Boxscore: Rose vs Iverson

[wdleehi]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

Such as?  Keith Van Horn?  Glen Robinson?  Derrick Coleman?  Larry Hughes?

When AI went to Denver Carmelo was still getting his...and Iverson was averaging 7-8 assists.  You need to look at what was around him...

Webber.

  Webber was old and injured on Philly.

Ben Gordon on the other hand, had his best offensive output next to Rose.  What top offensive player could say that about AI?

  Ben Gordon's best offensive output was 2 years before Rose joined the Bulls.

I would say that was even to the performance he had next to Gordon.  The shooting % are almost identical. 

[soap07]

FWIW, Iverson's most efficient scoring year came in his only full year with Denver when he had by far his career year in TS% - 57%. Playing with an elite scorer like Melo certainly helped both of their games.


Secondly, Chris Webber was awful on the 76ers. This was a clear case of getting stats at the detriment of the team. He was a chucker on bad knees who couldn't play defense. This notion that he was viable second banana to AI is vastly overstated, IMO.

Webber in Sac 04-05 21 points a game  45% shooting

Traded to philly that season

15 points a game.  39% shooting.  



Had nothing to do with AI.  


Glen Robinson was a 20 point a game scorer.


Went to Philly, shot the same %.  Dropped to 16 points a game.  

Really grasping here, man. Glenn Robinson? The man who retired from the NBA the year after joining Philly? That's AI's fault?

[OsirusCeltics]

I don't worship stats
They are too unpredictable and vary on the circumstance
Its like fans don't want to watch/study the actual game anymore

I think people's hate for Iverson is getting in the way of his greatness as a player. I'm sorry Rose is nowhere near the class of Iverson

-Iverson had better court vision, more point guard instincts
-Rose plays like a small forward (not even a shooting guard). If you watch his style of play, its almost identical to Lebron. Lack of a consistent shooting touch, uses athleticism and strength score points, etc. Only thing is that Lebron can play the 1 position, and is 6'9" 280 lbs, so he can get away with it

-Iverson has more natural offensive skills. Had an array of moves, very clutch, and light it up on any defender
-Rose on the other hand uses his strength and athleticism too much to get his points. And those two things do not equal skill, they are not constant and will erode when he gets older and can't use that to his advantage

Theres other reasons, but those two are the ones I wanted to really show the difference between the two players

[Edgar]

But is a fair comparisson if you consider a young AI

[LB3533]

I would say that they are both "chuckers", fair or unfair.

AI was just too small to finish consistently at the basket.

Rose is much bigger and more explosive at the rim.

I don't think Rose will touch AI's career.

They may both be eventual HoFers, but AI is one of the best players ever to play.

[wdleehi]

I would say that they are both "chuckers", fair or unfair.

AI was just too small to finish consistently at the basket.

Rose is much bigger and more explosive at the rim.

I don't think Rose will touch AI's career.

They may both be eventual HoFers, but AI is one of the best players ever to play.

How so?  Both have won an MVP.


AI made it to one final.  If Rose makes it to one, their even.  If he wins one, he is ahead.

[OsirusCeltics]

I would say that they are both "chuckers", fair or unfair.

AI was just too small to finish consistently at the basket.

Rose is much bigger and more explosive at the rim.

I don't think Rose will touch AI's career.

They may both be eventual HoFers, but AI is one of the best players ever to play.

How so?  Both have won an MVP.


AI made it to one final.  If Rose makes it to one, their even.  If he wins one, he is ahead.

Not good to put team accomplishments as a way to judge how good a player is

You could be the best playmaker and unselfish all you want. But if you don't have the horses, you're never going far in the playoffs

[LB3533]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

[wdleehi]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

Rose has won an MVP.  Those guys, not.


And in the NBA, Championships are huge.


We downgrade player like Lebron because he hasn't won. 



Player like Ewing and the Dream are closer in talent then many believe because the Dream won. 

[MBz]

I don't worship stats
They are too unpredictable and vary on the circumstance
Its like fans don't want to watch/study the actual game anymore

I think people's hate for Iverson is getting in the way of his greatness as a player. I'm sorry Rose is nowhere near the class of Iverson

-Iverson had better court vision, more point guard instincts
-Rose plays like a small forward (not even a shooting guard). If you watch his style of play, its almost identical to Lebron. Lack of a consistent shooting touch, uses athleticism and strength score points, etc. Only thing is that Lebron can play the 1 position, and is 6'9" 280 lbs, so he can get away with it

-Iverson has more natural offensive skills. Had an array of moves, very clutch, and light it up on any defender
-Rose on the other hand uses his strength and athleticism too much to get his points. And those two things do not equal skill, they are not constant and will erode when he gets older and can't use that to his advantage

Theres other reasons, but those two are the ones I wanted to really show the difference between the two players

You may not worship stats, but when comparing players, it needs to be brought into discussion.  Let me ask you something, how did Allen Iverson beat his defender so many times? Was his quickness not a part of that?  Isn't that athleticism being used to get points?  I'd say the athleticism of Rose and Iverson is very similar.  Rose is just much bigger than AI.  Also, did Iverson have better point guard skills?  I always thought Philly was much more effective when Snow was playing the point and AI was at the 2. 

[Edgar]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

Rose has won an MVP.  Those guys, not.


And in the NBA, Championships are huge.


We downgrade player like Lebron because he hasn't won. 



Player like Ewing and the Dream are closer in talent then many believe because the Dream won. 

shhhhhhhhhh man... this is insiders info this days

[wdleehi]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

Rose has won an MVP.  Those guys, not.


And in the NBA, Championships are huge.


We downgrade player like Lebron because he hasn't won. 



Player like Ewing and the Dream are closer in talent then many believe because the Dream won. 

shhhhhhhhhh man... this is insiders info this days

I am an insider today?


Sweet. 

[OsirusCeltics]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

Rose has won an MVP.  Those guys, not.


And in the NBA, Championships are huge.


We downgrade player like Lebron because he hasn't won. 



Player like Ewing and the Dream are closer in talent then many believe because the Dream won. 

If Ewing had 5 titles and the Dream had 0, he still wouldn't be a better player than the Dream

The Dream had a more versatile offensive game, and much better defensively. I don't wanna diss Ewing, he's a great player

[Edgar]

Even if Rose wins one title and that is one more title than AI...if Rose's remaining career flames out like Marbury or Steve Francis.....there is no way Rose's career will touch AI's.

No way.

Now I don't forsee Rose's career panning out in the fashion of Marbury or Francis.

But championship or no championship....a career it doesn't make.

Rose has won an MVP.  Those guys, not.


And in the NBA, Championships are huge.


We downgrade player like Lebron because he hasn't won. 



Player like Ewing and the Dream are closer in talent then many believe because the Dream won. 

shhhhhhhhhh man... this is insiders info this days

I am an insider today?


Sweet. 

Its nice to be on the list

[Spilling Green Dye]

Roy, and others, do you think Derrick Rose is an efficient Point Guard?  I personally don't think so, and would hate to start a team with a shoot-first PG.

Like I said, in 15 playoff games this year Rose has met or exceeded a 50% fg only ONCE.  I'd imagine most offenses run w/o a true PG can get that kind of FG%, so what exactly is Rose doing so well that a team can't? 

I agree with the poster that Rose plays similar to Lebron and relies heavily upon his athletic advantages.  At some point he's going to need to learn to shoot well, and hopefully he'll become a better passer.