Trade idea Rajon for Ben Gordon

[BballTim]

Sorry Gordon is about the best you could get for Rondo.

Rondo was an all-star this year, and he's signed to a reasonable long-term contract.  He was second in the NBA in assists per game, and in the playoffs, he put up games of:

30 points, 7 assists
15 points, 11 rebounds, 21 assists
21 points, 12 assists
20 points, 6 rebounds, 12 assists

I think people are having a hard time accepting that an overpaid, undersized shooting guard with a bad contract and declining production is the best we could do.

Of course he is second in assists per game. Like I said he is passing to 3 future hof players and he dominates the basketball like no other.

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

  Do you really not know that most point guards have the ball most of the time, and most of them don't average 10 assists? If you think Rondo "dominates the ball like no other" one would wonder if you've ever seen Paul, Rose, Westbrook, Williams or Nash play. And if any other player gets the ball sometimes it's a pass and shoot and frequently it's another pass. The big three pass the ball more than most players at their spots, which actually makes it *harder* for Rondo to get assists.

Not really. Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett shoot off the catch more than probably 90% of starting players in the league.

  Do you have any stats to show this, or is it completely made up?

I guessed it, honestly. But I'm actually very interested in how many of Garnett's shots are off of the catch (don't know if such a stat exists). I would think it is probably the highest of any starting power forward in the league. Ray Allen shoots a lot off the catch too, but not as much as Garnett.

  I don't know about that. One thing I can tell you though is that if you compare shot attempts to assists you'll find that the big three are more likely to pass instead of shooting that the 2-3-4 combos for the teams of any other point guard in the top 10 in assists.

[BballTim]

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

First, Rondo is the team's point guard.  Of course he handles the ball more than any other player on the court:  that's his role on the offense.

At the same time, I think you downplay how hard it is to get as many assists as Rondo does.  Only 11 players in the history of the NBA have averaged as many assists per game as Rondo did last year.

Maybe so. But how many players have had 3 hof players on their team that can convert baskets like Ray,Paul,and KG.

What will happen to those assist numbers when he is not as fast?

  I'd guess none, because most HOF level players do too much with the ball for a pg to get a ton of assists. Can you name a single pg that averaged 11 assists with 3 HOF types? Can you name a single pg that did it with 3 all-stars on the court with him? It's much  harder than you can imagine to do what Rondo did.

[CelticG1]

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
Ill end with this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rajon-Rondo-is-better-than-Derrick-Rose-and-Davi?urn=nba-26022

Rondo believes the hype.

Are you talking about this t-shirt that Rondo had to wear for NBA 2K11 commercial?



Here is the commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol2HYCnVbs&feature=player_embedded

...and here is Derrick Rose with his own t-shirt.



I don't think you can say that Rondo believes in his own hype by posting a commercial. If that's the case then Rose too believes in his hype.

Sure he had to wear it. Get real its just him.
The cocky arrorgance amd know it all attitude that he has had for several years.

Ok, so I'm guessing you just ignored everything in this post and article?

Rondo doesnt believe he has to improve his shooting becuase he is already good enough. Its just Rondo

Right, I'm assuming he worked with Mark Price over the summer just for fun...

Well Rondo did say, "I don't feel like I have to settle for a jump shot, because I can get to the basket at will."

You know what would make me feel better? If Rondo put himself out there and said "I am going to be a better shooter next year" "I am going to work on my shooting this summer", " I need to be a better shooter for this team", "I have so much to improve on"

Doesn't Rondo have all the tools to be an MVP except, well kind of an important part of basketball:shooting??

Either he's satisfied with his body of work or he will never be a decent shooter. In both cases this makes me uneasy

[CelticG1]

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

First, Rondo is the team's point guard.  Of course he handles the ball more than any other player on the court:  that's his role on the offense.

At the same time, I think you downplay how hard it is to get as many assists as Rondo does.  Only 11 players in the history of the NBA have averaged as many assists per game as Rondo did last year.

Maybe so. But how many players have had 3 hof players on their team that can convert baskets like Ray,Paul,and KG.

What will happen to those assist numbers when he is not as fast?

  I'd guess none, because most HOF level players do too much with the ball for a pg to get a ton of assists. Can you name a single pg that averaged 11 assists with 3 HOF types? Can you name a single pg that did it with 3 all-stars on the court with him? It's much  harder than you can imagine to do what Rondo did.

Tougher question is what teams have had 3 HOF's or 3 All-stars?

[ejk3489]

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
Ill end with this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rajon-Rondo-is-better-than-Derrick-Rose-and-Davi?urn=nba-26022

Rondo believes the hype.

Are you talking about this t-shirt that Rondo had to wear for NBA 2K11 commercial?



Here is the commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol2HYCnVbs&feature=player_embedded

...and here is Derrick Rose with his own t-shirt.



I don't think you can say that Rondo believes in his own hype by posting a commercial. If that's the case then Rose too believes in his hype.

Sure he had to wear it. Get real its just him.
The cocky arrorgance amd know it all attitude that he has had for several years.

Ok, so I'm guessing you just ignored everything in this post and article?

Rondo doesnt believe he has to improve his shooting becuase he is already good enough. Its just Rondo

Right, I'm assuming he worked with Mark Price over the summer just for fun...

Well Rondo did say, "I don't feel like I have to settle for a jump shot, because I can get to the basket at will."

You know what would make me feel better? If Rondo put himself out there and said "I am going to be a better shooter next year" "I am going to work on my shooting this summer", " I need to be a better shooter for this team", "I have so much to improve on"

Doesn't Rondo have all the tools to be an MVP except, well kind of an important part of basketball:shooting??

Either he's satisfied with his body of work or he will never be a decent shooter. In both cases this makes me uneasy

What makes you think Rondo is satisfied with is body of work and doesn't at least *attempt* to improve his game over the summer? Just because he doesn't out right say it to the media, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've already mentioned him working with Mark Price over the summer, and everything I've ever heard out of Doc/Danny/other players is that he works very hard to improve his shooting.

[CelticG1]

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
Ill end with this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rajon-Rondo-is-better-than-Derrick-Rose-and-Davi?urn=nba-26022

Rondo believes the hype.

Are you talking about this t-shirt that Rondo had to wear for NBA 2K11 commercial?



Here is the commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol2HYCnVbs&feature=player_embedded

...and here is Derrick Rose with his own t-shirt.



I don't think you can say that Rondo believes in his own hype by posting a commercial. If that's the case then Rose too believes in his hype.

Sure he had to wear it. Get real its just him.
The cocky arrorgance amd know it all attitude that he has had for several years.

Ok, so I'm guessing you just ignored everything in this post and article?

Rondo doesnt believe he has to improve his shooting becuase he is already good enough. Its just Rondo

Right, I'm assuming he worked with Mark Price over the summer just for fun...

Well Rondo did say, "I don't feel like I have to settle for a jump shot, because I can get to the basket at will."

You know what would make me feel better? If Rondo put himself out there and said "I am going to be a better shooter next year" "I am going to work on my shooting this summer", " I need to be a better shooter for this team", "I have so much to improve on"

Doesn't Rondo have all the tools to be an MVP except, well kind of an important part of basketball:shooting??

Either he's satisfied with his body of work or he will never be a decent shooter. In both cases this makes me uneasy

What makes you think Rondo is satisfied with is body of work and doesn't at least *attempt* to improve his game over the summer? Just because he doesn't out right say it to the media, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've already mentioned him working with Mark Price over the summer, and everthing I've ever heard out of Doc/Danny/other players is that he works very hard to improve his shooting.

Well the Mark Price thing was 2 years ago not last summer. How much did he work with him do you know? It's like me saying a played ball with Ray Allen this summer when in reality I shot hoops with him once in a gym. I'm not saying he didn't train a lot with him but I really didn't hear much about it except that he "worked with him" and then never heard anything about it again.

I haven't heard anything from Doc and Danny saying he has tried to improve his shooting. When and where did you hear that?

Rondo doesn't have to tell anyone that he is working on his game but it sure would be nice if he is working and actually proves it next year (unlike the past few years)

What has Rondo improved on in the last couple years? He has been pretty much the same exact player for 2-3 years. He has been playing with the same big 3 pretty much the whole time and then Shaq. Nothing about his game has changed or really improved. He's not even more consistent which is the one thing Danny and Doc have been talking about since 08.

I've seen Derrick Rose come back from a summer and be a 3 point shooter I've seen Dwight Howard come back from a summer with a newly developed post game, even for all the Russell Westbrook bashing he used to have a shot like Rondo!! Now even if he doesn't have the greatest shot selection he is leaps and bounds a better shooter than Rondo.

I just don't want the same Rondo next year and if he is the same than we will be predictably worse unless drastic changes are made

[BballTim]

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

First, Rondo is the team's point guard.  Of course he handles the ball more than any other player on the court:  that's his role on the offense.

At the same time, I think you downplay how hard it is to get as many assists as Rondo does.  Only 11 players in the history of the NBA have averaged as many assists per game as Rondo did last year.

Maybe so. But how many players have had 3 hof players on their team that can convert baskets like Ray,Paul,and KG.

What will happen to those assist numbers when he is not as fast?

  I'd guess none, because most HOF level players do too much with the ball for a pg to get a ton of assists. Can you name a single pg that averaged 11 assists with 3 HOF types? Can you name a single pg that did it with 3 all-stars on the court with him? It's much  harder than you can imagine to do what Rondo did.

Tougher question is what teams have had 3 HOF's or 3 All-stars?

  I would guess the Celts did it a number of times, and I doubt they were alone.

[KCattheStripe]

You know what's awesome, when people come up with conclusions about a person's work ethic without having seen any of the person's work habits and ignoring what has been said about them and instead look solely at the results.

[BballTim]

What has Rondo improved on in the last couple years? He has been pretty much the same exact player for 2-3 years. He has been playing with the same big 3 pretty much the whole time and then Shaq. Nothing about his game has changed or really improved. He's not even more consistent which is the one thing Danny and Doc have been talking about since 08.

  He's improved on his defense, his passing, his running of the offense and his outside shooting.

I've seen Derrick Rose come back from a summer and be a 3 point shooter I've seen Dwight Howard come back from a summer with a newly developed post game, even for all the Russell Westbrook bashing he used to have a shot like Rondo!! Now even if he doesn't have the greatest shot selection he is leaps and bounds a better shooter than Rondo.

  Rose is a below average three point shooter and Howard is only average when he's more than a few feet from the basket. Westbrook's shooting percentages are close to Rondo's inside the three point line, worse in a few areas and better in a few areas. People who don't see Rondo play a lot would likely think he's made strides with his jumper, people who see these guys every day might be less impressed with their improvements than you are.

[ejk3489]

Well the Mark Price thing was 2 years ago not last summer. How much did he work with him do you know? It's like me saying a played ball with Ray Allen this summer when in reality I shot hoops with him once in a gym. I'm not saying he didn't train a lot with him but I really didn't hear much about it except that he "worked with him" and then never heard anything about it again.

Right, sorry I meant two summers ago...obviously last summer he was with Team USA for most of the time. And apparently he worked with him everyday, according to this source anyways:

http://www.celticsblog.com/2009/9/30/1061742/csn-rondo-worked-with-mark-price

I haven't heard anything from Doc and Danny saying he has tried to improve his shooting. When and where did you hear that?

I don't have any specific quotes that I can find off the top of my head, but from watching a lot of interviews of KG, Danny, Doc, Pierce, ect. over the years they've always said that Rondo has a great work ethic...not necessarily in regards to shooting, but I don't see why that wouldn't apply. I've also seen a lot of videos from Chris Forsberg's (from ESPN Boston) youtube account of Rondo shooting jumpshots after practice, FWIW.

And here is a piece about Rondo's work ethic, and how he tries to learn from KG/Ray:

http://www.celticstown.com/2010/04/01/rajon-rondos-dime-magazine-cover-story-reveals-work-ethic/

What has Rondo improved on in the last couple years? He has been pretty much the same exact player for 2-3 years. He has been playing with the same big 3 pretty much the whole time and then Shaq. Nothing about his game has changed or really improved. He's not even more consistent which is the one thing Danny and Doc have been talking about since 08.

Well, what more does he need to improve on besides his shooting and FT%? His defense, passing, rebounding, leadership, and ball handling ability is already way above average. And before injuries took a toll on him this season he was very consistent, and I thought he was pretty consistent last season as well.

I've seen Derrick Rose come back from a summer and be a 3 point shooter I've seen Dwight Howard come back from a summer with a newly developed post game, even for all the Russell Westbrook bashing he used to have a shot like Rondo!!

And yet Rose is still a mediocre three point shooter, and Westbrook certainly didn't turn into Nash or Paul. They made some improvements, but it's not like they became great overnight...and what did it take, about 5 or 6 years for Dwight to finally get a post move?

[Tai]

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
Ill end with this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rajon-Rondo-is-better-than-Derrick-Rose-and-Davi?urn=nba-26022

Rondo believes the hype.

Are you talking about this t-shirt that Rondo had to wear for NBA 2K11 commercial?



Here is the commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ol2HYCnVbs&feature=player_embedded

...and here is Derrick Rose with his own t-shirt.



I don't think you can say that Rondo believes in his own hype by posting a commercial. If that's the case then Rose too believes in his hype.

Are you talking about this t-shirt that Rondo had to wear for NBA 2K11 commercial?

Sure he had to wear it. Get real its just him.
The cocky arrorgance amd know it all attitude that he has had for several years.

He believes just what was said earlier in this thread " Rondo led us to a championship in 08"

The walking away from Pierce several times while the captain was trying to talk to Rondo during the Miami series.

The insistance of playing with one arm even had Reggie Miller saying "Rondo was hurting the team"

Rondo doesnt believe he has to improve his shooting becuase he is already good enough. Its just Rondo.

Timeout.

You bash Jermaine O'Neal and try to turn him into a butt of a joke single-handedly by exclaiming he only shows up in contract years based on his injuries and have said more than once that he'll be our starting center next season and play in 60+ games based on this, yet Rondo COMES BACK IN THE SAME GAME he was injured in, ends up willing himself through the rest of the series, and you bash him for that? I don't get it. You're entitled to your opinion on an player, but I feel like you're straight up two-facing with the bolded part of the quote.

Also...you say the best Danny could get for Rondo is Ben Gordon because Rondo's "flawed". Is someone else not flawed because they can shoot? That sounds like the cusp of that part of your argument against Rondo....please clarify for me whether that's true.

[kn 99]

whats wrong with you

seriously

only way i would trade rondo for gordon is this

ben gordon
Greg Monroe
2011 1st round pick
2012 1st round pick unprotected

for

rajon rondo
glen davis

  I would do that trade, it gives us something from bbd and brings in a young monroe and some picks. I think if we do this trade it would give danny some trading chips in the future.

[hpantazo]

How about we move Delonte over to starting point guard
then we can trade Rajon to Detroit for Gordon. We need offensive firepower and Ben can score the basketball. There were reports in January that Ben was worried the Pistons could look to trade him..

"
When Gordon agreed to terms with the Pistons, he believed he was joining a team that would continue to win and contend each season. Instead, he's in the middle of trade rumors and a rebuilding effort that he didn't sign up for.

"It's really tough, man. I didn't see this coming. I never saw any of this stuff coming when I signed here. It's a state of transition and we have a lot of issues that hopefully get sorted out. But that's part of the business of basketball. These things happen and we just have to weather them and look forward to things changing and getting better," Gordon told HOOPSWORLD.

"When you see stuff happening to a guy like Richard Hamilton, who has won a championship here and had so many great years, I'd be foolish to think that the same couldn't happen to me or anybody else in this room. That's what's going on right now with our team," Gordon said."

http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/01/25/ben.gordon.worried.pistons.will.trade.him


Thoughts?


 

that's one of the worst trade proposals I have seen on here in a long time, and usually the bad proposals heavily favor the celtics, this one is the opposite.

[scaryjerry]

How exactly was rondo among the lead leagers in jersey sales? from what i see, majority of celtics fans just want to trade him...and this is among the most laughable ideas yet

[BballTim]

The insistance of playing with one arm even had Reggie Miller saying "Rondo was hurting the team"

Timeout.

You bash Jermaine O'Neal and try to turn him into a butt of a joke single-handedly by exclaiming he only shows up in contract years based on his injuries and have said more than once that he'll be our starting center next season and play in 60+ games based on this, yet Rondo COMES BACK IN THE SAME GAME he was injured in, ends up willing himself through the rest of the series, and you bash him for that? I don't get it. You're entitled to your opinion on an player, but I feel like you're straight up two-facing with the bolded part of the quote.

  The worst part is he feels that his point is proven because of a comment by an announcer. Who ya gonna believe, Reggie Miller or your lyin' eyes?