Oden?

[skieking]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't understand the fascination that 90% (seems like, big exaggeration I hope) has with Greg Oden, or even Yao Ming for that matter. 
Legitimate 7 footers, yes.  Can they be counted on to play even half the season?  I want to know what kinda kool-aid people are drinking to think so.

What is it about them that makes everyone think we need to take a chance on em?

[Chris]

I don't want them either (unless for some strange reason they sign for the vet minimum), but I think the fascination comes from the whole "potential" thing.  It is the same reason people salivate over someone like Bismack Biyombo.  Based on their resume (whether we are talking basketball skills, or injury history), the chances of them actually being on the floor in the NBA is relatively slim.  But there is that chance that if things do work out, you could be getting a superstar, and those guys are very hard to find.

Its certainly understandable, particularly given how much the C's need more young talent to bridge the gap...but for me, the risk is too high, with such a low chance for reward.

[GreenEnvy]

For an absolute steal I would take him.

But the whole idea of going younger is negated by signing the oldest young player the NBA has ever seen. The kid looked in his mid-30's when he was 16. His body caught up to his looks.

Looks like he has talent when healthy, but that isn't often.

[makaveli]

We need healthy guys. I feel sorry for Oden and Yao, but they have to prove that they can stay healthy if they want to play for any contender(or even any team) next year

[XxSMSxX]

I don't want them either (unless for some strange reason they sign for the vet minimum), but I think the fascination comes from the whole "potential" thing.  It is the same reason people salivate over someone like Bismack Biyombo.  Based on their resume (whether we are talking basketball skills, or injury history), the chances of them actually being on the floor in the NBA is relatively slim.  But there is that chance that if things do work out, you could be getting a superstar, and those guys are very hard to find.

Its certainly understandable, particularly given how much the C's need more young talent to bridge the gap...but for me, the risk is too high, with such a low chance for reward.

This x10000

If we did somehow get him at the vet minimum and he stays healthy, were definitely back to the top of the list of title contenders but that chance as you said is very slim

[dark_lord]

i wouldnt want oden or yao.  both injury prone.  waste of time and $

[Evantime34]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

[Chris]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

The problem is, the C's could be looking at a lot of cap space next summer, which is a huge asset.  Depending on what happens with the CBA, they could have a real opportunity to get some talent with that cap space (and I am not talking about Howard), and that is a much less risky proposition than tying up a guy like Oden or Yao longterm, as I see them both being significantly less than 50% likely to be healthy going forward.

[dark_lord]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

but your throwing $ away and putting my stress on healthy players, in terms of minutes and risk for fatigue and injuries.  again, waste of time and $ imo

[Evantime34]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

The problem is, the C's could be looking at a lot of cap space next summer, which is a huge asset.  Depending on what happens with the CBA, they could have a real opportunity to get some talent with that cap space (and I am not talking about Howard), and that is a much less risky proposition than tying up a guy like Oden or Yao longterm, as I see them both being significantly less than 50% likely to be healthy going forward.

Is it really a huge asset? In the history of the Celtics what impact free agents have they signed.

Yao wouldn't be signed long term. Oden we might need to commit years to.

There aren't that many good centers who are good and often healthy. To get good young talent like Oden there needs to be some risk involved otherwise we'd have no shot at signing him.

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

but your throwing $ away and putting my stress on healthy players, in terms of minutes and risk for fatigue and injuries.  again, waste of time and $ imo

Not throwing away money, taking a risk with a potential payout far greater than the alternative. What is the alternative you ask? It's not like for the same money as it would take to sign Oden that we could get a good center who is without health concerns.

Conceptually I agree with both of you that it would be ideal to sign a good center who can stay healthy. However, the circumstances dictate that if we sign a center he either won't be very good or very healthy or both.

[BballTim]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

The problem is, the C's could be looking at a lot of cap space next summer, which is a huge asset.  Depending on what happens with the CBA, they could have a real opportunity to get some talent with that cap space (and I am not talking about Howard), and that is a much less risky proposition than tying up a guy like Oden or Yao longterm, as I see them both being significantly less than 50% likely to be healthy going forward.

  I wouldn't give a multi-year deal to Yao but I don't know that the odds of Oden recovering enough to be an impact player are much lower than the odds of getting a FA impact player, especially a big.

[Evantime34]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

The problem is, the C's could be looking at a lot of cap space next summer, which is a huge asset.  Depending on what happens with the CBA, they could have a real opportunity to get some talent with that cap space (and I am not talking about Howard), and that is a much less risky proposition than tying up a guy like Oden or Yao longterm, as I see them both being significantly less than 50% likely to be healthy going forward.

  I wouldn't give a multi-year deal to Yao but I don't know that the odds of Oden recovering enough to be an impact player are much lower than the odds of getting a FA impact player, especially a big.

This is the fundamental difference in those that want Oden vs those that don't. Both acknowledge he is a risk, those who want to sign him think it is worth the risk and those that don't, don't.

[Chris]

Is it really a huge asset? In the history of the Celtics what impact free agents have they signed.

Yao wouldn't be signed long term. Oden we might need to commit years to.

There aren't that many good centers who are good and often healthy. To get good young talent like Oden there needs to be some risk involved otherwise we'd have no shot at signing him.

Yes, it is a huge asset, at least in the current CBA (we will see what happens in the new one).  Cap space is what allowed Memphis to get Randolph.  It played a big role in OKC being able to collect assets.  It put the Bulls in position to load up their roster, even when they missed out on the big targets.  

I am not saying that the cap space is essential.  I think if they can get a guy who they feel confident is a building block, then that is more valuable than the cap space.

However, Greg Oden has played in 82 games...in 3 years!  He is coming off microfracture surgery, which has killed careers before, and in most cases takes a few years to fully return from.

I just don't think the risk is worth it.  

[BballTim]

Why do people love Oden and Yao? The answer is because of our situation. By our situation I mean that the Celtics way over the cap, with very few tradeable assets.

Due to these limitations our best chance at success is taking a gamble on a risky player and hoping it pans out. Oden and Yao when healthy are the type of players that could shift the balance of power in our favor. However, if they weren't injury prone we would not have a shot at them.

The problem is, the C's could be looking at a lot of cap space next summer, which is a huge asset.  Depending on what happens with the CBA, they could have a real opportunity to get some talent with that cap space (and I am not talking about Howard), and that is a much less risky proposition than tying up a guy like Oden or Yao longterm, as I see them both being significantly less than 50% likely to be healthy going forward.

  I wouldn't give a multi-year deal to Yao but I don't know that the odds of Oden recovering enough to be an impact player are much lower than the odds of getting a FA impact player, especially a big.

This is the fundamental difference in those that want Oden vs those that don't. Both acknowledge he is a risk, those who want to sign him think it is worth the risk and those that don't, don't.

  There's also the risk that we won't be able to sign an impact player with the cap space we're accumulating.

[Evantime34]

Is it really a huge asset? In the history of the Celtics what impact free agents have they signed.

Yao wouldn't be signed long term. Oden we might need to commit years to.

There aren't that many good centers who are good and often healthy. To get good young talent like Oden there needs to be some risk involved otherwise we'd have no shot at signing him.

Yes, it is a huge asset, at least in the current CBA (we will see what happens in the new one).  Cap space is what allowed Memphis to get Randolph.  It played a big role in OKC being able to collect assets.  It put the Bulls in position to load up their roster, even when they missed out on the big targets.  

I am not saying that the cap space is essential.  I think if they can get a guy who they feel confident is a building block, then that is more valuable than the cap space.

However, Greg Oden has played in 82 games...in 3 years!  He is coming off microfracture surgery, which has killed careers before, and in most cases takes a few years to fully return from.

I just don't think the risk is worth it.  

When they originally traded for Randolph no one wanted him. No one was raving about how the Knicks were able to use there cap space to trade for him beforhand and that was on the same contract.

Pure Salary dumps for good players don't happen as often as fans hope.