Submit Your Chris Paul Ideas Here

[pearljammer10]

I am trying to remain calm. But I couldn't disagree more with some things being said about Chris Paul.

Rajon Rondo's ceiling is Chris Paul.

  Rondo's a better defender and rebounder than Paul and arguably a better passer and ballhandler. Why would Chris Paul be Rondo's ceiling?

  Hope I didn't get you overly excited, btw.

Chris Paul is above Rondo's ceiling.  Rondo will never be the shooter Paul is.  

The rest, they are very similar.  Similar defender, passer and rebounders. 

  Rondo really doesn't have to be as good a shooter as CP3 to be a better player, just a decent shooter and foul shooter. He's better at getting to the rim, better rebounder, better defender and probably a better passer.

Compare Chris Paul to Rondo when they are both fully healthy and Chris Paul destroys Rondo in just about everything.  

Except championship rings, playoff experience, and wins... 


This doesnt make any sense to me still. someone claimed paul, allen, pierce, kg, kristic, and west would be a championship team.... But, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, KG, JO with Green, West, and Kristic is a much better team with more depth. There is absolutely no reason to trade for Chris Paul.

[StartOrien]

Fair enough--I don't agree with it but you have demonstrated that others are of the same opinion as you.  Winning close games - last minute heroics by Ray and Paul tell me this was not the case until the Miami series--where a healthy Rondo?  We will never know.

The Celtics were the second worst team in the league on last second shots to tie/win trailing only the heat, and they lost an incredible amount of leads when they were up by double digits. While we won't definitively know, statistics stills how this as an area for concern.

[StartOrien]

Except championship rings, playoff experience, and wins...  

Does that make Leon Powe a better player than Chris Paul as well?

You'd have a point if we could look at Chris Paul and see him either not playing or not performing well in the playoffs, but that's just not in the case. He's an incredible player, and he's performed above his own incredible standard in the post season.

You can't blame him for having a significantly inferior cast than the one Rondo has. Particularly when Rondo didn't play much against the Lakers when they did win it all.

I feel like I need to clarify - I think Rondo is a terrific PG, somewhere around top 5 - but I think Chris Paul is far superior, and is a terrific fit for this current team.

[BballTim]

From Henry Abbot's article about Kobe not being "clutch"

In the final 24 seconds of close games the Lakers offense regresses horribly, managing just 82 points per 100 possessions. And it's not a simple case of every team having a hard time scoring in crunch time. Over Bryant's career, 11 teams have had better crunch-time offenses, led by the Hornets with a shocking 107 points per 100 possessions in crunch time, a huge credit to Chris Paul.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

  First of all, you said he performs nearly flawlessly down the stretch, what's being discussed here is final possession only. One would think that how he performs over the last few minutes is also important. Secondly, while he does imply that Chris Paul is good on the last possession, he's talking about the Hornets over Bryant's career, so CP3 was only on the team for 40% of that time.

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is not better than Rondo in every aspect. All this Rondo hate is getting annoying. I think Paul is the best point guard in the NBA, but give Rondo his due

Paul's strengths:
-Can dominate a game by scoring
-Consistency
-Doesn't disappear in games
-Can take people off the dribble better
-Near perfect execution down the stretch

Rondo's strengths:
-Rebounds better
-Walking triple double
-Better perimeter defender

  Paul's 39% from the field and 27% on threes in the clutch are both well below average, not sure I'd call that "near perfect execution". Oh, and he gets to the rim less often than Rondo, not sure he's really better at taking people off the dribble.

Kobe Bryant 40.2%, 35.1%
Derrick Rose 40.2%, 20.0%
Lebron James 43.6%, 23.8%
Dirk Nowitzki 45.8%, 12.5%
Kevin Durant 40.6%, 29.0%
Dwyane Wade 39.7%, 42.9%

No one performs well in the clutch, but Paul is certainly in the same general range as the other elite players in the league.

For good measure here is Paul Pierce 42.5%, 23.8%

  In other words, Paul wasn't too far below average for those stars, but I don't know if "near perfect execution" is an apt description.

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is a superior player to Rondo in every aspect of the game. If the trade presents itself, you trade Rondo in a heartbeat.

  This from a guy who thinks Delonte is a much better pg than Rondo.

OK, well, I think Rondo is a much better PG than Delonte, but I also think Chris Paul is on another level from Rondo.  If you can make that trade, then you do it. 

  I'd agree that Paul is a better player than Rondo, but certainly not better in every aspect of the game.

Fair enough.  But I am not sure that matters.  Basketball is not an individuals skill contest.  It is about who plays basketball better, and that is Chris Paul.

  I agree it's not a skills contest, but it's overall contribution that matters. Going outside the Rondo/Paul debate, people who contribute less to an offense's success than Rondo are always considered better offensive players than Rondo by many here.

[Chris]

Chris Paul is a superior player to Rondo in every aspect of the game. If the trade presents itself, you trade Rondo in a heartbeat.

  This from a guy who thinks Delonte is a much better pg than Rondo.

OK, well, I think Rondo is a much better PG than Delonte, but I also think Chris Paul is on another level from Rondo.  If you can make that trade, then you do it. 

  I'd agree that Paul is a better player than Rondo, but certainly not better in every aspect of the game.

Fair enough.  But I am not sure that matters.  Basketball is not an individuals skill contest.  It is about who plays basketball better, and that is Chris Paul.

  I agree it's not a skills contest, but it's overall contribution that matters. Going outside the Rondo/Paul debate, people who contribute less to an offense's success than Rondo are always considered better offensive players than Rondo by many here.

While I don't necessarily disagree (we have some wide ranging opinions on this forum, just like most forums), can you give some examples (not of posters, but of players who people think are better offensive players than Rondo)?

[wdleehi]

How is Paul a lesser player defensively?  All defense 1st team once.  2nd team twice.  Lead the league in steal all but two of his seasons. 

How is he a lesser passer?  Top Assist to TO last two year.  Never less then 3rd.  Rondo highest was this year, 4th. 


Rondo, 4th best PG.

Paul, best PG.

[BballTim]

Chris Paul is a superior player to Rondo in every aspect of the game. If the trade presents itself, you trade Rondo in a heartbeat.

  This from a guy who thinks Delonte is a much better pg than Rondo.

OK, well, I think Rondo is a much better PG than Delonte, but I also think Chris Paul is on another level from Rondo.  If you can make that trade, then you do it. 

  I'd agree that Paul is a better player than Rondo, but certainly not better in every aspect of the game.

Fair enough.  But I am not sure that matters.  Basketball is not an individuals skill contest.  It is about who plays basketball better, and that is Chris Paul.

  I agree it's not a skills contest, but it's overall contribution that matters. Going outside the Rondo/Paul debate, people who contribute less to an offense's success than Rondo are always considered better offensive players than Rondo by many here.

While I don't necessarily disagree (we have some wide ranging opinions on this forum, just like most forums), can you give some examples (not of posters, but of players who people think are better offensive players than Rondo)?

  I'm not going to search through old posts, but off the top of my head I'd start with Delonte and Felton, Eddie House and Nate Robinson on the list of players who could, according to some, replace Rondo without any dropoff on the offensive end.

[The DarkPassenger]

If the Celtics attempt to land CP3 then they will have to give up a lot I would think and then if you get him is it a guarantee that he signs with Boston past 2012?

So we could put ourselves in some danger and renting CP3 for a season and then losing him to free agency and the NYK. Then we'd have no PG.

CP3 is an amazing PG and one of the best if not the best in the league but Rondo works for our system and will continue to get better.

[BballTim]

How is Paul a lesser player defensively?  All defense 1st team once.  2nd team twice.  Lead the league in steal all but two of his seasons. 

  Rondo's all-defense first team twice, 2nd team once in 1 less years in the league. First team both of the last 2 years, getting more votes in both years than CP3 did in his first team year. Finished higher in DPOY voting in both of the last 2 years than CP3 ever has. I'd start there with my comparison.

[wdleehi]

How is Paul a lesser player defensively?  All defense 1st team once.  2nd team twice.  Lead the league in steal all but two of his seasons. 

  Rondo's all-defense first team twice, 2nd team once in 1 less years in the league. First team both of the last 2 years, getting more votes in both years than CP3 did in his first team year. Finished higher in DPOY voting in both of the last 2 years than CP3 ever has. I'd start there with my comparison.

So we are talking about the top two defensive PGs in the league.  One just happens to play next to KG, the other not. 


Not a big difference in defense.


So

Paul better
shooter (a lot)
scorer  (a lot)
passer  (a little)

Rondo better
rebounder (little)
defender (little)



Leadership.  Paul has been the leader of his team.  Rondo has not had the opportunity. 

Clutch situations.  Ball is in Paul's hands.  Ball is not usually in Rondo's hands.


Vs. Lakers.  Rondo neutralized.  Paul destroys. 


Teammates.  Rondo has the big three.  Paul usually has West. 

[StartOrien]

I think its tough to use any DPOY and All NBA defense to support an argument. It's the gold glove of the NBA.

[wdleehi]

One last thing.



NBA player that wants to play with them


Rondo  -  Mayo


Paul  -  Howard.

[Chris]

Chris Paul is a superior player to Rondo in every aspect of the game. If the trade presents itself, you trade Rondo in a heartbeat.

  This from a guy who thinks Delonte is a much better pg than Rondo.

OK, well, I think Rondo is a much better PG than Delonte, but I also think Chris Paul is on another level from Rondo.  If you can make that trade, then you do it. 

  I'd agree that Paul is a better player than Rondo, but certainly not better in every aspect of the game.

Fair enough.  But I am not sure that matters.  Basketball is not an individuals skill contest.  It is about who plays basketball better, and that is Chris Paul.

  I agree it's not a skills contest, but it's overall contribution that matters. Going outside the Rondo/Paul debate, people who contribute less to an offense's success than Rondo are always considered better offensive players than Rondo by many here.

While I don't necessarily disagree (we have some wide ranging opinions on this forum, just like most forums), can you give some examples (not of posters, but of players who people think are better offensive players than Rondo)?

  I'm not going to search through old posts, but off the top of my head I'd start with Delonte and Felton, Eddie House and Nate Robinson on the list of players who could, according to some, replace Rondo without any dropoff on the offensive end.

Ah, well, what I would tell you then, is to stop putting much stock in the posts of people who go to the extremes like that.