Tim Donaghy accuses JVG of betting on the Heat based on inside info

[Eja117]

Verifiably false from pundits and apologists...But completely obvious to anybody who objectively watches.....Whether in retrospect or in the present.

No Finkle they're false by people who actually go back and look at the data we have, the spreads, the rules Donaghy claims "work", and the outcomes of the games.

But that doesn't conform to your worldview, so naturally the analysis they do can't be true. Did you even bother to read what I posted for you?

Do you really think you're more objective because you watched a few of the games mentioned (which you don't specify) than someone who rigorously went back and analyzed all the games certain refs officiated and their spreads.

Donaghy is a gambling adict, a convicted felon, and a liar why is he suddenly more credible than everyone else to you?

He's more credible than the nba because both the NBA and FBI came to the conclusion he was telling the truth when he said his reffing didn't affect outcomes of games, which is exactly why the mafia stopped dealing with him.

Also the mafia started dealing with him because he could pick games in the first place, not because he was wildly inconsistent.

He's easier to trust than the NBA who chose not to sue him for defamation, fraud or anything. Gee. I wonder why. I wonder if the NBA didn't want a parade of witnesses testifying about them.

Tim D made very very specific and very public allegations about the Kings/Lakers conference finals. He actually filed it in court. Not on twitter. So if it's wrong he's going to jail for perjury.  He named refs.  No counter suit by the NBA. None. Or the refs. None.  When I watched those games I couldn't believe what on Earth I was seeing. Kobe was allowed to literally punch Mike Bibby in the face. The coaches themselves remarked on the amazing free throw differential. This isn't my "world view". This is what happened.

So what's your world view Faf?  The NBA is an amazingly wonderful straight up organization that just happens to do their lottery behind closed doors and has such an image problem that they hire PriceWaterhouseCoopers to verify their claims? Maybe if Tim D does that it just goes away.

Faf I hope Tim D is self serving. Who should he serve? Who do you think PWC serves when they verify the NBA's "lottery"?  Who do you think the "NBA analysts" who analyzed Tim D's claims serve?

You also call him convicted. But he plead guilty. It's not like some jury listened to two versions of the story and chose the nba or something. He plead to wire tap and transmitting waging through interstate commerce.

But for such a liar how come he was never charged with perjury and never sued for defamation?  I mean if it's so proven it's a slam dunk right? I mean the guy has written a whole book now. Still nothing. Silence is his vindication.

Also a major problem here in the NBA's attitude. Even casual fans know several nba refs by name now and you just roll your eyes when you hear them and those are the guys officiating big games.  This isn't my world view. 

Just a few months ago Stern said "I know where the bodies are buried. I buried a few myself"  Who says that? 

You can hate Jose and Tim for betting or cheating, but not for telling the truth.

[Steve Weinman]

LeBron has fouled out of games (only three though):

http://bkref.com/tiny/Vc0A4

Once every 2.6666 seasons.  1.8 fouls per game over 8 seasons.

LOL. 

And we're debating the credibility of NBA officiating?

I can't fathom why.

That's two more career disqualifications than Paul Pierce has to his record.

-sw

  PP has fouled out of 8 games since LeBron came into the league. He had 5 or more fouls 73 times compared to 19 for LeBron.

Oy vey - apparently, I am incapable of using B-R's game finder correctly today.  I stand corrected - thanks for catching this, Tim.

Will remove my earlier post.

-sw

[BballTim]

LeBron has fouled out of games (only three though):

http://bkref.com/tiny/Vc0A4

Once every 2.6666 seasons.  1.8 fouls per game over 8 seasons.

LOL. 

And we're debating the credibility of NBA officiating?

I can't fathom why.

That's two more career disqualifications than Paul Pierce has to his record.

-sw

  PP has fouled out of 8 games since LeBron came into the league. He had 5 or more fouls 73 times compared to 19 for LeBron.

Oy vey - apparently, I am incapable of using B-R's game finder correctly today.  I stand corrected - thanks for catching this, Tim.

Will remove my earlier post.

-sw

  On the plus side, I haven't used the game finder much, looks interesting.

[ThaPreacher]

I'm not gonna talk about Donaghy but I read here that Lebron has NEVER fouled out? How in the hell is that even possible given the minutes he has played in his career? That means LeBron is the greatest defensive player ever! You gotta be kidding me, I don't care if he is the quickest man on the court at all times and his hand is glued to the ball, how is it possible in all those minutes played you have never fouled out? I know the guy is good but is he Patric Swayze (spl?) in Ghost... doesn't touch you but hits you? Is LeBron the first in history who has not fouled out who plays as much?

I don't believe Wilt ever fouled out of a game.

No but he took himself out of a few!  And Russell took him out of a few more!!

[Finkelskyhook]

Comparing Pierce to the messiah is an apples to orange comparison.  What they have in common is that their foul totals are both absurdly low.

If Pierce was being officiated correctly on the upfake/offensive foul call that only he gets....And didn't take corrective action, his fouls per game would go up by at least two.  His free throws per game would drop. 

The messiah, for the most part, is the most physical player on the court when he plays.  Chris makes a great point that a lot of the amazing defensive plays he makes are clean because of his freakishness.  But his pedestrian defense is very physical  But he also has the ball in his hands constantly and goes to the basket...with an occasional dribble..lol...with complete abandon.  He's also the main event when he's on the court.  Thus the absurdity of 1.8 fouls per game....As the center of attention, the absurdity of virtually never getting a traveling call. 

Wilt didn't have to foul.  He was the biggest and most athletic player of his time by far and until his career wound down, the only freak of his era. 

The messiah is the biggest athletic freak among a whole league of similar but less gifted freaks.  I would contend that the officials should have adjusted to the speed of the game a long ago.  The game is almost as fast in the NBDL.  Yet either from the third row or in front of the TV the "developmental" officials rarely miss calls. 

Since the developmental officials call the game by the book and NBA officials clearly don't, Why don't we flip-flop them for a while?

[Finkelskyhook]

Verifiably false from pundits and apologists...But completely obvious to anybody who objectively watches.....Whether in retrospect or in the present.

No Finkle they're false by people who actually go back and look at the data we have, the spreads, the rules Donaghy claims "work", and the outcomes of the games.

But that doesn't conform to your worldview, so naturally the analysis they do can't be true. Did you even bother to read what I posted for you?

Do you really think you're more objective because you watched a few of the games mentioned (which you don't specify) than someone who rigorously went back and analyzed all the games certain refs officiated and their spreads.

Donaghy is a gambling adict, a convicted felon, and a liar why is he suddenly more credible than everyone else to you?

He's more credible than the nba because both the NBA and FBI came to the conclusion he was telling the truth when he said his reffing didn't affect outcomes of games, which is exactly why the mafia stopped dealing with him.

Also the mafia started dealing with him because he could pick games in the first place, not because he was wildly inconsistent.

He's easier to trust than the NBA who chose not to sue him for defamation, fraud or anything. Gee. I wonder why. I wonder if the NBA didn't want a parade of witnesses testifying about them.

Tim D made very very specific and very public allegations about the Kings/Lakers conference finals. He actually filed it in court. Not on twitter. So if it's wrong he's going to jail for perjury.  He named refs.  No counter suit by the NBA. None. Or the refs. None.  When I watched those games I couldn't believe what on Earth I was seeing. Kobe was allowed to literally punch Mike Bibby in the face. The coaches themselves remarked on the amazing free throw differential. This isn't my "world view". This is what happened.

So what's your world view Faf?  The NBA is an amazingly wonderful straight up organization that just happens to do their lottery behind closed doors and has such an image problem that they hire PriceWaterhouseCoopers to verify their claims? Maybe if Tim D does that it just goes away.

Faf I hope Tim D is self serving. Who should he serve? Who do you think PWC serves when they verify the NBA's "lottery"?  Who do you think the "NBA analysts" who analyzed Tim D's claims serve?

You also call him convicted. But he plead guilty. It's not like some jury listened to two versions of the story and chose the nba or something. He plead to wire tap and transmitting waging through interstate commerce.

But for such a liar how come he was never charged with perjury and never sued for defamation?  I mean if it's so proven it's a slam dunk right? I mean the guy has written a whole book now. Still nothing. Silence is his vindication.

Also a major problem here in the NBA's attitude. Even casual fans know several nba refs by name now and you just roll your eyes when you hear them and those are the guys officiating big games.  This isn't my world view.  

Just a few months ago Stern said "I know where the bodies are buried. I buried a few myself"  Who says that?  

You can hate Jose and Tim for betting or cheating, but not for telling the truth.

Phenominal post.

I'm not a Stern fan but it would be hard not to acknowledge his brilliance based on the growth of the NBA product.

I saw the Donaghy situation as the epitomy of a rock and a hard place.  Demonizing Donaghy lightly while not acknowledging the problem wasn't the best solution....It was the only solution.  By taking Donaghy on, you're putting your entire brand on the line.  You're putting every single official under intense scrutiny. Not to mention the fallacy of the lottery...  By using the tactic Stern did...The issue went away relatively fast and the brand wasn't affected at all to speak of.

As a result....Sadly...The same thing can and probably will happen again.  Stern created Donaghy with the Jordan Rules and Stern destroyed Donaghy.  Stern has brilliantly, by taking no action to speak of, has made Donaghy an island.  But labeling somebody a buffoon doesn't mean Donaghy is wrong.   Because it doesn't take Donaghy to point out the obvious of the present.  Anybody could have done the clip that Donaghy did....And many more.  The officials are simply too good to consistently miss the same calls.  That Jeff Van Gundy, a brilliant commentator, doesn't state the obvious violations when gushing about a play...Makes VanGundy look more like Jerry "The King" Lawler as a commentator.  

It also makes what Donaghy said compelling.  Whether it's true or not.