Tim Donaghy accuses JVG of betting on the Heat based on inside info

[Fafnir]

How he was able to bet on games based on star calls and the personal relationships..(Good and Bad) that officials had with players, owners, and coaches?  I'm not crazy about his accusations where they pertain to commentators....But every NBA professional commentator says literally nothing after reviewing replays multiple times??  The messiah never ever fouls out despite being the most physical player on the court.  The messiah never travels?  They unanimously say nothing??  Think they're neutral?  Wade never travels?  Watch a Bavetta-officiated game. Tell me what Donaghy says isn't spot-on accurate about how if one team gets a big lead you'll see Bavetta make ridiculous calls to bring the other team back.  What Donaghy says about NBA officials is nothing we didn't talk about before his indictment.  He's very credible when it comes to the specifics of the officiating and very accurate about the specific games in his book and how they were manipulated.
 

No he's not, people have gone back through his book and retroactively used his "rules". He'd have lost money, a lot of money if he did that.

The only games he was able to pick winners for were games he refed, many of those had insane free throw differentials for the teams he bet on or his associates bet on.

Hid ability to pick winners via any way of than his own fixing of games is a myth.

[RyNye]

I agree that refereeing in the NBA is horrible, but I still don't buy the conspiracy. The refs are more inconsistent than they are biased. I remember in Game 2 or 3 of the Chicago series Lebron getting called on an offensive foul that made absolutely no sense. Yes, the superstars get preferential treatment, but I really have a hard time believing that there is an active and conscious attempt to fix the results.

And Donaghy is a moron. Yes, he's right about that flagrant/offensive, but how does that even prove anything? He takes two plays out of the game and somehow that is evidence of a huge conspiracy involving refs and JVG? The flagrant one I don't even agree with. That is the kind of move Lebron makes ALL THE TIME. It's a good athletic block attempt, but this time he made contact and got called. And honestly, that travel isn't even Lebron's most absurd travel. That would be this against the Cs.. There's also one from back when he was on the Cavs where he literally runs from the three point line without dribbling and dunks ... no call.

[RyNye]

NBA playbook and a few other sites have kept their own stats on Coaches and Pop/Rivers are marked very highly typically.

I wonder if he's basing his opinion on Doc's early years with the Celtics?

Well, I know that Sebastian Pruiti, the guy who runs NBAPlaybook, is a long-time Celtics fan. I believe he is from New England, originally, though he is now based out of New York.

[jdpapa3]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

[Fafnir]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

I like Scott Foster, I think he's a good ref.

The phone calls really disturbed me though, still do.

[jdpapa3]

Well, I know that Sebastian Pruiti, the guy who runs NBAPlaybook, is a long-time Celtics fan.

I think he's a Nets fan, but could be wrong.

[wdleehi]

He says "I think"


No proof.


No "I know"




It's "I think"




I put as much credence in this as I do with leaving a cat in a small room with a fox after the fox says it will not eat the cat.

[Fafnir]

Well, I know that Sebastian Pruiti, the guy who runs NBAPlaybook, is a long-time Celtics fan.

I think he's a Nets fan, but could be wrong.

He has a blog covering the nets, but they sucked so bad he started NBA playbook so he could get more traffic and do more interesting posts.

[jdpapa3]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

I like Scott Foster, I think he's a good ref.

The phone calls really disturbed me though, still do.

That's the thing. I think of the phrase "you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas." I've half-watched Foster after this whole ordeal and he looks clean. I tend to wonder if he cleaned up after Donaghy went down, was clean the whole time and knew, or was clean the whole time and didn't know. Donaghy just seems like a bonehead, conniving snake when you hear him talk and I don't know how a levelheaded person could be friends with him to the point of hundreds of phone calls shared. Then again, how many people do you know have a lifelong dream of becoming a professional ref?

[Fafnir]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

I like Scott Foster, I think he's a good ref.

The phone calls really disturbed me though, still do.

That's the thing. I think of the phrase "you lay down with dogs, you wake up with fleas." I've half-watched Foster after this whole ordeal and he looks clean. I tend to wonder if he cleaned up after Donaghy went down, was clean the whole time and knew, or was clean the whole time and didn't know. Donaghy just seems like a bonehead, conniving snake when you hear him talk and I don't know how a levelheaded person could be friends with him to the point of hundreds of phone calls shared. Then again, how many people do you know have a lifelong dream of becoming a professional ref?

My other thought I was left with is Foster in the closet? I mean that's  alot of phone calls for long time stamps if you're not dating someone.

Either that or he was gambling in some manner, I dunno. The NBA has cleared him, and I bet they put him through the wringer to figure out what was up with the calls.

All I can do is just my eyes that he's a good ref who calls a good game. Much better than other "top" officials the NBA trots out there.

[greenpride32]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

It's quite simple; they made Donaghy the fall guy and protected Foster.  Basically make it look like there was just one bad seed.  If you have multiple refs in a scandal it makes the situation look a lot worse.

I just remember when Canseco first came out with his comments, how much backlash he received.  But he turned out to be 100% right.  There isn't as much evidence out on Donaghy's statements but many of his comments make sense in explaining some very controversial plays and calls.

Keep in mind that Donaghy has much more insight into the matters than any of us on these boards since he was directly involved.  Corruption goes on everywhere in society.  You would be naive to ignore that face and tto just write off Donaghy without any strong evidence against his statements.

[wdleehi]

On a side note.



Is it against the rules for color guys to bet on games?  They can't control anything on the court.

[Fafnir]

What do you guys think about Scott Foster? I think it's interesting how he's been able to work at the peak of the profession after the info about him and Donaghy leaked. They shared many, many phone calls on Donaghy's gambling phone.

It's quite simple; they made Donaghy the fall guy and protected Foster.  Basically make it look like there was just one bad seed.  If you have multiple refs in a scandal it makes the situation look a lot worse.

I just remember when Canseco first came out with his comments, how much backlash he received.  But he turned out to be 100% right.  There isn't as much evidence out on Donaghy's statements but many of his comments make sense in explaining some very controversial plays and calls.

Keep in mind that Donaghy has much more insight into the matters than any of us on these boards since he was directly involved.  Corruption goes on everywhere in society.  You would be naive to ignore that face and tto just write off Donaghy without any strong evidence against his statements.

Except Donaghy has made claims we can test, and his claims have turned out to be bogus.

Canseco's claims turned up with evidence that they were true. (increased HR rates, slugging, career arcs, size of players, etc)

[Finkelskyhook]

How he was able to bet on games based on star calls and the personal relationships..(Good and Bad) that officials had with players, owners, and coaches?  I'm not crazy about his accusations where they pertain to commentators....But every NBA professional commentator says literally nothing after reviewing replays multiple times??  The messiah never ever fouls out despite being the most physical player on the court.  The messiah never travels?  They unanimously say nothing??  Think they're neutral?  Wade never travels?  Watch a Bavetta-officiated game. Tell me what Donaghy says isn't spot-on accurate about how if one team gets a big lead you'll see Bavetta make ridiculous calls to bring the other team back.  What Donaghy says about NBA officials is nothing we didn't talk about before his indictment.  He's very credible when it comes to the specifics of the officiating and very accurate about the specific games in his book and how they were manipulated.
 

No he's not, people have gone back through his book and retroactively used his "rules". He'd have lost money, a lot of money if he did that.

The only games he was able to pick winners for were games he refed, many of those had insane free throw differentials for the teams he bet on or his associates bet on.

Hid ability to pick winners via any way of than his own fixing of games is a myth.

What people, Fafnir?  Any specifics?  Because I saw several of the games Donaghy is referring to in his book.  In retrospect, his retrospective is amazingly accurate.

If the NBA pundits are going to identify Donaghy as "Disgraced", perhaps in the interests of accuracy..Not to mention neutrality..They should start identifying ESPN and TNT NBA commentators as "Lebron James apologist, Miami Heat Fan...and NBA commentator Mark Jackson"  Then replace Jackson's name with any of your garden variety Stern-run NBA commentator.

Canseco's claims turned up with evidence that they were true. (increased HR rates, slugging, career arcs, size of players, etc)

Yeah....Because that paragon of virtue, grace, and integrity, (Not to mention collossal conflict of interest) George Mitchell, who strangely could find no evidence whatsoever of any current player on his own team....Or any current player in his prime having done any wrongdoing..Told us so.  Mitchell and Canseco are so, so much more credible than Donaghy.

Give me a break

[Mr October]

Somewhat related... It bothered the crap out of me that the announcers sounded disappointed that Dallas was making a run, and then finally completing one of the greatest comebacks in history.

They pick a side/story before the game and thats who they root for. Its disgusting. We might as well be watching Miami Heat commentators.

C'mon Mark Jackson and Van Gundy... you're better than that!

Mike Breen isn't better than that. He's a company man all the way.