draft day. So to make the trade go through Minnesota had to give Houston their 2012 2nd round pick, a very valuable pick just out of the first round without contract guarantees. Of course that is based on the Timberpuppies sucking another year, which they will.

Dealing a player without disclosing an injury and then having to give up a valuable 2nd round pick to make things right.

Buying a draft pick to pick a guy that is ineligible to be selected because he's too old.

Can we just start calling these things "pulling a Kahn"?

[Cman]

Can we just start calling these things "pulling a Kahn"?

There's another word for it already "inKahnpotence"


More seriously, Kahn has clearly done a bunch of bone headed things while GM.  But I maintain that the following trade (which started off the topic) was a good one:

-Minnesota receives: Brad Miller, 23rd pick and 38th pick  in 2011 draft, future first-round pick
-Houston receives: Jonny Flynn, 20th pick in 2011 draft

The trades that followed (and how the picks were used), clearly not so good.  But I guess this all goes to provide some proof to the old adage that "even a broken clock is right twice a day."

[nickagneta]

But I maintain that the following trade (which started off the topic) was a good one:

-Minnesota receives: Brad Miller, 23rd pick and 38th pick  in 2011 draft, future first-round pick
-Houston receives: Jonny Flynn, 20th pick in 2011 draft

Don't forget that trade now includes the Minnesota 2012 2nd round pick going to the Rockets.

[wiley]

i would just say that most teams who try to do what the Celtics did, suddenly trade a high draft pick and a player who looks like the future, for aged stars in order to compete, will fail and end up in mediocrity.  Or make the playoffs but never win a title.  There is no blueprint.  The Celtics did it their way, but it might not happen that way again.  Oklahoma and Memphis have done it (become relevant) by sticking with their young guys and adding the right vet role players, Miami's glue guys are about mid career, etc etc....

There's no formula.  Danny recognized that Pierce's ability plus Garnett's defense and leadership, along with one of the game's best shooters ever, were at the point where they would probably succeed due to the above-mentioned talent, hunger for a title and maturity.  But they still had to go out and actually sacrifice and do it, which they did brilliantly.  There was no guarantee.

I generally like Tommy's approach, which is that you need a mix of vets and young players who push and pull each other.....(by the way, the Celtics need some major pushing this year and possibly/hopefully the year after...)

Bottom line:  no one knows what the Celtics next road to contention (post big 3) will look like.

edit:  regarding Minny's loss of a high second rounder next year.  That hurts a lot.  And I'd bet they'd undo the deal to get it back....though I don't know that...

[Fafnir]

Miami also won with Shaq/Wade by trading away young talent for a veteran.

The key is if you are trading for veterans you better make sure you have an all-nba big man (or another MVP level talent).

Those sort of trades only come up so often.

[wiley]

Miami also won with Shaq/Wade by trading away young talent for a veteran.

The key is if you are trading for veterans you better make sure you have an all-nba big man (or another MVP level talent).

Those sort of trades only come up so often.

good example.  That was a brave move just as Danny's was.  Odom and Butler was a lot of young talent to say goodbye to and it worked...

Interesting:  Wade, Shaq, KG, Pierce and Allen.....maybe the formula only works with hall of famers..

[Cman]

But I maintain that the following trade (which started off the topic) was a good one:

-Minnesota receives: Brad Miller, 23rd pick and 38th pick  in 2011 draft, future first-round pick
-Houston receives: Jonny Flynn, 20th pick in 2011 draft

Don't forget that trade now includes the Minnesota 2012 2nd round pick going to the Rockets.

No I haven't forgotten.  I think there is no question that the following is a *bad* trade:

-Minnesota receives: Brad Miller, 23rd pick and 38th pick  in 2011 draft, future first-round pick
-Houston receives: Jonny Flynn, 20th pick in 2011 draft, Minnesota 2012 2nd round pick