Boxscore: Rose vs Iverson

[Spilling Green Dye]

When looking at the boxscore only, how is Derrick Rose any different than Allen Iverson was?  Because I haven't watched much of the playoffs since the Celtics exit, I've found myself quickly recapping with boxscores and ultimately began to ask this question.

Iverson's MVP Season (2001):
PPG: 31.1
FG%: 42%
3FG%: 32%
FT: 585 made
FT%: 81.4%
APG: 4.6
SPG: 2.5

Roses's MVP Season (2011):
PPG: 25.0
FG%: 44%
3FG%: 33%
FT: 476
FT%: 85.8%
APG: 7.7
SPG: 1.0

As you can see they have a very similar FG% & 3PT%.  Iverson wasn't quite as good at shooting Free Throws (%), but he was better at getting to the line.  Rose averaged 3.1 more assists than Iverson, which is good, but Iverson also had 1.5 more steals (a sizeable difference).  I would say the only real difference statistically is that Rose took a few less shots (no surprise) and was more apt to get his teammates involved. 

For the past decade the feeling has been that Iverson was very talented, but due to his on the court ineffeciency (shooting %, shots taken, etc) he's not the kind of player a team should have built a championship around.  In the end, Iverson did not win.

I like Rose, but at this point we have to see more from him in the playoffs than the usual 8-27 or 6-22 shooting.  He has shot below 50% in 14 of his 15 playoff games this year.  That is horrible.  And keep in mind when Rose gets fouled his miss doesn't go against his fg%. 

Rose has a lot going for him, but he's gone from underrated to overrated.  Give me an efficient scoring big man to start my team around any day of the week.  Or give me a team that runs plays that result in a high fg% (like the Celtics).  Anyone can score points in this league, but not many do it very efficiently!

[Roy H.]

On a per-minute basis, Rose averaged almost twice as many assists per 36 minutes (7.4 vs 3.9), and the scoring wasn't that different (24.1 vs. 26.7).  Rose also had healthy leads over Iverson in FG% (44.5% vs 42.0%), eFG% (.485 vs. .447), and TS% (.550 vs. .518).

In other words, give me the guy who scores almost as many points, but who distributes the ball better and who is significantly more efficient.  There's no shame in being compared to AI in his prime -- he was an MVP and led his team to the Finals -- but I don't think the two are all that comparable.

[wdleehi]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

[paulcowens]

Being compared to Iverson is a huge compliment to Rose.  That said, it looks to me like he needs to spread the ball around more if the Bulls are to win a championship.  I mean, he does get a  lot of assists, and last night, he did try to playmake quite  a bit, but I get the impression that his team mates have become too habituated to watching Rose operate.  He needs to make a conscious effort next year to get his team mates more involved.

[Fafnir]

On a per-minute basis, Rose averaged almost twice as many assists per 36 minutes (7.4 vs 3.9), and the scoring wasn't that different (24.1 vs. 26.7).  Rose also had healthy leads over Iverson in FG% (44.5% vs 42.0%), eFG% (.485 vs. .447), and TS% (.550 vs. .518).

In other words, give me the guy who scores almost as many points, but who distributes the ball better and who is significantly more efficient.  There's no shame in being compared to AI in his prime -- he was an MVP and led his team to the Finals -- but I don't think the two are all that comparable.

They're both scoring point guards who do not do a good job of running an offense beyond their own scoring.

But statistically they are not a mirror image by any means, Rose is also a better defender than AI.

[soap07]

This can't be stressed enough: Rose is a much better defender than Iverson and is one of the best defending perimeter guards in the league.


Iverson's career would have probably been much different if he was a better defender, but he never was.

[shiggins]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

Such as?  Keith Van Horn?  Glen Robinson?  Derrick Coleman?  Larry Hughes?

When AI went to Denver Carmelo was still getting his...and Iverson was averaging 7-8 assists.  You need to look at what was around him...

[MBz]

Remember the age difference though, in 2001 how old was Iverson? 26?  Rose is just 22 now, I know you want to compare their MVP seasons, but to get a better comparison I think you're better off comparing their 3rd season or Rose's season this year to when Iverson when was 22.  When it's all said and done, they'll have similar stats, only Rose will have a better chance to win a ring.

[wdleehi]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

Such as?  Keith Van Horn?  Glen Robinson?  Derrick Coleman?  Larry Hughes?

When AI went to Denver Carmelo was still getting his...and Iverson was averaging 7-8 assists.  You need to look at what was around him...

Webber.




AI always had assists because the ball was only in his hand.  When he found he could not get a shot off, he passed it.  That teammate only had time to launch a shot.  




When AI joined Melo's team, they ran two offenses.  One to give AI shots.  One to give Melo shots.  They rarely played off one another.



Ben Gordon on the other hand, had his best offensive output next to Rose.  What top offensive player could say that about AI?

[rondohondo]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

Such as?  Keith Van Horn?  Glen Robinson?  Derrick Coleman?  Larry Hughes?

When AI went to Denver Carmelo was still getting his...and Iverson was averaging 7-8 assists.  You need to look at what was around him...

Webber.




AI always had assists because the ball was only in his hand.  When he found he could not get a shot off, he passed it.  That teammate only had time to launch a shot.  




When AI joined Melo's team, they ran two offenses.  One to give AI shots.  One to give Melo shots.  They rarely played off one another.



Ben Gordon on the other hand, had his best offensive output next to Rose.  What top offensive player could say that about AI?

Webber was a washed up scrub in the final few seasons of his career when he joined philly. The most talented teammate Iverson ever had was probably Mutumbo , and scorer maybe Larry Hughs? derrick Coleman?

Thats pretty sad when those are the best players you played with, but  some of that does have to do with AI being such a ball hog. Denver did nothing with Melo and AI and improved dramatically when they traded Iverson for Billups

I think Derrick Rose is going to be a much better overall player than Iverson and could win a championship if they add another scorer/shooter to take the pressure off of rose on offense.

[LB3533]

Assists are one of the most overrated stats in the game. They require other players to make the basket.

Tell me, who on the Sixers could make a basket and if Larry Brown had an offensive system designed for team play?

[wdleehi]

Assists are one of the most overrated stats in the game. They require other players to make the basket.

Tell me, who on the Sixers could make a basket and if Larry Brown had an offensive system designed for team play?

How come in the game AI missed, the team scoring changed very little?


Because the team had guys that could make baskets.  They just didn't get good chances with AI. 



Why did Brown build a team around AI of guys that would play hard defense even if they didn't touch the ball?  Because he knew the rest of the players would not get many touches next to AI.

[soap07]

FWIW, Iverson's most efficient scoring year came in his only full year with Denver when he had by far his career year in TS% - 57%. Playing with an elite scorer like Melo certainly helped both of their games.


Secondly, Chris Webber was awful on the 76ers. This was a clear case of getting stats at the detriment of the team. He was a chucker on bad knees who couldn't play defense. This notion that he was viable second banana to AI is vastly overstated, IMO.

[BballTim]

When Rose had another scorer with him, he let him be a scorer.



Ben Gordon was allowed to be the offensive threat.



For most of AI's career, playing with him killed other offensive player's numbers. 

Such as?  Keith Van Horn?  Glen Robinson?  Derrick Coleman?  Larry Hughes?

When AI went to Denver Carmelo was still getting his...and Iverson was averaging 7-8 assists.  You need to look at what was around him...

Webber.

  Webber was old and injured on Philly.

Ben Gordon on the other hand, had his best offensive output next to Rose.  What top offensive player could say that about AI?

  Ben Gordon's best offensive output was 2 years before Rose joined the Bulls.

[wdleehi]

FWIW, Iverson's most efficient scoring year came in his only full year with Denver when he had by far his career year in TS% - 57%. Playing with an elite scorer like Melo certainly helped both of their games.


Secondly, Chris Webber was awful on the 76ers. This was a clear case of getting stats at the detriment of the team. He was a chucker on bad knees who couldn't play defense. This notion that he was viable second banana to AI is vastly overstated, IMO.

Webber in Sac 04-05 21 points a game  45% shooting

Traded to philly that season

15 points a game.  39% shooting.  



Had nothing to do with AI.  


Glen Robinson was a 20 point a game scorer.


Went to Philly, shot the same %.  Dropped to 16 points a game.