What wins championships again?

[mgent]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

I'd say this year the Big 3 were as close to healthy as physically possible at their age.  I wouldn't say Rondo was an irreplaceable part of the championship run in 08, in fact I don't think the term Big 4 even existed back then, but even if it did, the injured Rondo from this year outplayed the 08 Rondo anyway.

[boscel33]

a decent trade and draft.  for the draft, i'm hoping for tavis leslie from uga or jordan williams from maryland. 

[SHAQATTACK]

CP3 + D12 = No. 18

[LB3533]

Health, superstar play and defense!

[EJPLAYA]

CP3 + D12 = No. 18

Good luck to whomever lands those two, because D12 is sure not walking through those doors. The guy hates the Celtics.

[BballTim]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

I'd say this year the Big 3 were as close to healthy as physically possible at their age.  I wouldn't say Rondo was an irreplaceable part of the championship run in 08, in fact I don't think the term Big 4 even existed back then, but even if it did, the injured Rondo from this year outplayed the 08 Rondo anyway.

  Yes, change the discussion to exclude Rondo if it helps you in the argument.

  Rondo sprained his ankle in the finals in 08 and was limited in three of the games. In his 3 healthy games he put up 15/5/7, 4/6/16 (with 1 turnover) and 21/7/8 with 6 steals. I don't know that I'd really say that 10/2/5 or 6/2/3 would normally be seen as outplaying those numbers, clearly you disagree.

[Papatrichs]

man hugs.

[jc3celticsphan]

Defense! Defense! Defense!. A front court. Of kg and howard will win us a championship

[RockinRyA]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

I'd say this year the Big 3 were as close to healthy as physically possible at their age.  I wouldn't say Rondo was an irreplaceable part of the championship run in 08, in fact I don't think the term Big 4 even existed back then, but even if it did, the injured Rondo from this year outplayed the 08 Rondo anyway.

I think mgent is discounting the fact that the Big 3 are a few years older than what they had a few seasons ago. They need help, they can't carry the team on their back like they did before. Rondo is supposed to make up for what the Big 3 lost, but can't help it, he was injured as well.

I am disappointed in the result, but the effort was clearly there and I can say im proud of the Cs even if they lost.

[dlpin]

Tony Allen played 65 minutes in the playoffs the year the celtics won it all.
Powe? 11 minutes per game. And now he can't even crack the rotation on the cavs.
James Posey was great, but is old and done.
Thibs? Great. But I would love to know which GM could prevent an assistant from landing a desirable head coaching job.

In the heat series, the difference wasn't the role players, or even the assistant coaches. The difference is that Lebron and Wade are now far, far superior to Pierce and Allen.

[chambers]

So if the Mavs, Bulls or Heat win a championship..who are the tough guys that played key roles?

chicago: Bogans MAYBE Kurt Thomas for the 5 minutes he's been on the floor in the playoffs?

Miami: ummm Juwan Howard for the 5 minutes he was on when Joel Anthony was in foul trouble?
Joel Anthony.
Haslem, who hasn't played for most of the season and none of the playoffs?

Dallas: hmmmm Peja? Barea?

The whole 'tough guy' thing is overrated.

Unfortunately a lot of fans cling to the idea that the 2008 team is what you must have in order to win.
The problem is that everyone ignores the fact that the big 3 are just too old. We need elite bench guys to back up these elite players in their fading states- not tough role players anymore.  Delonte is tough, but that toughness comes with an incredible scoring and defensive ability.

Tony Allen and Leon Powe just wouldn't cut it this year.
The competition is WAY better than 2008.
Perkins bum leg and him hopping around on OKC is enough evidence for me to realize he wasn't what was missing- he was nice but the outcome of our season is still the same with him in the lineup instead of JO.

Injuries are what killed this team.
We needed Shaq, we needed Delonte, JO and Marquis when they went down. We lost home court advantage because of these injuries and the exhaustion which our starting core went through playing extreme minutes to try and hold our standing at the top of the East.
I would go as far to say that this team could've won 3 straight or 3 out of 4 years had they gotten luckier with injuries on the whole. I normally don't like to speculate but the talent was definitely there.

[bfrombleacher]

In the heat series, the difference wasn't the role players, or even the assistant coaches. The difference is that Lebron and Wade are now far, far superior to Pierce and Allen.

The difference is the refs, who took the fight out of us totally.

[Moranis]

lol people just cant get over the nostalgia of our last championship and think the only way we'll ever win it all again is to build the EXACT same team....

In my mind without crippling injuries over the past 2 seasons we're looking at the celtics winning 2 of the last 3 or 4 championships and I think that's a fair analysis

And if Bynum isn't hurt the Celtics might not have won the one it won.  Injuries happen.

[mgent]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

I'd say this year the Big 3 were as close to healthy as physically possible at their age.  I wouldn't say Rondo was an irreplaceable part of the championship run in 08, in fact I don't think the term Big 4 even existed back then, but even if it did, the injured Rondo from this year outplayed the 08 Rondo anyway.

  Yes, change the discussion to exclude Rondo if it helps you in the argument.

  Rondo sprained his ankle in the finals in 08 and was limited in three of the games. In his 3 healthy games he put up 15/5/7, 4/6/16 (with 1 turnover) and 21/7/8 with 6 steals. I don't know that I'd really say that 10/2/5 or 6/2/3 would normally be seen as outplaying those numbers, clearly you disagree.

I'm not changing anything... that's the way it was.  Are you really saying Rondo's role in 08 was comparable to the Big 3's?

In 08 he averaged 10/4/6 on 40% shooting.
This year he averaged 14/5/9 on 47% shooting.

[BballTim]

  Yeah, it had nothing to do with Doc and the big four.

Yeah, because that's what I said.

The day the 5 of them win it by themselves I'll take this post back.

What BballTim is saying is that all those other pieces were replaceable/interchangeable, not the Big 4 and Doc

If that was the case we would have won last year...and this year too. The other pieces are obviously not that easily replaceable.

  Obviously I meant healthy versions of the big four. If we had those we could easily be trying for four straight this year.

I'd say this year the Big 3 were as close to healthy as physically possible at their age.  I wouldn't say Rondo was an irreplaceable part of the championship run in 08, in fact I don't think the term Big 4 even existed back then, but even if it did, the injured Rondo from this year outplayed the 08 Rondo anyway.

  Yes, change the discussion to exclude Rondo if it helps you in the argument.

  Rondo sprained his ankle in the finals in 08 and was limited in three of the games. In his 3 healthy games he put up 15/5/7, 4/6/16 (with 1 turnover) and 21/7/8 with 6 steals. I don't know that I'd really say that 10/2/5 or 6/2/3 would normally be seen as outplaying those numbers, clearly you disagree.

I'm not changing anything... that's the way it was.  Are you really saying Rondo's role in 08 was comparable to the Big 3's?

  I'm saying we went from discussing the big four to discussing the big three because it fits your argument better.