Doc reflects on the trade

[barefacedmonk]

Celtics coach Doc Rivers said Monday that the biggest fallout from the highly criticized mid-February trade that sent Kendrick Perkins to the Oklahoma City Thunder was the sudden lack of continuity between the new players and, that if he could go back, he would have waited until the end of the season to make the trade instead.

.....making that trade at the time we made that trade, that made it very tough for us.

Rivers suggested it was the on-the-court familiarity that hurt the Celtics the most. While the successful starting lineup of Rajon Rondo, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Perkins had been intact for the majority of the last four seasons, Perkins' departure had a trickle-down effect, eventually affecting the club's offense more than Rivers and Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge originally anticipated.

Link


I agree with all of that. You don't make so many changes in the middle of the season.

[theswitch]

I think there's one more comment he made that resonates the most, and it's how we weren't just integrating Green and Krstic - we were trying to get Arroyo, Murphy, Pavlovic up to speed as well. When a third of your roster hasn't gone through most of the season together, that's an issue.

[LooseCannon]

I wish the trade had been made last summer.

[Roy H.]

I think a lot of us were saying this was a big concern at the time of the trade.  As one particularly astute observer said:

I think that Danny is fooling himself if he thinks that the team won't miss a beat with these trades.  With the two new players, plus J.O. hopefully returning, plus up to three free agents joining the team, Doc will be asked to incorporate up to six new players.  He's going to have to do this in 26 games (or, in the case of free agents, in even less time).  We've heard Doc and various players say in the past that the Celtics sets aren't easy to learn, either on offense or defense.  It's going to be hard for these guys to become proficient in the Xs-and-Os of the system.  Even worse, though, the Celts will be losing that almost telepathic connection that comes from a lineup that has learned to play together.  Like a married couple that can finish each others' sentences, the Celtics have learned to cover for each other.  These are things that can't be taught.

Link

[theswitch]

I wish the trade had been made last summer.

Also agree heavily with this.

[barefacedmonk]

I think a lot of us were saying this was a big concern at the time of the trade.  As one particularly astute observer said:

I think that Danny is fooling himself if he thinks that the team won't miss a beat with these trades.  With the two new players, plus J.O. hopefully returning, plus up to three free agents joining the team, Doc will be asked to incorporate up to six new players.  He's going to have to do this in 26 games (or, in the case of free agents, in even less time).  We've heard Doc and various players say in the past that the Celtics sets aren't easy to learn, either on offense or defense.  It's going to be hard for these guys to become proficient in the Xs-and-Os of the system.  Even worse, though, the Celts will be losing that almost telepathic connection that comes from a lineup that has learned to play together.  Like a married couple that can finish each others' sentences, the Celtics have learned to cover for each other.  These are things that can't be taught.

Link

If you ever get tired of practicing law, a career at ESPN awaits...you'll have Greg Payne for company too.

[the_Bird]

Well, it's a little disingenuous because it wasn't like 'Gody and Nate or Semih has been around forever and were major parts of the rotation.  Even if The Trade was not made, *a trade* would have been, and they would have been adding guys like Dropkick and Pavlovic anyway just because of the injuries.  They turned over most of the roster, but not most of the rotation.

[Roy H.]

I like this quote:

. . . It was just a lot of moving parts to a team that the advantage that we had was that we had continuity, everybody else was new. Chicago was new and the Heat were new. They couldn't fall back on what we could fall back on with our starting five, and once we made that trade, we took that advantage away."

Doc nails it, unfortunately.

[KGs Knee]

Don't doubt Doc feels that way.  But what is the point for him to say it (again?).

It wasn't the only reason we're out now, but among the biggest.

[ben]

DISAGREE with Doc.  Dear Doc, let danny choose the players, Your job is to coach them and get them on the same page ! !  Please Doc, considering Rondo can pick apart a talented Knicks team with a single offensive set (game 3 i believe), It shouldn't be too hard to get these guys into the system.  No excuses Doc ! ! !  Your job isn't that hard! 


By the way, maybe Danny should hire a coach who has a voice box that still works.

[the_Bird]

I still come back to the biggest failure having been not signing a third guy (besides Pierce and Quis) who could have handled duties at the small forward.  That could have been TA.  That could have even been Scal (although not for the remainder of the season, after Quis went down).  Quis was a known injury risk, and they made the decision to *not* bring aboard someone else who could fill in if needed.  Certainly, the role of Von Wafer on this club was always questionable, and even moreso after Delonte became available.

Another backup SF on the roster since camp, no need to panic when Quis gets hurt.  

[Roy H.]

DISAGREE with Doc.  Dear Doc, let danny choose the players, Your job is to coach them and get them on the same page ! !  Please Doc, considering Rondo can pick apart a talented Knicks team with a single offensive set (game 3 i believe), It shouldn't be too hard to get these guys into the system.  No excuses Doc ! ! !  Your job isn't that hard! 

I think you might be underestimating the complexity of our offensive and defensive plays.  They're a lot to learn.  Doc had to throw out half the playbook, and I can't imagine that helped.

[mgent]

I like this quote:

. . . It was just a lot of moving parts to a team that the advantage that we had was that we had continuity, everybody else was new. Chicago was new and the Heat were new. They couldn't fall back on what we could fall back on with our starting five, and once we made that trade, we took that advantage away."

Doc nails it, unfortunately.

Duh.  We had BY FAR the longest tenured starting lineup in basketball.  Can you name one team that had the same lineup as last year, nevermind the last 4 years?  (Okay, the Lakers, but they only had Artest for 1 year and does constantly switching Odom and Bynum really count?)

[angryguy77]

This coming from a guy who just now admits Davis was playing bad because he had a contract on the brain. Well I would like to ask why he kept playing him then?

We were going to have new players regardless due to injuries.
What is the point of saying this?

Our supposed great chemistry didn't help us in the last few seconds of regulation in game 4. This is an excuse and nothing more.


There was enough time for these new players to assimilate. Maybe not 100%, but enough to work.
BTW Doc, how do we know these guys didn't fit in when you never let them see daylight??

[ben]

DISAGREE with Doc.  Dear Doc, let danny choose the players, Your job is to coach them and get them on the same page ! !  Please Doc, considering Rondo can pick apart a talented Knicks team with a single offensive set (game 3 i believe), It shouldn't be too hard to get these guys into the system.  No excuses Doc ! ! !  Your job isn't that hard! 

I think you might be underestimating the complexity of our offensive and defensive plays.  They're a lot to learn.  Doc had to throw out half the playbook, and I can't imagine that helped.

 Doc's offense this year included over 60 offensive sets.  Each offensive set has 4-5 options, sometimes more.  I am well aware of the complexity here.  If I were coach I would keep it more simple like red aurbach always said, "keep it simple".  

I have talked about this in my posts of the past, I feel that Doc throwing out half the playbook the day before the playoffs start is unproffesional.  He should have simplified the playbook AS SOON as the new players arrived from "THE TRADE".  Actually, the playbook doesn't have to be that complicated to begin with!  Like I said, considering Rondo can pick apart the Knicks defense with a SINGLE offensive set (Game 3), then Doc should keep it simple.  These guys are not rocket scientists, they are athletes.  

So i still believe Doc should not complain about new players not knowing his "amazing"(sarcasm) offensive sets, and just coach his team better.