What's up with Perk ?

[StartOrien]

He's clearly pretty banged up. He's gotten a full step slower with each game.

[Bankshot]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are.  There's no question that the Celtics imploded after The Trade, while the Thunder did a lot better.  But many of you would rather believe that we 'never had a chance' against the wondrous Heat, even though for much of this last season WE looked like the team to beat for the championship.

I actually think it was a bad trade tactically for both teams. The main reason it helped OKC is because it settled their rotation. Something their coach was always able to do, he just didn't do it. Perk was more of an asset in our system, where he knew it cold, and where his D in the middle made more of an impact. I still don't think we beat the Heat if you undo the trade, and I don't think he's adding much to OKC. Had OKC run into LAL he might have been an important factor, but they didn't. The Mavs are unconventional because of Dirk and that hurts Perk.

So I think for this season (which I value more than future seasons) it was a bad trade. Yet I also agree with the premise of this thread that Perk is not all right and not that much of a factor for OKC. You are constructing a false dichotomy. It's not either-or, it can be both or neither, and shades of gray.

Well why didn't Kristic settle their rotation?  Kristic is an average center. 

OKC might be better with Krstic in this series.  No one can defend Dirk anyway and at least he gives them some offense.

[Brendan]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are.  There's no question that the Celtics imploded after The Trade, while the Thunder did a lot better.  But many of you would rather believe that we 'never had a chance' against the wondrous Heat, even though for much of this last season WE looked like the team to beat for the championship.

I actually think it was a bad trade tactically for both teams. The main reason it helped OKC is because it settled their rotation. Something their coach was always able to do, he just didn't do it. Perk was more of an asset in our system, where he knew it cold, and where his D in the middle made more of an impact. I still don't think we beat the Heat if you undo the trade, and I don't think he's adding much to OKC. Had OKC run into LAL he might have been an important factor, but they didn't. The Mavs are unconventional because of Dirk and that hurts Perk.

So I think for this season (which I value more than future seasons) it was a bad trade. Yet I also agree with the premise of this thread that Perk is not all right and not that much of a factor for OKC. You are constructing a false dichotomy. It's not either-or, it can be both or neither, and shades of gray.

Well why didn't Kristic settle their rotation?  Kristic is an average center. 

I dunno - but they didn't start him. I think if they had played Kristic at Center and started Ibaka at PF they would have been better off. Maybe it was over valuing Green at PF, or undervaluing Kristic at C, or whatever - but the coach didn't do it.

I think: Kristic, Ibaka, Durant, Sefalosha, Westbrook w/ Harden, Green, and Collison would have been a better rotation - but that's not how they played. They played Ibaka, Green, Durant as starting front line.

(Also I'm not saying Perk isn't better than Kristic or is - its just irrelevant to my overall point.)

[jv2764]

A big man with bad knees is a recipe for disaster.  The best are the Perk loyalists who claim OKC is in the WCF because he is on the team.  Puhleaze.

[bbd24]

What do you think about Perkins and his 8/9 M per/yr contract ?

Specifically, those who hated the trade for the C's, and denounced Ainge, while praising Presti in the process.  Are you still singing Sam's praises ?

285 lb + man, coming off major knee surgery, problems with both knees, comes from a team with 4 all stars around him, and your paying him that type of money for his 'role' ?

TGFD....Thank God For Danny...Get something while the getting be good #44.  Thankful he didn't let him just walk (or crawl) for nothing.

If you still feel this trade was bad for the Celtics, well, in the immortal words of Judas Priest,

" YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN "

[17wasEZ]

A big man with bad knees is a recipe for disaster.  The best are the Perk loyalists who claim OKC is in the WCF because he is on the team.  Puhleaze.

Whaaaaaat? I posted this on another thread, but here is the basic idea:

If the Celtics hadn't traded Perk they would be playing Chicago right now and would be up 2-0 because Perk was that good. Boston was NEVER out-rebounded with him in the lineup so there is no way Miami could have controlled the boards. He has almost singlehandedly carried OKC to the WCF. 

Durant, Westbrook and company would be useless without that anchor in the middle. Perk has already blocked 8 shots in 13 playoff games and is rolling offensively with one (1) playoff game where he has scored more than 7 points so far.

Don't let his +/- numbers below fool you........they got their $9 million dollar man for the 2011 playoff run and the Celtics clearly lost out!


TOP INDIVIDUAL OKC PLAYERS IN THE PLAYOFFS
PLAYER 1       +/-               Games
N. Collison       +77           13
K. Durant       +65           13
J. Harden       +54           13
R. Westbrook       +51           13
N. Mohammed  +21           13
D. Cook             +6           13
S. Ibaka                + 3            13
N. Robinson         -4              3
R. Ivey                 -4              2
E. Maynor         -8            13
T. Sefolosha       -20                13
K. Perkins       -26           13

http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=1&season=42010&split=9&team=Thunder

[wdleehi]

What do you think about Perkins and his 8/9 M per/yr contract ?

Specifically, those who hated the trade for the C's, and denounced Ainge, while praising Presti in the process.  Are you still singing Sam's praises ?

285 lb + man, coming off major knee surgery, problems with both knees, comes from a team with 4 all stars around him, and your paying him that type of money for his 'role' ?

TGFD....Thank God For Danny...Get something while the getting be good #44.  Thankful he didn't let him just walk (or crawl) for nothing.

If you still feel this trade was bad for the Celtics, well, in the immortal words of Judas Priest,

" YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN "

I know I am so happy that the Celtics made a trade when they had the best record in the East and are now gone fishing. 




Thank you so much.  Way to blow up the starting 5 that won one title and made it to the NBA final the other time all 5 were on the court.  It was brilliant. 

[Bankshot]

What do you think about Perkins and his 8/9 M per/yr contract ?

Specifically, those who hated the trade for the C's, and denounced Ainge, while praising Presti in the process.  Are you still singing Sam's praises ?

285 lb + man, coming off major knee surgery, problems with both knees, comes from a team with 4 all stars around him, and your paying him that type of money for his 'role' ?

TGFD....Thank God For Danny...Get something while the getting be good #44.  Thankful he didn't let him just walk (or crawl) for nothing.

If you still feel this trade was bad for the Celtics, well, in the immortal words of Judas Priest,

" YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN "

I know I am so happy that the Celtics made a trade when they had the best record in the East and are now gone fishing. 




Thank you so much.  Way to blow up the starting 5 that won one title and made it to the NBA final the other time all 5 were on the court.  It was brilliant. 

I don't think Perk would have prevented the Celtics from "going fishing".  They had the best record WITHOUT Perk playing.  They didn't miss Perk, they missed Shaq.  I think the Celtics got out of JO what they would have got out of Perk anyway.

[wdleehi]

What do you think about Perkins and his 8/9 M per/yr contract ?

Specifically, those who hated the trade for the C's, and denounced Ainge, while praising Presti in the process.  Are you still singing Sam's praises ?

285 lb + man, coming off major knee surgery, problems with both knees, comes from a team with 4 all stars around him, and your paying him that type of money for his 'role' ?

TGFD....Thank God For Danny...Get something while the getting be good #44.  Thankful he didn't let him just walk (or crawl) for nothing.

If you still feel this trade was bad for the Celtics, well, in the immortal words of Judas Priest,

" YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN "

I know I am so happy that the Celtics made a trade when they had the best record in the East and are now gone fishing. 




Thank you so much.  Way to blow up the starting 5 that won one title and made it to the NBA final the other time all 5 were on the court.  It was brilliant. 

I don't think Perk would have prevented the Celtics from "going fishing".  They had the best record WITHOUT Perk playing.  They didn't miss Perk, they missed Shaq.  I think the Celtics got out of JO what they would have got out of Perk anyway.

No.  Perk would add to what JO did, not replace. 


It would be Perk + JO.

Not Perk or JO.

[blackbird]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are.  There's no question that the Celtics imploded after The Trade, while the Thunder did a lot better.  But many of you would rather believe that we 'never had a chance' against the wondrous Heat, even though for much of this last season WE looked like the team to beat for the championship.

If you wanted to blame someone on the Thunder for their difficulties containing the front duos of the Grizzlies and the Mavericks, it would make a lot more sense to blame Ibaka.  It's Ibaka who has been unable to play effective defense on two of the most powerful and effective power forwards in the league.  But then again, no one can play defense against those guys when the referees won't LET anyone. 

I thought that there was going to be accountability for Danny if we didn't win a championship, after The Trade, at least from the fans.  But many of you have simply moved the goal posts.  You are now acting like it was never really realistic to think that we could win a championship.
Too old.  Not athletic.  Wow.  Did all that happen overnight?   Well, yes, it basically did.

Trading off Perkins hurt us on a lot of levels.  Even at half speed, Perkins anchors a defense.  As Doc FINALLY pointed out, it left us with a team that had basically been preset to preseason, as far as knowing each other was concerned.  What he chose not to point out was that it clearly torpedoed our famous 'ubuntu'.   And it killed our seeding. 

No, Perkins isn't a great center.  And now he's a hurting not-great-center.  But he DOES control the middle on defense, and he does set screens on offense, and a lot of centers DON'T EVEN DO THAT MUCH. 

And if you want to blame Perkins for Nowitski's breakout, never mind that N has been torching everyone, why not blame Chandler for Durant's 40 points?   When people want soooo badly to defend Danny, they have to clutch at straws.  Perkins elevated the Thunder.  Losing him wrecked us.  Not because he's a great player, but because he was necessary to us.

People continue to say 'if Shaq had been healthy'.  Sure.  A healthy Shaq was clearly better than Perkins.  He made our offense literally unstoppable.  When he was healthy, we were pretty much guaranteed a healthy lead in the first quarter against anyone.  But he wasn't healthy.  He was nowhere near it towards the end, and anyone who believed Danny's hype otherwise was being willfully delusional.  Trading Perkins left us with no starting center.  JO rose to the occasion.  That alone was a miracle.  Having him coming off the bench after Perk and playing like that would have been brilliant.

But what is stunning is the way everyone has gone fatalistic.  Rather than blame the obvious cause for our demise from championship frontrunners to championship onlookers, many of you choose to search desperately for other reasons.  As far as I can see, most people have been so deeply conditioned to worship authority that this is now second nature to them.  They will not question even the most obvious lies, from authority figures that are well known to lie freely (as when Danny and Doc assured us endlessly that KG was on the point of return, two years ago).

So it is with life in bizarro world.  I doubt if the Thunder will get past the Mavs.  Nowitski scoring at a 50ppg clip is just too high a mountain to climb, probably for any team other than the Heat.  But even if they do, some folks have already said that Perkins will deserve no part in the credit for such an achievement!!

Epic post. Loved it all, and agree 100%.

[jdpapa3]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are. 

What if you were in favor of trading Perk at the deadline before Ainge did it?

[bbd24]

What do you think about Perkins and his 8/9 M per/yr contract ?

Specifically, those who hated the trade for the C's, and denounced Ainge, while praising Presti in the process.  Are you still singing Sam's praises ?

285 lb + man, coming off major knee surgery, problems with both knees, comes from a team with 4 all stars around him, and your paying him that type of money for his 'role' ?

TGFD....Thank God For Danny...Get something while the getting be good #44.  Thankful he didn't let him just walk (or crawl) for nothing.

If you still feel this trade was bad for the Celtics, well, in the immortal words of Judas Priest,

" YOU'VE GOT ANOTHER THING COMIN "

I know I am so happy that the Celtics made a trade when they had the best record in the East and are now gone fishing. 




Thank you so much.  Way to blow up the starting 5 that won one title and made it to the NBA final the other time all 5 were on the court.  It was brilliant. 

I don't think Perk would have prevented the Celtics from "going fishing".  They had the best record WITHOUT Perk playing.  They didn't miss Perk, they missed Shaq.  I think the Celtics got out of JO what they would have got out of Perk anyway.

No.  Perk would add to what JO did, not replace. 


It would be Perk + JO.

Not Perk or JO.

With Sasha backing up Pierce.  So, two Centers at 50%, JO and Perk, with Sasha at 100%

[barefacedmonk]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are.  There's no question that the Celtics imploded after The Trade, while the Thunder did a lot better.  But many of you would rather believe that we 'never had a chance' against the wondrous Heat, even though for much of this last season WE looked like the team to beat for the championship.

If you wanted to blame someone on the Thunder for their difficulties containing the front duos of the Grizzlies and the Mavericks, it would make a lot more sense to blame Ibaka.  It's Ibaka who has been unable to play effective defense on two of the most powerful and effective power forwards in the league.  But then again, no one can play defense against those guys when the referees won't LET anyone. 

I thought that there was going to be accountability for Danny if we didn't win a championship, after The Trade, at least from the fans.  But many of you have simply moved the goal posts.  You are now acting like it was never really realistic to think that we could win a championship.
Too old.  Not athletic.  Wow.  Did all that happen overnight?   Well, yes, it basically did.

Trading off Perkins hurt us on a lot of levels.  Even at half speed, Perkins anchors a defense.  As Doc FINALLY pointed out, it left us with a team that had basically been preset to preseason, as far as knowing each other was concerned.  What he chose not to point out was that it clearly torpedoed our famous 'ubuntu'.   And it killed our seeding. 

No, Perkins isn't a great center.  And now he's a hurting not-great-center.  But he DOES control the middle on defense, and he does set screens on offense, and a lot of centers DON'T EVEN DO THAT MUCH. 

And if you want to blame Perkins for Nowitski's breakout, never mind that N has been torching everyone, why not blame Chandler for Durant's 40 points?   When people want soooo badly to defend Danny, they have to clutch at straws.  Perkins elevated the Thunder.  Losing him wrecked us.  Not because he's a great player, but because he was necessary to us.

People continue to say 'if Shaq had been healthy'.  Sure.  A healthy Shaq was clearly better than Perkins.  He made our offense literally unstoppable.  When he was healthy, we were pretty much guaranteed a healthy lead in the first quarter against anyone.  But he wasn't healthy.  He was nowhere near it towards the end, and anyone who believed Danny's hype otherwise was being willfully delusional.  Trading Perkins left us with no starting center.  JO rose to the occasion.  That alone was a miracle.  Having him coming off the bench after Perk and playing like that would have been brilliant.

But what is stunning is the way everyone has gone fatalistic.  Rather than blame the obvious cause for our demise from championship frontrunners to championship onlookers, many of you choose to search desperately for other reasons.  As far as I can see, most people have been so deeply conditioned to worship authority that this is now second nature to them.  They will not question even the most obvious lies, from authority figures that are well known to lie freely (as when Danny and Doc assured us endlessly that KG was on the point of return, two years ago).

So it is with life in bizarro world.  I doubt if the Thunder will get past the Mavs.  Nowitski scoring at a 50ppg clip is just too high a mountain to climb, probably for any team other than the Heat.  But even if they do, some folks have already said that Perkins will deserve no part in the credit for such an achievement!!

Epic post. Loved it all, and agree 100%.

+1 to that...and another TP from me as well.

Loved the bolded part.

[moiso]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are.  There's no question that the Celtics imploded after The Trade, while the Thunder did a lot better.  But many of you would rather believe that we 'never had a chance' against the wondrous Heat, even though for much of this last season WE looked like the team to beat for the championship.

I actually think it was a bad trade tactically for both teams. The main reason it helped OKC is because it settled their rotation. Something their coach was always able to do, he just didn't do it. Perk was more of an asset in our system, where he knew it cold, and where his D in the middle made more of an impact. I still don't think we beat the Heat if you undo the trade, and I don't think he's adding much to OKC. Had OKC run into LAL he might have been an important factor, but they didn't. The Mavs are unconventional because of Dirk and that hurts Perk.

So I think for this season (which I value more than future seasons) it was a bad trade. Yet I also agree with the premise of this thread that Perk is not all right and not that much of a factor for OKC. You are constructing a false dichotomy. It's not either-or, it can be both or neither, and shades of gray.

Well why didn't Kristic settle their rotation?  Kristic is an average center. 

OKC might be better with Krstic in this series.  No one can defend Dirk anyway and at least he gives them some offense.

Dirk isn't the only one that has to be guarded.  Penetration has to be stopped too.  Kristic replacing Perk would make it even easier for guys like Barea to get to the rim.

[bbd24]

It's just amazing to read this stuff.  You guys are constructing a world where Danny Ainge can never be wrong, no matter how bizarre his antics are. 

What if you were in favor of trading Perk at the deadline before Ainge did it?

What PaulCowens fails to mention is what would happen if Perk stays, and you still lose with him ?  Perk guarantees nothing, and PaulCowens knows that.

If Perkins stayed and walked out the door after the season, then gets overpaid by some other team (a la OKC) and walks, then how do these posters feel about Ainge ?

How 'wrong' would Ainge be if he let that scenario happen ?

Cuts both ways.  If Ainge doesn't make the trade, and the C's lose with Perk, Boston hangs him (i.e. " you should of traded the damaged goods while you had the chance ").  If Ainge does make the trade, and they lose to the Heat as they did, Boston hangs him.

Its called a no win situation.

PaulCowens hangs him either way you look at it.