What wins championships again?

[LB3533]

You have to have the right balance of veterans and youth, starters and bench guys, and ultimately offensive and defensive schemes.

[eugen]

I think to keep concentration during all the year. This year is the best example why I did not get another championship. After All star game, we lost the concentration dropping down from 1st place to 3 rd place. You can imagine: If we where at 1st place, after regular season, our trip till final game of Eastern Conference would have been so easy: 1st round Vs Indiana and 2nd round Vs Atlanta. So at least we had a chance to get easy to Eastern Final against Chicago or Miami, having advantage of playing 1st 2 games @ home. I think Cs are the best team in the NBA today (if you analyze the whole team we have for example 4 player at all star game), but unfortunately they did not express the best possible power. As I said before, the part of regular season after All Star game was critical for us, where we lost the concentration.

[ScoobyDoo]

TP to Mgent.

While I agree with the other comments, that talent, health, superstars, luck and coaching, so called "tough guys who bring a dirty nose and emotional inspiration due to their lunch pale attitudes" are also a hallmark of championship teams.

These types of players, whether it's at center or point guard - bring a certain pit bull mentality to a team that let's the other side know, there will be no backing down.

Take a look at every championship team since the 80's  -they've all had at least one guy like this, if not two. I'll take a quick look at most of them but will probably miss some.

Celtics: Bird, McHale were both nasty in their own way.
Lakers: AC Green, Cooper, Rambis
Pistons: Rodman, Mahorn, Laimbeer
Houston: Otis Thorpe
Bulls: Rodman / Horace Grant
Spurs: Bowen
Lakers: Shaq & Fisher - while Kobe, Horry and Fox were also cheap shot guys
Celtics: Posey, PJ, TA and Perk
Lakers: Fisher / Bynum

and my guess is the finals this year will be OKC and Chicago with Boozer and Noah and Perk and Mohammad - four guys who will give you a good shot when you come down the lane.

It's a mentality - even though Noah and Rose aren't brutes, they have pit bull mentalities re effort.

I think what Mgent said that it hasn't been replaced is key.

2009 - KG and Powe were out - so we missed our superstar and some additional toughness with Powe.

2010 - Rasheed, Perk and TA  brought it for us and outside of Perk going down, we probably raise #18.

2011 - we lost or traded away all our dirty work guys in Shaq, TA, Perk and even Harangody.

I would have loved to have seen us pick up Kurt Thomas for this team. He certainly would be more willing to lay some nice hits on people than Big Baby who seems adverse to real physical contact.

You need all elements for a championship but the one Mgent highlights is one fo the critical elements that I think we should seek to rectify for next year's run if we want to win.       

[GrandTheftRondo]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Could have sworn we had Doc and the big four during this last failed championship run. And the one before that 

[GrandTheftRondo]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

[guava_wrench]

Winning 16 playoff games wins championships.

Cliches get you nothing

[GreenEnvy]

If you trot out those four players with any one player in the world, coached by Tom T.... they mighttttt make the playoffs.

So I ask, what is your point?

In 2008, we were healthy and hungry. The Big Three were too good and all of our role players had defined roles.

[Jon]

Well, I think there's an outside shot they can make a run next year.  I think they definitely win Game 4 this year with a healthy Rondo (given the fact that they went to overtime, I don't see any argument to that) and I think they could've won Game 5 if he'd been healthy.  That would've put us up 3-2 going back to Boston, despite all the woes of Games 1 and 2. 

Still, that aside, I think we're going to need to draft well and quite frankly get a little lucky. 

Sure Red Auerbach made some great moves.  But all the great moves in the world wouldn't have helped had Russell and Bird not been available in those respective draft classes.  Same with Ainge and the Big Three.  Ainge did well to set himself up with assets to make those deals, but quite frankly there aren't many years when two teams are looking to deal away their franchise players at the same time.  Danny could've had those assets many other years and found no takers, at least not for the quality he got. 

So I think we're going to have to retain what youth we have (Rondo, Green, and probably Bradley) and hope they improve.  Then, I think we're going to have to get at least one future starter, if not star, out of the draft.  And then, quite frankly, we're likely going to have to find a way to get Dwight Howard or someone of the like to Boston. 

It's a tall order, which is why with the exception of us and the Heat and Pistons, no one besides the Bulls, Rockets, Lakers, and Spurs has won a title in the past 30 years. 

[Dunn]

This team also must have a healthy low post center or else we're wasting the big four's time.

[mgent]

If you trot out those four players with any one player in the world, coached by Tom T.... they mighttttt make the playoffs.

So I ask, what is your point?

In 2008, we were healthy and hungry. The Big Three were too good and all of our role players had defined roles.

That's because our role players complimented our main guys and played roles that actually helped us.  When it comes to the bench/role players the first focus has to be defense (Perk, Brown, Powe, TA, Posey) followed by rebounding (Perk, Brown, Powe) followed by long range shooting (House, Posey, Cassel).

Big Baby:  no rebounding, average defense, bad shooting
Green:  no rebounding, average defense
Krstic:  no rebounding, no defense
With West being the only sharpshooter to compliment Ray and Paul.

What it all comes down to is your role players doing the dirty work and letting your stars do the rest.  This is why the trade was an ABSOLUTE FAILURE the second it came across twitter.  Green can score the ball, but he's not one of our stars.  Perk could change the entire game without taking a SINGLE shot.  Green can ONLY affect the game by scoring, and to do so he has to steal shots from the Big 4.

Pure logic.  You can't give up all your toughness, hustle, intimidation, rebounding, and defense and expect a single scorer averaging 15 minutes to make everything better.

[jv2764]

A great offensive player will always be a great defensive player.  Its just the way it works hoops.  You need guys who can get you buckets.  When a great offensive player is in a zone I dont care who you put on him, he is going to score.

[BballTim]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

[zerophase]

Sometimes it's just luck. The league today is a much stronger league than it was yesterday. If you put that '08 team against Miami, they would have probably lost as well. There are just so many more powerhouses these days.

[Celticsfan336]

Wrong.

The execution of the big 4. not getting key injuries, and good coaching wins championships.

Celtics didnt have all that consistently.

[mc34]

I really miss these two.