this was supposed to be our year

[PosImpos]

The Trade killed the team - took away our identity and toughness and damaged offensive rhythm - destroyed the team chemistry and togetherness and group motivation. those guys played for each other, moreso than any Celtic group since Cowens' and Russell's teams.

intangibles, intangibles, intangibles.

Danny was thinking like a Laker instead of like a Celtic. he tried to be progressive when he should have stuck to tradition.

I think this is a nice enough narrative, but it's been invented because it's more interesting and controversial to blame the trade.  This team lives and dies by its Big 4, and they did not change.  There can be no doubt that the trade disrupted chemistry, but at the end of the day our stars are professionals and they've been through it before.  If they had what it took to win when it came down to it, they would have. 

I think the trade was made in the first place because Danny felt the team wasn't going to have enough (in the present or the future).  Turns out he was right, but the trade didn't do enough to help.

let me put it this way then:


whether we would have ended up winning the title or not, is there any doubt that the Celtics were a better team pre-trade than post-trade ?

I would agree that they were, but I would disagree with your implication that it was the trade that made the team worse.  Post hoc ergo propter hoc is bad logic.

In other words, I think this team was due for a slide in the second half of the season due to age and injuries whether the trade was made or not.

[chambers]

how would the trade have changed the Miami series?

The Heat peaked at the perfect time. Lebron and Wade hit some incredible shots- the shots we forced them to take and wanted them to take. They just hit them.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is when their offense is 1 percent better.

The fact is, it wasn't our year.
With those 4 players that we have, we had enough guys around them to get the job done- and who'd done the job before.(Davis, JO). But unfortunately we didn't peak at the right time and Miami's steamtrain picked up full speed against us.

It's called bad luck and overall excellent +lucky timing for the Heat who worked out their offense just in time for the Celtics series.

[17wasEZ]

The Trade killed the team - took away our identity and toughness and damaged offensive rhythm - destroyed the team chemistry and togetherness and group motivation. those guys played for each other, moreso than any Celtic group since Cowens' and Russell's teams.

intangibles, intangibles, intangibles.

Danny was thinking like a Laker instead of like a Celtic. he tried to be progressive when he should have stuck to tradition.

I think this is a nice enough narrative, but it's been invented because it's more interesting and controversial to blame the trade.  This team lives and dies by its Big 4, and they did not change.  There can be no doubt that the trade disrupted chemistry, but at the end of the day our stars are professionals and they've been through it before.  If they had what it took to win when it came down to it, they would have. 

I think the trade was made in the first place because Danny felt the team wasn't going to have enough (in the present or the future).  Turns out he was right, but the trade didn't do enough to help.

let me put it this way then:


whether we would have ended up winning the title or not, is there any doubt that the Celtics were a better team pre-trade than post-trade ?

I would agree that they were, but I would disagree with your implication that it was the trade that made the team worse.  Post hoc ergo propter hoc is bad logic.

In other words, I think this team was due for a slide in the second half of the season due to age and injuries whether the trade was made or not.

I'll go a step further.  Perk was just coming back from injury when he injured his other knee.  So, with two knees injured, how did that make him a difference maker?  He wasn't a difference maker against Dallas as he was rendered useless on both sides of the floor.  As a matter of fact, he played lousy throughout most of the playoffs.

Perk pre-knee injuries was a difference maker.  Perk post knee injuries was just another player who was asking for too much money to stick around.

The people who were judging the Celtics as the team to beat were expecting a healthy Shaq for their playoff run and a healthy Marquis as the back-up wing.  NO ONE would have had the Celtics as favorites to win the title if they were told:

1. Shaq and Marquis would be out for effectively the last 3 months of the season, and;
2. Rondo would be injured in the 2nd round.

Rondo's injury guaranteed the title wouldn't be coming to Boston anyway.

[greenpride32]

let me put it this way then:

whether we would have ended up winning the title or not, is there any doubt that the Celtics were a better team pre-trade than post-trade ?

The C's were a better team pre-trade because of the performance of Shaq and to a lesser extent Marquis off the bench.  We lost both of these guys which had nothing to do with the trade.  The two players who departed in the trade were both injured; one was out most of the year, the other was basically benched.  I can quantify Shaq's impact by saying the team went 20-4 when he played 20+ minutes.  I forget the overall record for all games he appeared in but it was around 29-9. 

[mcshane41]

To think it wouldn't have happened if Danny had lured Corey Brewer from Minnesota, but he got included in the Melo deal.

Could that have been it? The defending wing we needed to replace Tony Allen and help keep Miami's scorers in check? Keep  the team in place keep chemistry up. And boy would we have been deep when Perk & JO out there banging.

I can totally see the Perkins trade ruined us point of view, but we would have had to land a defending wing like Brewer. It didn't happen and I still believe the next best option was to add a piece for the future instead of watching Perk walk in FA.

There it is, my theory: It's all Corey Brewers fault!

[BballTim]

how would the trade have changed the Miami series?

The Heat peaked at the perfect time. Lebron and Wade hit some incredible shots- the shots we forced them to take and wanted them to take. They just hit them.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is when their offense is 1 percent better.

The fact is, it wasn't our year.
With those 4 players that we have, we had enough guys around them to get the job done- and who'd done the job before.(Davis, JO). But unfortunately we didn't peak at the right time and Miami's steamtrain picked up full speed against us.

It's called bad luck and overall excellent +lucky timing for the Heat who worked out their offense just in time for the Celtics series.

  Losing to the Heat had much more to do with Rondo's elbow and JO's wrist than the Heat peaking.

[Fafnir]

how would the trade have changed the Miami series?

The Heat peaked at the perfect time. Lebron and Wade hit some incredible shots- the shots we forced them to take and wanted them to take. They just hit them.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is when their offense is 1 percent better.

The fact is, it wasn't our year.
With those 4 players that we have, we had enough guys around them to get the job done- and who'd done the job before.(Davis, JO). But unfortunately we didn't peak at the right time and Miami's steamtrain picked up full speed against us.

It's called bad luck and overall excellent +lucky timing for the Heat who worked out their offense just in time for the Celtics series.

  Losing to the Heat had much more to do with Rondo's elbow and JO's wrist than the Heat peaking.

The Heat also made some big shots. They Heat were always the C's biggest threat and vice versa. The injuries just pushed a close series to one that was over far too soon.

[Bahku]

Hmmm ... I just heard that next year is supposed to be our year.

[PaulPierce34G]

No reason not to think that Boston could have appeared in, if not won, the last four NBA Finals...but it is what it is, no use crying over spilled milk.  Things happen, players get hurt, teams like Miami click at the exact, right time, when they had struggled for the bulk of the regular season against Boston.  It's always fun to wonder what if, though.

[PortCelt]

how would the trade have changed the Miami series?

The Heat peaked at the perfect time. Lebron and Wade hit some incredible shots- the shots we forced them to take and wanted them to take. They just hit them.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is when their offense is 1 percent better.

The fact is, it wasn't our year.
With those 4 players that we have, we had enough guys around them to get the job done- and who'd done the job before.(Davis, JO). But unfortunately we didn't peak at the right time and Miami's steamtrain picked up full speed against us.

It's called bad luck and overall excellent +lucky timing for the Heat who worked out their offense just in time for the Celtics series.

  Losing to the Heat had much more to do with Rondo's elbow and JO's wrist than the Heat peaking.

Maybe a healthy RR would have made a difference, but there's has to be credence given to the lack of a consistent scorer, other than PP, who can space the floor and create his own shot. Too many offensive droughts and not enough rebounding have plagued this team since the 09'-10' Finals. They need more energy and athleticism off the bench to make up for the starters wilting down stretch, and all the down screens and high picks from Perk would not have changed the outcome. 

[EDWARDO]

how would the trade have changed the Miami series?

The Heat peaked at the perfect time. Lebron and Wade hit some incredible shots- the shots we forced them to take and wanted them to take. They just hit them.

It doesn't matter how good your defense is when their offense is 1 percent better.

The fact is, it wasn't our year.
With those 4 players that we have, we had enough guys around them to get the job done- and who'd done the job before.(Davis, JO). But unfortunately we didn't peak at the right time and Miami's steamtrain picked up full speed against us.

It's called bad luck and overall excellent +lucky timing for the Heat who worked out their offense just in time for the Celtics series.

  Losing to the Heat had much more to do with Rondo's elbow and JO's wrist than the Heat peaking.

Maybe a healthy RR would have made a difference, but there's has to be credence given to the lack of a consistent scorer, other than PP, who can space the floor and create his own shot. Too many offensive droughts and not enough rebounding have plagued this team since the 09'-10' Finals. They need more energy and athleticism off the bench to make up for the starters wilting down stretch, and all the down screens and high picks from Perk would not have changed the outcome. 

That's exactly why we needed Perk!!! We could just iso him on the wing and watch him break down Joel Anthony on dribble penetration or drive and dish for wide open jumpers.

In all seriousness, I think Rondo's elbow was big, but even bigger was Baby's backslide from 6th man of the year to useless tub of junk. Someone said he'd only play well in a contract year and, ironically, the exact opposite happened. This was his year to lock in a 4yr/$20mm deal with someone if he'd played as well as he did last year.  He cost himself $10mm over the next few years AND was a huge factor in blowing a title shot for us.

As for Perk, after watching him limp around like 1988 Artis Gilmore, its hard to see how anyone would conclude we were better off with him than without him. If we'd lost to the Magic and Howard had put up 35 and 15 every game, you might have a case. But it seems like there's a vocal 10% of this board that thinks the 22 minutes of his limping toughness would have made a difference against the Heat. Then again, there's apparently 10% of this board that thinks that Rondo is better than Rose and that he'd be an excellent player coach (?!). For the rest of us on planet Earth, the sky is blue, the grass is green, and Perkins wasn't going to help us win that series.

[mostofusrsad]

I think it would have been "our year" if the team we saw at the beginning of the season could have played in the playoffs with a healthy Perkins or JO. 

In other words, it wasn't really the trade that derailed our status as the "favorite"; it was age and injuries.

yup age and injuries...those two go hand in hand...we need to get young and atheletic or forget about winning again.

[celtics2]

forget about the Perkins deal. It's used as a crutch. The age of the Big 3 and Rondo's injuries did us in. We rolled the dice and lost. Now it's going to take some time to even sniff the Finals. It was a worthwhile run. Can't have it all all the time. There's like 5 teams better than us right now. Everyone on the team should be on the table for a trade. It's not about individuals, but the team. What's best for us. Lots of teams would be interested in 4 of our players. Lets see what we can get. I never bought in to this is our year. Not with 3 moving toward the AARP of basketball and one that can't shoot. Riley's no dummy, he has a team that will be around for awhile.

[mostofusrsad]

forget about the Perkins deal. It's used as a crutch. The age of the Big 3 and Rondo's injuries did us in. We rolled the dice and lost. Now it's going to take some time to even sniff the Finals. It was a worthwhile run. Can't have it all all the time. There's like 5 teams better than us right now. Everyone on the team should be on the table for a trade. It's not about individuals, but the team. What's best for us. Lots of teams would be interested in 4 of our players. Lets see what we can get. I never bought in to this is our year. Not with 3 moving toward the AARP of basketball and one that can't shoot. Riley's no dummy, he has a team that will be around for awhile.

well said, i don't think most fans want to believe that it is over with this current group but it definitely is!

[GreenEnvy]

2008 was supposed to be our year. We stayed healthy and hungry enough to win it all. It was our year.

2009 we looked even stronger despite losing Posey. Rondo took it to the next level and the Big Three looked even more comfortable together. 29-2 with no signs of slowing down. Then the injury happened. It was supposed to be our repeat. It was a thrilling first round series and an embarrassing G7 loss at home to the Magic.

2010 we reloaded. We were healthy again. We use out MLE on a championship-experienced 'Sheed and brought in 'Quis for cheap. Both underperform, and the nagging injuries pile up. Several months later we are a game away from hoisting Banner 18. Injuries and fatigue deprive us of that.

This season, for the majority of the season, without Perkins, we were the best team in the league, despite the gaudy record of SAS or the point-differential of MIA. We were big, we were balanced, we were hungry. Then Shaq goes down. 'Quis follows. And then "the trade." We struggle down the stretch, but not that unusual for any of our teams as we prepare for the second season. But Shaq never came back. Then Rondo gets hurt. The trade was more an excuse than the actual reason. We got size back. We got a premier backup SF/PF. Team morale and cohesiveness may have been damaged, but we were more talented post-trade than pre-.