Tim Donaghy accuses JVG of betting on the Heat based on inside info

[Mr October]

Why is everybody so complicit?  

Maybe they are not complicit, maybe you are biased and refusing to see what is happening.  I know a huge percentage of the time when I think Lebron "clearly" fouled someone, they show the replay, and it is clear that he didn't in fact foul them, he just made what I thought was a nearly impossible basketball play.  

The guy is a freak, and he plays an incredibly clean game defensively.  His athleticism and length allow him to get to balls that no one else can get to.

I agree that Lebron is a freak, and the majority of what he does is totally legal.

As for complicity of the announcers, I recall that even up until 2 years ago you would hear these same ABC announcers point out when a ref missed a call. I also recall them showing more replays that included controversial calls.

Now almost every time i see something controversial, there is never a replay.

Or if there is a replay, and you see something clear that the refs missed, I do not hear an announcer say, "oh wow, looks like the officials missed one there."

I really don't like transparency being further removed.

If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?

[ACF]

Usually, any conversation with Finkelskyhook goes like this...

Finkelskyhook: Ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim
Poster A: But that's ridiculous and unsubstantiated! And here's a ton of evidence as to why...
Finkelskyhook: So what? Repeats claim....

I have to wonder at this point - for a game that you seem to hate so much, why do you continue to watch it? If there is such a big conspiracy, if everything is fixed, why do you continue to expound so much energy to talk about it?

You have so much dislike for almost every player in the league (ie. Steve Nash shouldn't criticize the government because he's rich in the country, or something) and the people that run the league. I'm just confused as to why you watch it.

Soap,  you may not agree with Finkelshook, but the fact that he knows who Hank Finkel is should be worth something. (Finkelshook, tell me your name is after High Henry Hank)

No need to publically discredit him.  /slaps Soap with Technical Foul, (free throws and loss of the coaches box).
There are alot of unsubstantiated claims on forums.  We are all Celtic Fans who need to bide our time until next season.
If you really don't agree with him message him, but no need to flame.

P.S.  The World Is Not Flat,,,,,I don't think.

A to the men.

[Finkelskyhook]

Usually, any conversation with Finkelskyhook goes like this...

Finkelskyhook: Ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim
Poster A: But that's ridiculous and unsubstantiated! And here's a ton of evidence as to why...
Finkelskyhook: So what? Repeats claim....

I have to wonder at this point - for a game that you seem to hate so much, why do you continue to watch it? If there is such a big conspiracy, if everything is fixed, why do you continue to expound so much energy to talk about it?

You have so much dislike for almost every player in the league (ie. Steve Nash shouldn't criticize the government because he's rich in the country, or something) and the people that run the league. I'm just confused as to why you watch it.

When we're talking about evidence from Donaghy's co-conspirators who served no time, how credible are they?  They rolled over.

Basketball's a game I've been watching for 45 years.  I love the game of basketball.  I've watched it evolve from a competition to a political exhibition.  I'm watching broadcasters who have been around the game as long as I have  ignore obvious things when it suits the template.  I guess you could say I'm among some in here hoping that someday it comes back around to being a competition.  

A person doesn't have to watch a game...They can watch highlights on Sportscenter and see obvious violations on virtually every highlight.  I guess I'd rather see Bird...Or Rondo...fire a thread-the-needle pass for a layup within the rules than watch a Wade palm pass to the messiah shuffling his feet before shooting.  

I want to see a real game.

On your unrelated subject Los Nash is a classless pompous fool who promotes lawlessness.....Los Nash palms the ball pretty much every time he touches it...ALA Iverson before him and Wade.

If everybody was officiated by the same rules, the messiah, Wade, Pierce, Bryant, Howard, Rose, and even Los Nash would do things within the rules on the court we've never seen before.  

Anymore, I mostly watch the Celtics.  

I just want to see a real game.  Sorry that offends you.
    

[Chris]

Why is everybody so complicit?  

Maybe they are not complicit, maybe you are biased and refusing to see what is happening.  I know a huge percentage of the time when I think Lebron "clearly" fouled someone, they show the replay, and it is clear that he didn't in fact foul them, he just made what I thought was a nearly impossible basketball play.  

The guy is a freak, and he plays an incredibly clean game defensively.  His athleticism and length allow him to get to balls that no one else can get to.

I agree that Lebron is a freak, and the majority of what he does is totally legal.

As for complicity of the announcers, I recall that even up until 2 years ago you would hear these same ABC announcers point out when a ref missed a call. I also recall them showing more replays that included controversial calls.

Now almost every time i see something controversial, there is never a replay.

Or if there is a replay, and you see something clear that the refs missed, I do not hear an announcer say, "oh wow, looks like the officials missed one there."

I really don't like transparency being further removed.

If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?

The difference is, now they are too busy talking about the fans in the stands, and discussing something completely irrevalent.  I still hear a lot of the other national guys call out the refs, and JVG absolutely does it still.  The problem is, JVG and company have taken their schtick to the next level over the last couple years, and basically sound like Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo during the 12th inning of a West coast game in July, throughout the whole game.

They aren't acting from some directive not to call out the refs, they are just too busy listening to themselves talk to see what actually happened in the game. 

[Fafnir]

Usually, any conversation with Finkelskyhook goes like this...

Finkelskyhook: Ridiculous and unsubstantiated claim
Poster A: But that's ridiculous and unsubstantiated! And here's a ton of evidence as to why...
Finkelskyhook: So what? Repeats claim....

I have to wonder at this point - for a game that you seem to hate so much, why do you continue to watch it? If there is such a big conspiracy, if everything is fixed, why do you continue to expound so much energy to talk about it?

You have so much dislike for almost every player in the league (ie. Steve Nash shouldn't criticize the government because he's rich in the country, or something) and the people that run the league. I'm just confused as to why you watch it.

When we're talking about evidence from Donaghy's co-conspirators who served no time, how credible are they?  They rolled over.
    

The rolled over to Federal prosecutors as part of a mob related case, not just the Donaghy matter. Donaghy cooperated to a certain extent as well and pled out, why is he credible and they are not then? They all rolled over.

We're also talking about evidence from some pundits, some economists, some professional gabmlers, and a variey of sports blogs. But they're not credible somehow because they're all involved in the vast web of David Stern?

[CelticsFanNC]

  I don't think NBA officiating is consistent.  I'm not saying over all the Celtics get a raw end either.  I think in many cases it evens out.

  The reason I don't find it consistent is because I think it is pretty obvious that many of them referee the score rather then the game.  Especially in big nationally televised games if one team starts to separate the opposing team often times starts getting all of the calls.  Casual fans turn off blow outs.  The only people who watch 20 point games are rabid fans.  The only people posting on message boards about the NBA are rabid fans IMO so it is very difficult to find an opinion on one from a casual fan.

  Also how many times do you see one team have a 20-6 edge in FT attempts in the first half but by the end of the game it has evened out?  Of course when you put two of the NBA's chosen on one team like Miami has it kind of throws things out of whack.

  I live in North Carolina and the NBA isn't very popular down here.  Sure there are people like myself who watch NBA games almost every night during the season.  Many of the people I know who are rabid NCAA fans don't watch the NBA at all on only in the playoffs because in many cases they honestly believe it is fixed.  The equate the NBA with Professional Wrestling.  I usually go to see the Celtic's when they play in Charlotte once a year and the place is about 2/3's Celtic fans.  People love basketball in this area of the country, just not the NBA.

[Fafnir]

They aren't acting from some directive not to call out the refs, they are just too busy listening to themselves talk to see what actually happened in the game. 

At least Van Gundy will still provide some actual analysis. Mark Jackson has become a radio DJ sound board at this point.

"Momma there goes that man"
"Hand down, man down"
etc.....

[Mr October]

Why is everybody so complicit?  

Maybe they are not complicit, maybe you are biased and refusing to see what is happening.  I know a huge percentage of the time when I think Lebron "clearly" fouled someone, they show the replay, and it is clear that he didn't in fact foul them, he just made what I thought was a nearly impossible basketball play.  

The guy is a freak, and he plays an incredibly clean game defensively.  His athleticism and length allow him to get to balls that no one else can get to.

I agree that Lebron is a freak, and the majority of what he does is totally legal.

As for complicity of the announcers, I recall that even up until 2 years ago you would hear these same ABC announcers point out when a ref missed a call. I also recall them showing more replays that included controversial calls.

Now almost every time i see something controversial, there is never a replay.

Or if there is a replay, and you see something clear that the refs missed, I do not hear an announcer say, "oh wow, looks like the officials missed one there."

I really don't like transparency being further removed.

If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?

The difference is, now they are too busy talking about the fans in the stands, and discussing something completely irrevalent.  I still hear a lot of the other national guys call out the refs, and JVG absolutely does it still.  The problem is, JVG and company have taken their schtick to the next level over the last couple years, and basically sound like Jerry Remy and Don Orsillo during the 12th inning of a West coast game in July, throughout the whole game.

They aren't acting from some directive not to call out the refs, they are just too busy listening to themselves talk to see what actually happened in the game. 

I agree that the schtick is getting worse. And on occasion JVG will point something out, but far less than before.

Thats cool that you don't think the NBA has any influence over the officiating or what is critically allowed by the announcers. That allows you to enjoy the games more than me.

And sadly nothing can be proven one way or the other about the league's possible influences.

I don't believe in any major conspiracies, so thankfully I can remain a Celtic fan. But i have seen enough to always make my wonder a little. And where there is one corrupt person there is often another.

Go Celtics! ....and Mavs! 

[Mr October]

They aren't acting from some directive not to call out the refs, they are just too busy listening to themselves talk to see what actually happened in the game. 

At least Van Gundy will still provide some actual analysis. Mark Jackson has become a radio DJ sound board at this point.

"Momma there goes that man"
"Hand down, man down"
etc.....

Yeah Mark Jackson has no shame anymore!

[barefacedmonk]

Did anybody else notice that the commentators last night sounded disappointed when the Mavs made that run in the 4th Q?

[Finkelskyhook]

Why is everybody so complicit? 

Maybe they are not complicit, maybe you are biased and refusing to see what is happening.  I know a huge percentage of the time when I think Lebron "clearly" fouled someone, they show the replay, and it is clear that he didn't in fact foul them, he just made what I thought was a nearly impossible basketball play. 

The guy is a freak, and he plays an incredibly clean game defensively.  His athleticism and length allow him to get to balls that no one else can get to.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph.  Except I'll say clean and not incredibly clean.  

My problem, for the most part, is on the other end of the court...Where his game could be incredibly clean...If it had to be.
It's there where it's so clear that the officials are trained to miss calls.  

If an NBA official can see a 5'7 guy like Earl Boykins travel..They sure as hell can see a 6'9" 250 guy move his pivot foot 3 times on the same posession.  Nobody is going to convince me that the messiah is quicker than an NBA guard half his size.

Boykins/Jennings/Bogues/Rondo are a helluva lot "quicker" than the messiah......

Unless, of course, you're an NBA referee.  Then he's just a freak.

NBA officials and NBA analysts are behaving more like fans than doing their job.

[Finkelskyhook]

They aren't acting from some directive not to call out the refs, they are just too busy listening to themselves talk to see what actually happened in the game. 

At least Van Gundy will still provide some actual analysis. Mark Jackson has become a radio DJ sound board at this point.

"Momma there goes that man"
"Hand down, man down"
etc.....

Yeah Mark Jackson has no shame anymore!

Jackson brings the same to a telecast that Earvin Johnson brings to post-game analysis.

Literally nothing.

[vinnie]

I love how articles about Donaghy consistently lead with "Disgraced former referee Tim Donaghy" .....Much like people of the same "neutral" ilk identify people who think differently with ridiculous acronyms in front of their names.

The reality is that what Donaghy said in both videos about the ridiculous calls and non-calls is spot-on.  Sad part is it doesn't take an NBA referee to see it.  We all see it.   How the messiah gets by with 3-4-5 steps is about as covert as 6'8" 450lb King Kong Bundy tippy-toeing from the dressing room to the ring with a chair and hitting somebody over the head with it....And tippy-toeing out of the ring without the referee 3 feet away seeing anything....Except there's 3 officials, the most talented in basketball all watching the same thing....And the freaking NBA ain't supposed to be FAKE.

The fact that Tim DOnaghy has any credibility is amazing to me.

Well, Vinnie....Did you read his book?  How he was able to bet on games based on star calls and the personal relationships..(Good and Bad) that officials had with players, owners, and coaches?  I'm not crazy about his accusations where they pertain to commentators....But every NBA professional commentator says literally nothing after reviewing replays multiple times??  The messiah never ever fouls out despite being the most physical player on the court.  The messiah never travels?  They unanimously say nothing??  Think they're neutral?  Wade never travels?  Watch a Bavetta-officiated game. Tell me what Donaghy says isn't spot-on accurate about how if one team gets a big lead you'll see Bavetta make ridiculous calls to bring the other team back.  What Donaghy says about NBA officials is nothing we didn't talk about before his indictment.  He's very credible when it comes to the specifics of the officiating and very accurate about the specific games in his book and how they were manipulated.
 

Donaghy is a fraud and a pitiful human being. I feel sorry for the guy. Anyone can take apart every NBA game, play by play and point out all the fouls not called and fouled that should not have been called, etc. The whole thing is ridiculous.

[vinnie]

On reputation calls...

After reviewing Lebron's tendency to have happy feet and travel, shouldn't the refs then see that he has a reputation to travel and call it more?

The officials seem to miss an awful lot of those travels in critical situations. And then the officials don't say anything about it. Controversial calls are almost never shown in replay on ABC anymore.

I smell smoke.

I am not convinced he does travel that much.  I think in many cases, he makes plays that look like travels, but when you break them down, the vast majority of them actually aren't.

I despise Lebron James, but this post is 100 percent on the money.

[Finkelskyhook]

Donaghy is a fraud and a pitiful human being. I feel sorry for the guy. Anyone can take apart every NBA game, play by play and point out all the fouls not called and fouled that should not have been called, etc. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Vinnie, the sad part is you're exactly right.  Anyone can take apart every NBA game, play by play and find missed calls.  But when the same exact scenario is consistently missed for one player, they're not missing it.  That's not about the speed of the game...Human error.  Or any factor other than they're missing it because they're supposed to.  They're too well trained to so consistently get it right with player A and consistently get it wrong with player B.

You, Earl Hebner, or I could analyze exactly the same thing Donaghy did in that film.  It doesn't take a disgraced NBA referee to see the obvious.

That's why a fraud and a pitiful human being like Donaghy can have a forum....And be credible.

Just call the freaking game by the rules, for God's sake.  They'll make enough mistakes that way.

Calling missed messiah travels human error is akin to calling Jermaine O'Neal's non-contract year "injuries" injuries.