Trade idea Rajon for Ben Gordon

[FatjohnReturns]

The kid cant shoot and he is assist totals are buffed by passing the ball to three future hall of fame players.

Danny will sell high Rondo will be traded this offseason or next.

Same old song. yes we know he can't shoot. But can Ben Gordon play the point? Does he have Rondo's court vision? What about his BBIQ? What's Ben Gordon defense like? Any intangibles? How big is his heart? Where does Ben Gordon put his NBA championship Ring? How many All-Star games he played in? Did he receive any All NBA consideration? Does he make his teammates better? How many players publically stated they want to play for Ben Gordon?

Did you read the first post of the thread?
I am not replacing Rondo with Gordon. I am replacing ROndo with Delonte and filling our SG slot after next year.

[Roy H.]

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

First, Rondo is the team's point guard.  Of course he handles the ball more than any other player on the court:  that's his role on the offense.

At the same time, I think you downplay how hard it is to get as many assists as Rondo does.  Only 11 players in the history of the NBA have averaged as many assists per game as Rondo did last year.

[FatjohnReturns]

I havnt been able to respond because of work limitations so here is my counter argument.

Rondo shoots free throws and 3ptrs worse than any starting point guard in the entire league. Could some of you Rondo supporters explain to my why a point guard doenst need to be able to shoot. When Rondos slows downs physically he will be worse than medicore and he will slow down. He is small and he goes crashing to the floor. We saw already how his injuries slowed him down this year and he is young. Wait and see in another 4 yearrs.

Sorry Gordon is about the best you could get for Rondo. You people believing you are going to get Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook are living in fantasy land.

So since we can't trade Rondo for Paul or Westbrook, we should instead trade him for a streaky chucker who provides nothing but points and can't defend either PG's or SG's?

Sorry, but no.  I guess I'll just struggle onward with my one-time champion, two-time All-Star, reigning 1st team All-Defense point guard then if that's the 'best I can do'.

For the record, I actually like Ben Gordon.  I think he's a dangerous offensive weapon who can be effective on a team that can hide his deficiencies.  Kuester is a garbage coach who has grossly mismanaged most of the Pistons lineup, and Ben Gordon has fallen victim to that ineptitude as much as anybody - based on talent and skillset, he should be in the same category as Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry.  But he's not in the same class as Rajon Rondo.

The extent to which Rondo's value fluctuates among fans is astonishing to me.  On one end, you have thread like this who grossly undervalue him.  Others insist that the Thunder would have to hand over Westbrook, Ibaka and picks to get him.  

I guess I'll just struggle onward with my one-time champion, two-time All-Star, reigning 1st team All-Defense point guard then if that's the 'best I can do'.

Its stuff like this that have Rondo believing his own hype.
He doesnt believe he has to improve and thats why he is the worst shooting starting point guard for FT and 3PTRS in the entire league.

Dont worry thought because Danny will trade Rondo before the big three retire and it becomes more visable how limited he truely is.

[FatjohnReturns]

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

First, Rondo is the team's point guard.  Of course he handles the ball more than any other player on the court:  that's his role on the offense.

At the same time, I think you downplay how hard it is to get as many assists as Rondo does.  Only 11 players in the history of the NBA have averaged as many assists per game as Rondo did last year.

Maybe so. But how many players have had 3 hof players on their team that can convert baskets like Ray,Paul,and KG.

What will happen to those assist numbers when he is not as fast?

[Roy H.]

He doesnt believe he has to improve and thats why he is the worst shooting starting point guard for FT and 3PTRS in the entire league.

Andre Miller and Ramon Sessions (started 38 games) are worse three point shooters, so Rondo has that going for him.

Also, Rondo sucks from the outside, but he *was* 6th in the NBA in FG% among PGs.  That counts for something.

[Atzar]

Of course he is second in assists per game. Like I said he is passing to 3 future hof players and he dominates the basketball like no other.

He always has the ball in the open court. He has the ball more than any other Celtic player in the half court. If any other Celtic gets the ball its a catch and shoot or a one/two dribble move and shoot. Many professional basketball players could average 10 assists per game if they always have the ball.

And I'm supposed to take this as a negative to Rondo's game?  Let me rewrite that sentence for you:  "Rondo delivers the ball to his shooters when they are either wide open or one dribble away from an easy shot."  Does that sound like a bad thing to you?  

I guess I'll just struggle onward with my one-time champion, two-time All-Star, reigning 1st team All-Defense point guard then if that's the 'best I can do'.

Its stuff like this that have Rondo believing his own hype.
He doesnt believe he has to improve and thats why he is the worst shooting starting point guard for FT and 3PTRS in the entire league.

Dont worry thought because Danny will trade Rondo before the big three retire and it becomes more visable how limited he truely is.

Right, because Rondo has clearly rested on his laurels and doesn't work to improve his game.

Come on.  He has come into every season in better shape than the last season.  He has made visible strides with his jumpshot, even though he didn't turn into Deron Williams overnight like everybody wants.  He'll likely never be considered a knockdown shooter, but I think with continued repetition he can become acceptable in that aspect of the game.

As far as free throws, I readily agree with you that his performance was just unacceptable.  He has to attack the basket and draw fouls.  We can live with the poor percentage for awhile, but I have a hunch that the gametime repetitions of shooting 8 ft's a night would have him shooting 65%+ at the end of the year.  While not ideal, that would serve to get opposing bigs in foul trouble and force defenses to at least pay attention to him.  The defense can't be allowed to absolutely ignore him like the Heat did in the playoffs.

[FatjohnReturns]

He doesnt believe he has to improve and thats why he is the worst shooting starting point guard for FT and 3PTRS in the entire league.

Andre Miller and Ramon Sessions (started 38 games) are worse three point shooters, so Rondo has that going for him.

Also, Rondo sucks from the outside, but he *was* 6th in the NBA in FG% among PGs.  That counts for something.

I would guess that a good amount of those fga are layups. No doubt the kid is fast. As weve seen in NBA history every player loses his footspeed at some time in their career.

When Rondo loses his he will be done. He has to learn to shoot the ball. He hasnt improved his shooting and I dont think he cares to. As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their free throw shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

[Roy H.]

As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

Is there any evidence this is true?  If it was, there are a whole lot of lazy NBA players.

Why didn't KG ever become a great 3PT shooter?  Lazy.  Duncan?  Lazy.  Larry Bird's career 3PT percentage is lower than his rookie year's.  Lazy.

Some players can significantly improve their shooting with hard work.  I don't think all can, though.  I do hope that Rondo can improve his overall shooting, particularly from the free throw line, but if he doesn't I'm not going to chock it up to lack of a work ethic.

[FatjohnReturns]

As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

Is there any evidence this is true?  If it was, there are a whole lot of lazy NBA players.

Why didn't KG ever become a great 3PT shooter?  Lazy.  Duncan?  Lazy.  Larry Bird's career 3PT percentage is lower than his rookie year's.  Lazy.

Some players can significantly improve their shooting with hard work.  I don't think all can, though.  I do hope that Rondo can improve his overall shooting, particularly from the free throw line, but if he doesn't I'm not going to chock it up to lack of a work ethic.

There is no handicap that prevents Rondo from improving free throw% besides a lack of desire

its that simple

[Roy H.]

As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

Is there any evidence this is true?  If it was, there are a whole lot of lazy NBA players.

Why didn't KG ever become a great 3PT shooter?  Lazy.  Duncan?  Lazy.  Larry Bird's career 3PT percentage is lower than his rookie year's.  Lazy.

Some players can significantly improve their shooting with hard work.  I don't think all can, though.  I do hope that Rondo can improve his overall shooting, particularly from the free throw line, but if he doesn't I'm not going to chock it up to lack of a work ethic.

There is no handicap that prevents Rondo from improving free throw% besides a lack of desire

its that simple

Like KG, Duncan, and Bird above.  Got it.  Because the *only* reasons players continue to struggle with improving their shot percentage is laziness.

[FatjohnReturns]

As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

Is there any evidence this is true?  If it was, there are a whole lot of lazy NBA players.

Why didn't KG ever become a great 3PT shooter?  Lazy.  Duncan?  Lazy.  Larry Bird's career 3PT percentage is lower than his rookie year's.  Lazy.

Some players can significantly improve their shooting with hard work.  I don't think all can, though.  I do hope that Rondo can improve his overall shooting, particularly from the free throw line, but if he doesn't I'm not going to chock it up to lack of a work ethic.

There is no handicap that prevents Rondo from improving free throw% besides a lack of desire

its that simple

Like KG, Duncan, and Bird above.  Got it.  Because the *only* reasons players continue to struggle with improving their shot percentage is laziness.

"Because the *only* reasons players continue to struggle with improving their shot percentage is laziness."

"No of course not. I am sure there are lots of reasons players struggle with their shot. bad shot attempts, a injury, bad mechanics, probably quite a few more."
But Rondo has been in the league for five years and is at the very bottom of the league.  What does it tell you he cant hit free throws at a good clip after five years?

[Roy H.]

 What does it tell you he cant hit free throws at a good clip after five years?

That he's not a good free throw shooter.  He's not as bad as he showed this year, but I doubt he'll ever become very good.

However, he's tremendous at a lot of other aspects of the game.  We can't hyper-fixate on his shooting, while ignoring his toughness, his court vision, his passing skills, his dribbling, his defense, his speed, his penetrating ability, his athleticism, etc.

[FatjohnReturns]

What does it tell you he cant hit free throws at a good clip after five years?

That he's not a good free throw shooter.  He's not as bad as he showed this year, but I doubt he'll ever become very good.

However, he's tremendous at a lot of other aspects of the game.  We can't hyper-fixate on his shooting, while ignoring his toughness, his court vision, his passing skills, his dribbling, his defense, his speed, his penetrating ability, his athleticism, etc.

Well we will have to agree to disagree.
Ill end with this http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rajon-Rondo-is-better-than-Derrick-Rose-and-Davi?urn=nba-26022

Rondo believes the hype. Danny wants us and the league to believe the hype so he can flip a package centered around Rondo into the next Celtics superstar. More likely though we end up with someone like Ben Gordon.

Cheers Have a good weekend everyone.

[CelticG1]

 What does it tell you he cant hit free throws at a good clip after five years?

That he's not a good free throw shooter.  He's not as bad as he showed this year, but I doubt he'll ever become very good.

However, he's tremendous at a lot of other aspects of the game.  We can't hyper-fixate on his shooting, while ignoring his toughness, his court vision, his passing skills, his dribbling, his defense, his speed, his penetrating ability, his athleticism, etc.

Although  a lot of things you mentioned are important for a PG I think him being such a poor shooter is really a gigantic issue especially moving forward with this team.

People have always said that Rondo is the perfect fit for this team and he has been because we have had such an array of offensive options and such talented shooters. Just because Rondo was the perfect PG for our Celtics team for a while doesn't mean that he has to be our PG moving forward. There is no doubt that we will need more offense and scoring options moving forward and as the Big 3 get less minutes and slow down a bit I think having a PG that is more reliable on the offensive end could be a very important factor in improving

[GreenEnvy]

As someone said in another thread about Rondo and I am paraphrasing " Anyone can improve their shooting with a little hard work and dedication"

Is there any evidence this is true?  If it was, there are a whole lot of lazy NBA players.

Why didn't KG ever become a great 3PT shooter?  Lazy.  Duncan?  Lazy.  Larry Bird's career 3PT percentage is lower than his rookie year's.  Lazy.

Some players can significantly improve their shooting with hard work.  I don't think all can, though.  I do hope that Rondo can improve his overall shooting, particularly from the free throw line, but if he doesn't I'm not going to chock it up to lack of a work ethic.

There is no handicap that prevents Rondo from improving free throw% besides a lack of desire

its that simple

Like KG, Duncan, and Bird above.  Got it.  Because the *only* reasons players continue to struggle with improving their shot percentage is laziness.

That's not even a fair argument.

I think it is proven that with practice and coaching you DO get better.

Shooting is not KG, Duncan, or Bird's weakness. Why would KG or Duncan want to start taking shots that aren't part of their games? And don't compare one year for any player, whether it be his first or his last or any in between, to his career numbers.

And defenses play a major part of shooting percentages. Look at KG's FT% and it has basically gotten progressively better. His rookie year was his worst (excluding the strike season when it was .001 worse with a significantly smaller sample size) and this past season was his best. Larry Bird was similar, his rookie season his worst, and his final season .040 better than his career). So, they did improve their shooting (Duncan has been more of an ebb and flow FT shooter).

With Rondo, the majority of his looks are not heavily contested (and that's being generous). His FT shooting is inexcusably bad. For such a mentally strong player, I don't believe it's between the ears.

He needs to keep working on it. That's the only way it's going to get better. Maybe his unusually long arms and hands are too much of a problem for his mechanics? There are bigs who can shoot, so I don't know how much of blame can be put on that.